Jump to content

Finally; a new 1/72 Phantom


Recommended Posts

This is the part where real craftsman come into play. The knowledge of doing / polishing it by hand is a profession on the verge of extinction.   That is of doing it good!

Google translate gives this Japanese translation for the description from FineMolds for the microsope photo above:

 

It is polishing while looking at the microscope.

It is a manual work that requires steady work.

 

 

We can only rely on what FineMolds shows of its work. Hope that we will see something of the forward fuselage work soon. I can just hope that this (shown as todays work) will be the tool frame for the forward fuselage section and the EMD work has already been done on the engraved tool parts.

 

0KwOHXq.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

The knowledge of doing / polishing it by hand is a profession on the verge of extension. 

EDM can achieve mirror-like surfaces nowadays and High-Speed Machining reduces or eliminates polishing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of already used anodes. One can say leftovers of mould making. A lot of brass which in most cases end up in recycling. On the other hand some companies keep them for a time or use them for publicity purpose.

Hundreds of such anodes are needed in making the production injection moulding press tools.

 

Xqc4a9O.jpg

 

In the top box are the after fuselage left and right sides as well as fuel tanks. One in the bottom has some of the F-4EJ KAI parts like the fin tip with those special antennas.

 

WFGsLmy.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wednesdays work started at FineMolds with test 3D printing of some parts. To make the thing a little more difficult a transparent resin was used. : )  : )  : )

Looking at it, for me anyway it seems like two sets (back to back) of nose parts and associated details. Left and right side of the nose is visible next to it the bottom of the nose section with a cutout for the nose bay. The long “thing” next to it is I believe the gun cover.

 

But of course I could be completely wrong and this is something else. : )  : )   : )

 

Yes, I am wrong looking at the image, the nose parts are placed upside down and what is indicated as right side is infact the left side. But more soon . . .

 

ZE3iGGq.jpg

 

 

 

I am sure soon we will see more images where the parts are tested and for better understanding and visibility painted.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to correct myself again. The nose sections are upright after all.

 

I know it is not so easy to see the details on completely transparent parts.

But Yes, it is the forward fuselage parts on that 3D print plate. There is a vertical split of the nose. One can say that the nose is over engineered with so many parts but I think it insures that details are there on each surface and there are no real compromises.

 

Even the four distinct connector strips are there for the intake ramp. It will be interesting to see how they show on this 72nd scale kit. Not something usually included in the small scale or even in bigger ones. Don’t remember seeing it on the new Academy or the Hasegawa kits in 48th. FineMolds made the 4 strips in a similar way as on the Zoukei-Mura Phantom kit

 

3m6yO8f.jpg

 

I believe this sprue will also have the vertical tail, the one without all those extras of the KAI version and many other parts.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gabor,

 

Interesting watching you read the ultrasounds during the gestation of  this Phantom.

 

:smiley-transport008:

 

Quote

There is a vertical split of the nose. 

 

But it looks like there will be a horizontal piece from the nose back to the windscreen, taking care of that top seam.

 

Gene K

Edited by GeneK
Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the best thread - I've learned so much about how kits are manufactured.  Thanks for all the explainations @ya-gabor - its so useful for us not knowing what I'm looking at.  LOL the ultrasound comment is so apt.  Loving this thread.  Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GeneK said:

Gabor,

 

Interesting watching you read the ultrasounds during the gestation of  this Phantom.

 

:smiley-transport008:

 

 

But it looks like there will be a horizontal piece from the nose back to the windscreen, taking care of that top seam.

 

Gene K

 

Hi Gene K,

 

Well if you know what to look for then it is a fairly clear picture.   : )   : )   : )

 

Yes, based on these views the forward fuselage is divided into 4 parts: Left and Right side wall, top and bottom. There is a separate top part from nose cone to windshield. This is why I was saying that it could be considered by some as over-engineered. It was already visible with the after top/back part where a separate top panel was provide and the whole after /underside with the heat resistant steel cover is also a separate part as well as the seals around the engine exhaust.

I can say it does not look like a snap-fit kit. Those looking for that kind of kit should look elsewhere. But all the details are exceptional for a 72 nd scale offering and I think well worth it.

 

I am not surprised they test fitted last week the after top/back part with that top panel, and it looks good, I would expect similar positive fit with the nose parts also. I think it all builds up around the cockpit tab. A novel and unusual way of parts brake-down and fit, but interesting. We will see how it goes.

Sure they will do a quick test fit of the 3D printed parts. As far as it is possible to see it is all done before metal is cut for the nose parts.

 

Here are the parts. This photo was taken after the 3D printer base plate lifted and it is still dripping with resin and of course it went upwards so for clarity I have turned it around.

