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Good Airbrush to Replace my Aztec


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Anyone tried the BORDER "Black Flame" airbrushes yet ? They were sold a year back on ebay from China for cheap, than went missing only to reappear in Australia with Amodeler/BNA modelworld for twice the price. Still pissed about that because i was aiming to buy one before the pricetag blew out of proportions.

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7 hours ago, Thommo said:

 

I replaced my Aztec with the HP-CP.  Like chalk & cheese, the Iwata is so much easier to use & clean.  A much much more consistent airbrush.

 

But still not fool-proof.  I find different colours of paint spray better or worse.  I mostly use Tamiya acrylics with either Tamiya Acrylic thinner,  Tamiya lacquer thinner,  or lately Mr Color Leveling thinner.  The performance can very a lot depending on the colour/thinner combination, but even at its worst, it is better than the Aztec.

 

Sometimes I use enamels (Testors/Model Master) and find they spray much more consistently than acrylics.

 

I've long felt that we Aztec users are a stubborn bunch.  You either love or hate the Aztec. I've probably been using mine since the late 80s. It finally packed it in a few years ago and I wound up buying two new Aztec brushes at Michaels, on discount for $40.00 each. Around the same time a friend's Aztec also packed it in. He also purchased a few Aztec's on clearance. He was first to experience a failure, the new brushes were leaking internally. I found a way to disassembly them and repair the leak, but obviously quality suffered along the way. Last week as I was spraying I had another leak coming out the back of my Aztec, down my gloves and up my wrist. That was it! I wasn't fixing it again.

 

I spray Mr. Color and Mr. Paint, so I hope I am able to spray these as flawlessly as before. I am also looking forward to hopefully spraying tighter lines on Luftwaffe aircraft.

 

Two other friends of mine also used the Aztec for a long period of time, one being Brett Green and the other Spencer Pollard. I hear Spencer used to just switch colors on the fly in his brush. A few other friends of mine witnessed this in action in his hobby room. I think both retired their Aztec's.

 

Again, to the ARC modelling family, thanks for all the replies. I'm making the break. I am about to finish my coffee, jump in the truck, and drive to my appointment at the Airbrush store!

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5 hours ago, Scooby said:

 

I've long felt that we Aztec users are a stubborn bunch.  You either love or hate the Aztec. I've probably been using mine since the late 80s. It finally packed it in a few years ago and I wound up buying two new Aztec brushes at Michaels, on discount for $40.00 each. Around the same time a friend's Aztec also packed it in. He also purchased a few Aztec's on clearance. He was first to experience a failure, the new brushes were leaking internally. I found a way to disassembly them and repair the leak, but obviously quality suffered along the way. Last week as I was spraying I had another leak coming out the back of my Aztec, down my gloves and up my wrist. That was it! I wasn't fixing it again.

 

I spray Mr. Color and Mr. Paint, so I hope I am able to spray these as flawlessly as before. I am also looking forward to hopefully spraying tighter lines on Luftwaffe aircraft.

 

Two other friends of mine also used the Aztec for a long period of time, one being Brett Green and the other Spencer Pollard. I hear Spencer used to just switch colors on the fly in his brush. A few other friends of mine witnessed this in action in his hobby room. I think both retired their Aztec's.

 

Again, to the ARC modelling family, thanks for all the replies. I'm making the break. I am about to finish my coffee, jump in the truck, and drive to my appointment at the Airbrush store!

 

I persisted with my Aztec for over 10yrs, but as it was my first ever a/b, I had nothing to compare it to.  I was always pulling it apart (voiding the warranty), cleaning & rebuilding to get it to work.  So much paint accumulated right down the body it was ridiculous. I also had one replaced because the trigger mechanism broke.

 

I watched many of Brett Greens videos and could never figure out how his worked so consistently (maybe it actually didn't?).

 

The Iwata is made so much better, it's not funny.  And much easier to trouble shoot.  The only minor problem I've had with mine is a sticky trigger.  Also, I find if you clean the colour cup out with tissue paper, you eventually get little fibres of tissue blocking the needle nozzle.  Better to use a piece of old t-shirt.  When you take it apart, you can really appreciate the quality engineering, unlike with the Aztec.

 

I've had mine about 5yrs now and it's still going well, though I suspect might do better with a new needle.

