USS Theodore Roosevelt

[305swag]

1 hour ago, 11bee said:

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm becoming less concerned about the virus and more concerned about the economy.  Some of you as full time military or retirees don't have to worry as this as much as others do.   I'm still working full time (as is my wife) and together we do pretty well.   That being said, my company has seen a large drop in business and have already started some significant RIF's. I've made the cut so far but if things don't start picking up within a month or so, I'm not optimistic about my future.  

 

I get that we need to be doing what we are currently doing.  However, there has to be an end game and it has to get implemented, (at least partially) pretty damned soon.  Otherwise, the cure may end up being worse than the disease, or to use a saying from the Vietnam War - in order to save the village, we had to destroy it.

 

Plus, I know how badly GW needs to get that haircut and take his RAV4 to the car wash. 

 

On a side note, regarding the TR saga - WSJ had a report last week that stated the virus didn't get onto the ship during it's port call in Vietnam, it came aboard with some members of the air wing.  

 

 

I’m glad you woke up😎 you don’t want the cure to be worse then the disease. I’m working full time to but getting slow as customers cut back. At some point you got to keep on living and deal with it the best you can. This virus is here to stay, vaccine or not.

[GW8345]

1 minute ago, nspreitler said:

She didn't say that at all, but I'm sure you heard what you want to hear.  What she said was cases assumed to be COVID related would be counted even without a positive test.  With tests being hard to get doctors don't want to waste them on people who are already dead.  

 

Being far away from combat is the very definition of REMF.   There is a forward echelon, and that's typically not Sailors.  What you did had an element of danger, no more than many others though.  We can all tell stories about things we've seen, like driving with night vision or rail loading armored vehicles.   Thank you for your service.  

 

You have no rank, you have no authority, you are a civilian.  Most people who retire accept that, and move on.   

 

 

How do we know that they died due to CV19 if they were never tested and without an autopsy being done there is no way of knowing what the real cause of death was so why put it down as the virus?

 

So, civilian's have no authority, guess I don't have to listen to anything my local and state gov't officials direct. Hell, the police are civilians so I don't have to listen to them either.

 

Kind of funny how the carrier is usually the first one on the scene for just about every conflict in the past 30 years. I don't recall the Army being there before us when Desert Shield started, or being the first to engage the iraqi's during DS, or being in Libya, or bombing Lebanon, or bombing Yugoslavia, or being the first into Syria, or going into Iraq the second time before the USAF/USN/USMC bombed the crap out of them.

 

I accept I'm a military retiree, it doesn't mean I'm better than anyone else, just means I'm different.

[habu2]

I hope I haven't given the impression that stay at home is more important than the economy.  But understand it's not an "all or nothing" situation. There ARE essential businesses open.  And some non-essential businesses have adapted to the situation by shifting their business model.  Many clothing manufacturers have transitioned to making masks and other PPE.  Automotive giant GM is making ventilator parts.  Restaurants are offering take-out and delivery services.  These businesses are grabbing the bull by the horns, not sitting at home crying "oh woe is me".  But the very fact is if we as a race don't take effective measures to slow the spread of this virus there will be no people to rebuild our economy.  Re-opening everything (barber shops and car washes included) before the spread of the virus is controlled in the name of "saving the economy" will ensure the spread continues, the deaths mount, and the economy sinks even further.  If you think the current effect on the economy is bad (and it is) then imagine the effect when a second wave overwhelms our already strained healthcare systems and even more businesses close, even more people lose their jobs and - yes - even more people die.  

 

We do what we have to do so that we CAN re-open businesses and rebuild the economy.  We as a people, we as a nation, don't do it because we want to put people out of work or put them in financial ruin.  (a lot of people seem to do a fine job of that themselves without a pandemic)  By managing the spread of the disease we can move towards re-opening the economy gradually, in steps.  This "gated" approach you hear talked about is exactly how most companies manage programs - especially defense programs. You don't proceed to  the next level until you have met the criteria of the current level. Once you meet those criteria you "pass through the gate" to the next level.  To relate it to aviation, it's like a flight test program.  You don't fly Card 8 before you successfully fly Card 7.  That process had worked for companies that have helped sustain and grow our economy for decades.  They might just be on to something when it comes to figuring out how to turn the economy around.

 

Life is no fun without taking some risks. But living isn't about taking risks, living and staying alive is about managing risk.  This shutdown, and the unavoidable impact to our economy, is about managing that risk.  We would all be better off if this crisis were managed on those terms rather than on, say, an election cycle.

[GW8345]

1 hour ago, Whiskey said:

 

 

Are those California plates?

[ChernayaAkula]

9 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

<....> Over 22 million American's lost their jobs in the past 3-4 weeks, @40K have died from the Chinese Virus, that's 550 Americans for every one death, who is the many and who's the few/one?

 "The many" are out of a job. That's temporary.

"The few" (if you want to call 40,000 few) are dead. That's permanent.

 

Do you get the difference? 