 

PsYBtG6.jpg

 

The full size vertical fin is also visible, which I think will be the common part for most versions together with the insert next to it which hasn't got those antennas of the F-4EJ KAI version seen previously on the KAI sprue.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Paul Boyer said:

The trick with these "covers" that eliminate the top seam, they better fit perfectly. If they don't, you'll have TWO or more seams to fill!🤔

 

Hi Paul,

 

I think your worry was partly answered by the fit of that top panel on the back of the fuselage (see previous page). Well I hope anyway!!!!!!  : )  : )   It did look really fine! and with use of slide moulding it was possible to have all the fine details all around the surfaces and also hide the mould joint line with that top panel!

 

Yes, if there is a problem with the fit of all those parts       then there is a problem with it.

But have a look at some of the “single piece”,  multi mould tool, slide moulded one piece parts which ever manufacturer is producing it. If there is even the slightest misalignment of the mould tools then you have a nasty seam, multitude of nasty seams all over the place. You sand it down (if you can) and one can start scribing and riveting all that was lost in the process.

I am not sure I would want that in 72nd scale.

 

Anyway we will see when plastic parts will be in hand. Till then all we can do is to see what FineMolds comes up with this kit.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

So what FineMolds is showing to us? Some weapons sprues. They are saying that test moulding will be next week. (that is if the big G translator is right).

Somewhere previously on one of their pages there was a page where in my interpretation there will be a separate weapons set released as well as an independent set with the brass pitots produced by FineMolds. It is not really clear how this will work and what will be included in the standard kit box.

 

Anyway here are some views of the missiles. The mould tool is still under machining.

 

XMhlfh7.jpg 

 

 

This is standard two sided mould tool with one piece missiles, all fins are in place.

 

eVSClO6.jpg

 

4lFEZIt.jpg

 

 

FineMolds technician is more careful this time in what he is showing to the camera. : )  : )   : )    : )   Mould tools in the background are covered with masking tape, so it is not really clear what they are for. OK, we understand the hint. 

 

JVpFfn9.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t know if this has been shown before. In a FineMold interview around a month ago these missiles were shown as part of the Phantom development project. It is unclear if they will be actually part of the kit or a separate weapons set.

 

pKr0meX.jpg 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

 It is unclear if they will be actually part of the kit or a separate weapons set.

 

Here are the separate kit numbers and prices for the Weapons Set as well as the metal Pitot and Ram Air Bellows tubes:

 

pBVj4U5.jpg

 

I assume that since they are separate high priced kits,  that they will not be included in the Phantom kits.

 

Gene K

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 6/11/2020 at 11:47 AM, SCOUT712 said:
On 6/10/2020 at 8:43 AM, ya-gabor said:

 

ZEWpZqO.jpg

 

 

At the top of the drawing that small insert plan of the nose to me does look like an RF-4 version!!!!!!!!!!! 

What do you think????

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

That drawing is from the Japanese graphic artist that owns the Wings of Pegasus modeling site. He's done extensive comparative technical drawings for many different aircraft types; and did an exhaustive study on the major F-4 variants: F-4C, F-4E, RF-4C, and F-4K/M. The drawing in the photo, above, is the same one I've attached of the F-4E fuselage layout, left and right sides. The insert drawing on the upper left of the sheet is a detail study of the early F-4E gun muzzle fairing, prior to the Midas-4 muzzle, used on U.S. F-4Es. Unfortunately, that drawing is not of an RF-4 nose detail. Apparently FM is using the Wings of Pegasus drawings as a reference for their tooling. This should be a good thing. See http://soyuyo.main.jp/f4/f4e-1.html#bottom

 

 

f4side_e.gif

Edited by cmayer
punctuation
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Cmayer,

 

Thanks for the great addition!

Yes. I did every now and then go back to that image (what little is visible of it) and compared to my RF-4 refferences and was thinking that there is little chance that it is the recon bird nose more likely the short gun version. There was simply no logical explanation why have only the nose section of an RF while the there are so many other differences on the recon bird.

But there were so many other things going around so I did not return to this question. 

 

Thanks for clearing it up and showing that images! The overall picture is clearer now.

So I guess it is a good thing (that quality drawings were used). Well not for those who were looking forward to a real RF-4. Still there is hope . . . 

 

Thanks!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
Link to post
Share on other sites

Going back to the mould production with step by step tutorial from FineMolds page (for the engineering/technologycally minded modellers). : )   : )   : )

 

The empty frame, actually the two sides of the would be injection moulding tool.

 

QJCuccp.jpg

 

Raw steel blocks cut with exact fit.

 

8aSN9Pu.jpg

 

 

bp3uFZy.jpg

 

 

On fresh FineMolds photos they actually show how the steel inserts fit into the mould frame. These are raw steel inserts which (hopefully soon) will have the negative imprints of kit parts after EDM production.

 

 

m8963N2.jpg 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Last posts from FineMolds for the week. It seems that the canopy sprue is finished. Hope they will do some test moulding next week.

 

DleoDsg.jpg

 

YAVhYvR.jpg

 

But what is far more interesting, it would be nice to see what happened to those forward fuselage 3D prints.

Oh come on, show us something of the nose!!!!!!   : )   : )   : )

 

Best regards

Gabor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...