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On 4/9/2020 at 7:40 AM, viper730 said:

I use to do this with the needles til I found a tool called sharpenair. I ding my needles all the time sometimes pretty badly. It is a Money saver for sure, VERY HIGHLY Recommended.  You can see it here. It comes is several colors not just orange. https://spraygunner.com/sharpenair-spraygunner-orange-edition/

 

Well, viper, I'm taking you at your word, that this is a good little device and I placed an order for one of these 'needle fixers' at SprayGunner over the weekend.  I also read the reviews, so I am not going entirely on your word/opinion.  Hoping I won't really 'need' to use it, but another on of those tools that are nice to have, just in case.  It does look like a nice thing, though.  

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On 4/9/2020 at 10:41 AM, viper730 said:

What kind of seals are in the DH I spray mostly solvent based paints...Thank You

 

Dunno, I've never replaced any seals. I wouldn't even know where to look. The O ring at the back which adds friction to  the needle screw stop wore out but I never replaced it as it is really only there to  provide resistance to stop the needle stop screw moving from where you set  it, .

 

I spray lacquers and I do soak the entire airbrush in lacquer thinners when cleaning it in an ultrasonic cleaner. The thing is  pretty indestructible unlike the Iwata...I've had the Sparmax for about 12 years IIRC it cost about $50 USD. As you found out Sparmax are part of the Iwata group. I was told this when I bought my first Sparmax about 20 years ago (IIRC DH-125)  I sold that a guy who paints motorcycle tanks. 

 

I also had a DH-102 for a few years and sold it to partially pay for iwata HP-C plus. Is the Iwata better ? Hard to say, but I know it's not $200 USD better. 

 

Bang for buck i don't think you can beat them. 

Edited by a4s4eva
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21 hours ago, Curt B said:

 

Well, viper, I'm taking you at your word, that this is a good little device and I placed an order for one of these 'needle fixers' at SprayGunner over the weekend.  I also read the reviews, so I am not going entirely on your word/opinion.  Hoping I won't really 'need' to use it, but another on of those tools that are nice to have, just in case.  It does look like a nice thing, though.  

Nice. I think you'll find it works as advertised.

 

13 hours ago, a4s4eva said:

Dunno, I've never replaced any seals. I wouldn't even know where to look. The O ring at the back which adds friction to  the needle screw stop wore out but I never replaced it as it is really only there to  provide resistance to stop the needle stop screw moving from where you set  it, .

 

I spray lacquers and I do soak the entire airbrush in lacquer thinners when cleaning it in an ultrasonic cleaner. The thing is  pretty indestructible unlike the Iwata...I've had the Sparmax for about 12 years IIRC it cost about $50 USD. As you found out Sparmax are part of the Iwata group. I was told this when I bought my first Sparmax about 20 years ago (IIRC DH-125)  I sold that a guy who paints motorcycle tanks. 

 

I also had a DH-102 for a few years and sold it to partially pay for iwata HP-C plus. Is the Iwata better ? Hard to say, but I know it's not $200 USD better. 

 

Bang for buck i don't think you can beat them. 

I pulled the Trigger on the Max35. Should be hear today. Thanks for the input...

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It very much depends on what kind of money you want to spend and the results you want from it.

 

There are so many manufacturers out there each with their own set of fans who would promote their products as they use them on a regular basis and each has its own pros and cons.

 

Iwata Custom Micron line is without a doubt the best out there but the price is the highest and some people will tell you that cleaning isnt as easy as it is on some others who give similar spray results so go with the cheaper as you wont notice the difference... etc etc But the CM line is the very best.

GSI Ceros Mr Hobby line of airbrushes is a poor mans Iwata, it removes the superior build quality of a very similar result of spray for a much reduced price, I can highly recommend them, especially as you had an Aztec.

 

Sparmax, Tamiya, H&S, Grek, Paasche, Badger and a whole host of other names are all much of a muchness, there really isnt anything between them once you start using it on a regular basis and get used to how it handles and how to clean it.

 

My prefered is Iwata because of what I value I can live with the cons of it.

The HP-CS is a good cheap (for Iwata) general purpose workhorse of the range. The list price is about £140 but I know it can be bought for less than £100. At that price range then you are into GSI PS-289 territory which is also about £100.

There is a reason why the GSI has more features for less money than the Iwata, but the real question is can you live with that reason for that price you pay.

 

If you get an HP-CS I doubt you would regret it, you might find another brush you get on better with but you wouldnt regret an Iwata

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10 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

It very much depends on what kind of money you want to spend and the results you want from it.

 

There are so many manufacturers out there each with their own set of fans who would promote their products as they use them on a regular basis and each has its own pros and cons.