 

12 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

<...> Please tell me where it says in the Constitution that we can suspend the First Amendment due to a virus. <...>

 

The people who wrote the Constitution didn't know what the eff a virus is! 

Stop kidnapping the past to justify your shitty points. The very fact that there is the possibility of an Amendment should tell you that the fathers of the Constitution knew very well that history wouldn't end with them, that there would be new challenges and new knowledge. 

[habu2]

24 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Ah, so I don't agree with your point of view automatically makes me an uninformed bad person, how tolerant of you.

 

I didn't say that.   I said it shows where you get your information.  I didn't say you were uninformed and I didn't say you were a bad person.  Those are your words.

 

It's not that I don't agree with you, it's that I'm saddened and disappointed by your inflexible, narrow minded and self-centered view of a worldwide problem.

 

[GW8345]

Just now, ChernayaAkula said:

 "The many" are out of a job. That's temporary.

"The few" (if you want to call 40,000 few) are dead. That's permanent.

 

Do you get the difference? 

 

 

The people who wrote the Constitution didn't know what the eff a virus is! 

Stop kidnapping the past to justify your shitty points. The very fact that there is the possibility of an Amendment should tell you that the fathers of the Constitution knew very well that history wouldn't end with them, that there would be new challenges and new knowledge. 

The small business that have closed permanently, never to reopen, are not "temporary".

 

And I guess they didn't have smallpox, malaria, tuberculosis, pneumonia, influenza, rickets, and yellow fever back in the 1700's, that's why the average life span was only 25 years.

 

Educate yourself;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_in_colonial_America

[nspreitler]

5 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

How do we know that they died due to CV19 if they were never tested and without an autopsy being done there is no way of knowing what the real cause of death was so why put it down as the virus?

 

So, civilian's have no authority, guess I don't have to listen to anything my local and state gov't officials direct. Hell, the police are civilians so I don't have to listen to them either.

 

Kind of funny how the carrier is usually the first one on the scene for just about every conflict in the past 30 years. I don't recall the Army being there before us when Desert Shield started, or being the first to engage the iraqi's during DS, or being in Libya, or bombing Lebanon, or bombing Yugoslavia, or being the first into Syria, or going into Iraq the second time before the USAF/USN/USMC bombed the crap out of them.

 

I accept I'm a military retiree, it doesn't mean I'm better than anyone else, just means I'm different.

It's a medical opinion, if they had symptoms of COVID they most likely died from COVID.   

 

You have no military authority, try using that Chief rank to give an order sometime.  

 

As far as DS, the Army was on the ground long before shots were fired, they were also in Iraq the 2nd time and the 3rd time. I was in Iraq for OIF, OND, and OIR.  I also deployed this year when the balloon went up on New Years Eve and I was on a plane few days later.   You were on a ship hundreds of miles away from any actual combat.  Your pilots were in combat, you weren't.  You like the term REMF, that's what you were though.   Your job was important, and you should be proud of what you did but don't pretend it was something it wasn't.  

[GW8345]

1 minute ago, habu2 said:

 

I didn't say that.   I said it shows where you get your information.  I didn't say you were uninformed and I didn't say you were a bad person.  Those are your words.

 

It's not that I don't agree with you, it's that I'm saddened and disappointed by your inflexible, narrow minded and self-centered view of a worldwide problem.

 

So if I don't view things the exactly like you I'm nflexible, narrow minded and self-centered, again, how tolerant of you.

[habu2]

And just for the record, I do live in Texas, and I have two trucks.  The newest one is an '02 Tacoma I've owned for 14+ years, the other is a '97 Nissan I picked up for $400 and got it running again for the cost of a new battery and a brake switch.

 

Musically I tend to listen to southern blues/rock.  SRV, Hendrix, Allmann Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Led Zep....

[GW8345]

3 minutes ago, nspreitler said:

It's a medical opinion, if they had symptoms of COVID they most likely died from COVID.   

 

You have no military authority, try using that Chief rank to give an order sometime.  

 

As far as DS, the Army was on the ground long before shots were fired, they were also in Iraq the 2nd time and the 3rd time. I was in Iraq for OIF, OND, and OIR.  I also deployed this year when the balloon went up on New Years Eve and I was on a plane few days later.   You were on a ship hundreds of miles away from any actual combat.  Your pilots were in combat, you weren't.  You like the term REMF, that's what you were though.   Your job was important, and you should be proud of what you did but don't pretend it was something it wasn't.  

Never said I had authority to issue an order, that's your thinking.

 

Yes, the USA was on the ground before the shooting started in DS, and they watched the fireworks for 40 days before they went in.

[habu2]

3 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

So if I don't view things the exactly like you I'm nflexible, narrow minded and self-centered, again, how tolerant of you.

 

Again, I didn't say that we don't have different viewpoints, you said that.  I can be disappointed in your views whether they are they same - or different - than my own.

 

Are you intentionally trying to pick a fight?  Or is literacy just not your thing?

[GW8345]

9 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

 I'm saddened and disappointed by your inflexible, narrow minded and self-centered view of a worldwide problem.