 

Iwata Custom Micron line is without a doubt the best out there but the price is the highest and some people will tell you that cleaning isnt as easy as it is on some others who give similar spray results so go with the cheaper as you wont notice the difference... etc etc But the CM line is the very best.

GSI Ceros Mr Hobby line of airbrushes is a poor mans Iwata, it removes the superior build quality of a very similar result of spray for a much reduced price, I can highly recommend them, especially as you had an Aztec.

 

Sparmax, Tamiya, H&S, Grek, Paasche, Badger and a whole host of other names are all much of a muchness, there really isnt anything between them once you start using it on a regular basis and get used to how it handles and how to clean it.

 

My prefered is Iwata because of what I value I can live with the cons of it.

The HP-CS is a good cheap (for Iwata) general purpose workhorse of the range. The list price is about £140 but I know it can be bought for less than £100. At that price range then you are into GSI PS-289 territory which is also about £100.

There is a reason why the GSI has more features for less money than the Iwata, but the real question is can you live with that reason for that price you pay.

 

If you get an HP-CS I doubt you would regret it, you might find another brush you get on better with but you wouldnt regret an Iwata

a few years back, a fellow had a 1/9th scale German motor cycle on display a the INDY model. this thing was a work of art! The paint job was as smooth as glass, but in a semi gloss. He had two or three other kits entered, and their paint job was better than my car! I asked how and why. Used a $75 H-1 airbrush. I have three of them, and about  dozen needles. Never saw anything that good out of mine. He said the first thing was surface prep, and then finding out what your brush liked in pressure & volume of air. The paint a big issue once you got the viscosity right. I learned a lot in that ten minute conversation. Is the Iwata a better brush than the paasche. But no better than what spraying paint on!

gary

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10 minutes ago, ChesshireCat said:

a few years back, a fellow had a 1/9th scale German motor cycle on display a the INDY model. this thing was a work of art! The paint job was as smooth as glass, but in a semi gloss. He had two or three other kits entered, and their paint job was better than my car! I asked how and why. Used a $75 H-1 airbrush. I have three of them, and about  dozen needles. Never saw anything that good out of mine. He said the first thing was surface prep, and then finding out what your brush liked in pressure & volume of air. The paint a big issue once you got the viscosity right. I learned a lot in that ten minute conversation. Is the Iwata a better brush than the paasche. But no better than what spraying paint on!

gary

 

Yeah, when I first got an a/b, I thought there were some set rules to follow and away you go (paint:thinner ratio, air pressure).

 

But only true to an extent.  There are numerous other variables - e.g. paint brand, paint colour, mixing colours, thinner brand, cleaning, weather?, how you hold your tongue, what mood you are in.......

 

If I was more scientific about it, I'd actually measure my paint:thinner ratios properly, and experiment with different pressures.  But I tend to just leave my compressor at about 18psi, just put some thinner in the cup according to the total volume of paint I reckon I need to do the job, then stir in some paint with a little stick till I reckon it looks about right, then spray.  Sometimes magic happens, often it's a bit ho hum, sometimes it's a complete clusterf@#$ and I have to strip, clean & go again.

 

I find I have to remove the needle from my Iwata HP-CP and do a basic clean (clean needle, flush thinner through the needle tip nozzle) about every 4-5 colour changes.  Every 10 or so colour changes, I also have to remove the needle nozzle, clean it out with brush hairs, and use a cleaning tool down the front of the a/b & flush that out with thinner.  I now also run the needle through the a/b in reverse at this stage to remove any other paint in the front end.  I'll use the Iwata needle oil when re-installing. Every few weeks I also have to dismantle the trigger and air intake assembly & lubricate that else the trigger gets sticky.

 

After every painting session, I always run some cheap Bunnnings lacquer thinner through it, and then some more expensive thinner (Tamiya or Mr Colour) and sometimes some diluted airbrush cleaner before setting it aside for the night.

 

The only constant is that MM/Testors enamels seem to cause less spraying issues (clogging, spitting, coarseness) than acrylics, but I mostly still use acrylic as it smells less.....well it did until I started thinning them with Mr Color Leveling thinner 🙄

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I think, getting back to the original question, just about any airbrush out there is better (in my book) than the Aztec line. Depends on how much you want to spend. I agree with Electrosoldier, the Iwata HP-CS is a great workhorse of an airbrush. Reasonably priced, good performance, relatively easy to clean. You can't go wrong. If after you've used the CS for a while, you want to upgrade, you'll have a better idea of what you want from a high end airbrush. I went with a H&S Infinity after my Iwata HP-SBS (side feed version of the CS). It is not as fancy as one of the high end Iwata's, but it is extremely easy to clean, which was important for me. The advice of others above is all very good and should be taken to heart. Whichever one you buy, spend some time learning to use it well and it will serve you well.

Edited by Mstor
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15 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

a few years back, a fellow had a 1/9th scale German motor cycle on display a the INDY model. this thing was a work of art! The paint job was as smooth as glass, but in a semi gloss. He had two or three other kits entered, and their paint job was better than my car! I asked how and why. Used a $75 H-1 airbrush. I have three of them, and about  dozen needles. Never saw anything that good out of mine. He said the first thing was surface prep, and then finding out what your brush liked in pressure & volume of air. The paint a big issue once you got the viscosity right. I learned a lot in that ten minute conversation. Is the Iwata a better brush than the paasche. But no better than what spraying paint on!

gary

Yeah...
It doesnt matter what airbrush you use if the surface isnt right and the paint isnt right.

 

The surface you are working with will effect all of them equally. Iwata have the universally regarded reputation they have for a reason.

 

You could say your Custom micron doesnt perform half as well as my £10 ebay special does. And then find out there I dont use a primer when I use the Custom micron because its a bit to bland of a colour to put through such a nice airbrush.

 

Once you learn how your particular aribrush works, and works well then it will work well for you.

The learning curve is much steeper on some that others with very little pay out at the end because the parts wear out so fast you are back to the start before you finished.

 

Ive used an Aztec airbrush in the past. Its a beastie in a class all on its own. If you can get one with one of them then you can use an HP-CS (or a H&S Inifnity or Badger or what ever).

I recommend the HP-CS because its learning curve so gentle, its robust and very well made, almost nothing to go wrong, spares cheap and readily available online and the airbrush itself is cheap.

 

My recommendation is no more right or wrong than the next mans opinion.

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FWIW, I’ve had a Badger single action 200 for 20 years.    The thing is bulletproof and for my purposes, does a really nice job.    I finally put it out to pasture and replaced it with another 200. I also like the fact that it’s made in the USA.   

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8 hours ago, Mstor said:

I think, getting back to the original question, just about any airbrush out there is better (in my book) than the Aztec line. Depends on how much you want to spend. I agree with Electrosoldier, the Iwata HP-CS is a great workhorse of an airbrush. Reasonably priced, good performance, relatively easy to clean. You can't go wrong. If after you've used the CS for a while, you want to upgrade, you'll have a better idea of what you want from a high end airbrush. I went with a H&S Infinity after my Iwata HP-SBS (side feed version of the CS). It is not as fancy as one of the high end Iwata's, but it is extremely easy to clean, which was important for me. The advice of others above is all very good and should be taken to heart. Whichever one you buy, spend some time learning to use it well and it will serve you well.

 

Thats what sells the HP-CS. Its easy. The floating nozzle makes it so easy to clean even when you start to dig down into the gubbins.

Ive got an HP-SBS. It is very similar to an HP-CS in many ways, its side feed but it has the floating nozzle and to be honest with you it works well every time I pick it up and use it. Ive never had a single problem with it.

However inspite of that and the fact that both are side feed airbrushes I would not recommend the HP-SBS to replace an Aztec because I know both and I know they do not perform the same.

I use my SBS for very particular work, mostly with inks because that airbrush is well suited to them. It has no problem at all spraying anything else, Model Air, Tamiya, Citadel, its quite good with Vallejo Metal color so I couldnt tell you its a general purpose tool like I can the HP-CS.

 

The HP-CS isnt my favorite airbrush, in fact its never been my favorite airbrush, I think its rather middle of the road as they go. But sometimes the middle of the road is exactly where you need to be. As boring or safe as that sounds its probably best after using the Aztec, which is a tool all on its own.

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2 minutes ago, 11bee said:

FWIW, I’ve had a Badger single action 200 for 20 years.    The thing is bulletproof and for my purposes, does a really nice job.    I finally put it out to pasture and replaced it with another 200. I also like the fact that it’s made in the USA.   

Solid reliable performer.

Really good brush for teaching how to move. twist off siphon pots pre loaded with all kinds, you can go from a lacquer to an acrylic is 2 twists and it never misses a beat.

 

But basic for modelling though. espcially given its price these days.

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2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Solid reliable performer.