 

 

1 minute ago, habu2 said:

 

Again, I didn't say that we don't have different viewpoints, you said that.  I can be disappointed in your views whether they are they same - or different - than my own.

 

Are you intentionally trying to pick a fight?  Or is literacy just not your thing?

Again, I don't view "worldwide problem" like you so I'm inflexible, narrow minded and self-centered.

[ChernayaAkula]

3 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

The small business that have closed permanently, never to reopen, are not "temporary".

 

Businesses can be rebuilt. Lives lost cannot. Do you get the difference?

 

3 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

And I guess they didn't have smallpox, malaria, tuberculosis, pneumonia, influenza, rickets, and yellow fever back in the 1700's, that's why the average life span was only 25 years.

 

Educate yourself;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_in_colonial_America

 

And you learn to read. I never said they didn't have infectious diseases.

They didn't know what the heck a virus is. The concept of a virus was described about a century later. You go educate yourself.

 

And still the fathers of the Constitution made it possible to have amendments to face new challengs and incorporate new knowledge. Stop kidnapping them to make your flawed points.

[nspreitler]

Just now, GW8345 said:

Never said I had authority to issue an order, that's your thinking.

 

Yes, the USA was on the ground before the shooting started in DS, and they watched the fireworks for 40 days before they went in.

 

So that Chief rank is nothing, meaning you are a civilian. 

 

The Army did go in, did you?  Were you there for OEF, OIF, OND, OIR, or OFS.  Thanks for loading bombs, I requested a lot of them in OIR.   Mostly they were coming off USAF aircraft, but there were some F-18s occasionally.  

[ChernayaAkula]

13 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

The small business that have closed permanently, never to reopen, are not "temporary".

 

Businesses can be rebuilt. Lives lost cannot. Do you get the difference?

 

13 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

And I guess they didn't have smallpox, malaria, tuberculosis, pneumonia, influenza, rickets, and yellow fever back in the 1700's, that's why the average life span was only 25 years.

 

Educate yourself;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease_in_colonial_America

 

And you learn to read. I never said they didn't have infectious diseases.

They didn't know what the heck a virus is. The concept of a virus was described about a century later. You go educate yourself.

 

And still the fathers of the Constitution made it possible to have amendments to face new challenges and incorporate new knowledge. Stop kidnapping them to make your flawed points.

Edited April 19, 2020 by ChernayaAkula

[habu2]

1 minute ago, GW8345 said:

 

Again, I don't view "worldwide problem" like you so I'm inflexible, narrow minded and self-centered.

 

Again, your words, not mine.  If that's how you want to view yourself - and have others view you - that's your choice.  And your First Amendment Right. 

[GW8345]

Just now, nspreitler said:

 

So that Chief rank is nothing, meaning you are a civilian. 

 

The Army did go in, did you?  Were you there for OEF, OIF, OND, OIR, or OFS.  Thanks for loading bombs, I requested a lot of them in OIR.   Mostly they were coming off USAF aircraft, but there were some F-18s occasionally.  

I was on shore duty during the initial phases of OEF/OIF and retired shortly after they started.

 

 

[habu2]

2 minutes ago, ChernayaAkula said:

I never said they didn't have infectious diseases.  They didn't know what the heck a virus is.

 

Yeah we all got a little smarter about viruses and pandemics in the past 300+ years.  🙂

 

Well, most of us anyway.....

[GW8345]

5 minutes ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

Businesses can be rebuilt. Lives lost cannot. Do you get the difference?

 

 

And you learn to read. I never said they didn't have infectious diseases.

They didn't know what the heck a virus is. The concept of a virus was described about a century later. You go educate yourself.

 

And still the fathers of the Constitution made it possible to have amendments to face new challengs and incorporate new knowledge. Stop kidnapping them to make your flawed points.

You go up to those small business owners and tell them that their life's work can be rebuilt and that they can always get a new house and rebuild their lives.

 

So, what Amendments have been added to allow the state and local gov't the power to prevent people from going to church?

[nspreitler]

1 minute ago, GW8345 said:

I was on shore duty during the initial phases of OEF/OIF and retired shortly after they started.

 

 

You were on shore duty, so you sat those out?  Were you there for DS or did you miss that one too?   I'm really amused by the REMF comment now.  

[GW8345]

6 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

Again, your words, not mine.  If that's how you want to view yourself - and have others view you - that's your choice.  And your First Amendment Right. 

Nope, your words, your view, I'm just repeating what you wrote.

[305swag]

Never let a crisis go to waste.

[GW8345]

Just now, nspreitler said:

You were on shore duty, so you sat those out?  Were you there for DS or did you miss that one too?   I'm really amused by the REMF comment now.  

I was out there for Desert Shield and Desert Storm.

 

You obviously don't know how Navy sea/shore rotations work, you can't just go jump on the first boat and ride it into battle when every you want to.

[GW8345]

3 minutes ago, nspreitler said:

You were on shore duty, so you sat those out?  Were you there for DS or did you miss that one too?   I'm really amused by the REMF comment now.  

So what did you do in OEF/OIF and all the others?