Really good brush for teaching how to move. twist off siphon pots pre loaded with all kinds, you can go from a lacquer to an acrylic is 2 twists and it never misses a beat.

 

But basic for modelling though. espcially given its price these days.

I kinda felt the same way but don’t feel like teaching myself how to master a double-action brush (btw, what’s the consensus on these, are they crucial to getting professional level results?).  

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3 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I use my SBS for very particular work, mostly with inks because that airbrush is well suited to them. It has no problem at all spraying anything else, Model Air, Tamiya, Citadel, its quite good with Vallejo Metal color so I couldnt tell you its a general purpose tool like I can the HP-CS.

 

I made a siphon feed cap that fits on Alclad II bottles. So I use the SBS for spraying Alclad. I can switch colors fast. Just run a little lacquer thinner through the airbrush and the siphon tube and screw it on a new bottle (after shaking well of course).

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6 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Yeah...
It doesnt matter what airbrush you use if the surface isnt right and the paint isnt right.

 

The surface you are working with will effect all of them equally. Iwata have the universally regarded reputation they have for a reason.

 

You could say your Custom micron doesnt perform half as well as my £10 ebay special does. And then find out there I dont use a primer when I use the Custom micron because its a bit to bland of a colour to put through such a nice airbrush.

 

Once you learn how your particular aribrush works, and works well then it will work well for you.

The learning curve is much steeper on some that others with very little pay out at the end because the parts wear out so fast you are back to the start before you finished.

 

Ive used an Aztec airbrush in the past. Its a beastie in a class all on its own. If you can get one with one of them then you can use an HP-CS (or a H&S Inifnity or Badger or what ever).

I recommend the HP-CS because its learning curve so gentle, its robust and very well made, almost nothing to go wrong, spares cheap and readily available online and the airbrush itself is cheap.

 

My recommendation is no more right or wrong than the next mans opinion.

I tried tp reread my post, and it didn't make sense. I wrote this about an hour after taking my pain meds, and was probably jittery. So I must apologize to anyone trying to read it! 

What I was trying to say is that it doesn't matter what brush you use; it's only as good as the prep. I love my Iwata HP-CS, but there are times I simply cannot hold it (or the Paasches) so I revert to the pistol grip NEO. Why Iwata never made a pistol grip HP, I'll never understand. A few years back I had the chance to spray with a Grex pistol grip brush, and loved the way the trigger felt. That's the brush I'd buy if replacing the Iwata HP-CS. Yet I know the way the Iwata is built, that my Grandson will  be painting John Deer green with it long after I'm in the ground.

gary

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6 hours ago, 11bee said:

I kinda felt the same way but don’t feel like teaching myself how to master a double-action brush (btw, what’s the consensus on these, are they crucial to getting professional level results?).  

Erm....

Some of the results you might want, for instance a bit of preshading, with the darker colour layed down first would be easier with double action. Some of the Luftwaffe camo schemes I personally wouldnt try with a single action as there isnt the level so control required.
Over all I would always roll with double action, the control is worlds apart.

2 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

I tried tp reread my post, and it didn't make sense. I wrote this about an hour after taking my pain meds, and was probably jittery. So I must apologize to anyone trying to read it! 

What I was trying to say is that it doesn't matter what brush you use; it's only as good as the prep. I love my Iwata HP-CS, but there are times I simply cannot hold it (or the Paasches) so I revert to the pistol grip NEO. Why Iwata never made a pistol grip HP, I'll never understand. A few years back I had the chance to spray with a Grex pistol grip brush, and loved the way the trigger felt. That's the brush I'd buy if replacing the Iwata HP-CS. Yet I know the way the Iwata is built, that my Grandson will  be painting John Deer green with it long after I'm in the ground.

gary

Yeah it doesnt and it does.

If your surface isnt ready like you say it doesnt matter what airbrush you use it will never be able to save you. However the doesnt carry on once the surface is prep'd ready to rock.

 

5 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

I made a siphon feed cap that fits on Alclad II bottles. So I use the SBS for spraying Alclad. I can switch colors fast. Just run a little lacquer thinner through the airbrush and the siphon tube and screw it on a new bottle (after shaking well of course).

I only have the two gravity feed colour cups for mind, I never bothered with the siphon feed bottles.

 

In spite of what people think of an airbrush being either or a side feed can be both, it depends on the height difference between the level of paint in the colour cup and the needle nozzle.

If the nozzle is lower than the level of paint in the colour cup then gravity will push down on it, if the needle is higher then it wont and the paint is drawn out by a siphon.

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