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Finally; a new 1/72 Phantom


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Drooped Ailerons

 

A nice unexpected feature of the FM kit-- while starting to cut the ailerons to droop them, I found that FM had done most of the cutting!!    Easy to droop the ailerons as shown here near the bottom of the page.

 

y9S3CvPl.jpg 

 

Gene K

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9 hours ago, GeneK said:

Drooped Ailerons

 

A nice unexpected feature of the FM kit-- while starting to cut the ailerons to droop them, I found that FM had done most of the cutting!!    Easy to droop the ailerons as shown here near the bottom of the page.

 

y9S3CvPl.jpg 

 

Gene K

Awesome!   Good to know, thanks 👍🏻

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1 hour ago, GeneK said:

 

Nice, thanks. Could you determine what they used for the wash?

 

Gene K

 

Hi Gene,

 

Somewhere earlier when it was still just early test sprues showing first parts on FineMolds site, the google translater was giving "black ink" as used for wash.

Have no idea what it is exactly, sorry. But for a test, showing of plastic parts and the different panels and rivets it is perfect! 

Would I use it for an actual "colour painted" build, not sure.

 

 

P.s. Had one quick look at the photos & on one of them there a Tamiya Panel line bottle in the background, so could it be the one they used??? I dont know.

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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Looks like the work for today has finished at FineMolds and that new sprue for the Japanese version RF-4EJ is taking shape for all the little extras, like this ALQ-131 pod. Some nice laser engraved fine details there!

 

OYDv2Hg.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

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On 10/30/2020 at 2:42 PM, ya-gabor said:

 

 
fJIGgZ6.jpg
 
And the Blue version
 
oiwuPNs.jpg
 

 

Well, FWIW: both specially painted jets have embarked on a 'pharewell' tour of JASDF bases. They both showed up at Tsuiki (former F-4 base) yesterday and the yellow one landed at Naha (also former F-4 base) today.

 

I guess the end is very near for the JASDF Phantoms 😞 

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4 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Here are those Nano formation light installed on the surface.

 

Interesting that the rudder insert on the Kai pictured appears to fit so well. That was not the case with my -EJ,  which required substantial sanding to fit flush.

 

Pollie said: [quote]I guess the end is very near for the JASDF Phantoms 😞 [/quote]

 

Thankfully we have superb videographers recording the Japanese Phantoms. Wish the technology was  around decades ago!

 

Gene K

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2 minutes ago, GeneK said:

 

.................... pictured appears to fit so well. That was not the case with my -EJ,  which required substantial sanding to fit flush.

 

Thank you for the heads up. In the picture you can see daylight through the front and rear part of the fin cap. Of course the rear part is the top of the rudder. Trying to restrain as much as possible from sanding and loosing all the beautiful detail.

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27 minutes ago, Craig Baldwin said:

Trying to restrain as much as possible from sanding and loosing all the beautiful detail.

 

The sanding is all on the inside of the insert, so NO detail is lost!:thumbsup2:

 

The gap you highlighted is not on the -EJ  --  it is a tight fit there. My Kai will not be arriving until December, so will be interesting to see if there is in fact a fit difference. At any rate - no biggie at all.

 

Gene K

 

Edited by GeneK
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The RF-4EJ tooling closes in on production with updates of the instrument panel. So nice FineMolds has paid attention to all these details. This helps even the casual modeller get things right.

 

egvJgpJ.jpg?1

 

This information also provided along with photos shows how communication is so important in the entire process.

This was the translation Google provides   "Please note that the protrusion on the left side of the ejection seat of the 1/72 Phantom of Fine Molds is not a burr!"   "The person in charge of the plastic model was about to cut it off ..."

 

v6YjPJj.jpg?1

 

wJ0iyrP.jpg?1

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The good side of is that they are professional printing. I know there have been a lot of talk about the new Eduard decals with digital printing. Have to admit that the ones I have are . . .   

Prefer screen printing and most manufacturers still use that technology fortunately! Actually each techology has its pros and cons but for the moment screen printing is by far the best!

 

These decals look fab to me. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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37 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:

Prefer screen printing and most manufacturers still use that technology fortunately!

Of the two blue-aircraft decals, the FM website translation states:

 

↑ The upper decal is offset printing that can be reproduced precisely
↓ The lower decal is silk printing with beautiful metallic color reproduction

 

I have no idea of the difference between methods or the application implications.

 

Gene K

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4 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

The good side of is that they are professional printing. I know there have been a lot of talk about the new Eduard decals with digital printing. Have to admit that the ones I have are . . .   

Prefer screen printing and most manufacturers still use that technology fortunately! Actually each techology has its pros and cons but for the moment screen printing is by far the best!

 

These decals look fab to me. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

+ 10 😉

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15 hours ago, GeneK said:

I have no idea of the difference between methods or the application implications.

 

Gene K

 

 

The simple way to explain the difference is this:

 

Offset printing.

This is a very traditional printing technology. Have a look at any publication you have at home. Look under a little magnification at pictures and you will see that particular colours are made up of different colour dots side by side. Same principle as a colour/digital Comp or TV screen.

 

Pros

- Good colour reproduction even if it is generated from different colours

- Ability to print transition between colours. Like it is possible to print an almost perfect WW2 Nose Art

- Best used for book, publication printing 

 

Cons

- expensive and one needs fairly high production numbers (upper hundreds but more in thousands)

- need precise register for the colours since each colour has its own printing metal sheet, or you will have a white (or whatever) border say to numbers/letters misplaced, roundel with visible incorrect position of rings of colours . . .

- Colour borders are far from a sharp transition.

- Colour are not always perfect F.S. equivalent since made up of different colour dots, depends on machine setting.

- Black will never be a 100% black more a very dark grey

 

 

 

Screen printing

Have a look at any traditional MicroScale decal.

Here fine silk screens are covered with photo sensitive film, the decal designs photo film is placed over it, light is used to make reaction and where you had the design the photo sensitive film can be washed away leaving, basically a hole where paint can go through the silk towards the decal paper during printing.

 

Pros

- Extremely sharp colour edges

- Direct F.S. or Panton equivalent paint is used so it will be a perfect match and a 100% colour (Black will be black . . .)

- Beautiful vibrant colour can be achieved

- Extremely fine details, like for example stencil letters can be legible

No surprise that this is the so to say Classic technology for decal production

 

Cons

- Need for register adjustment of each colours individual printing screens.

- Cost and time

- Preparing the printing screens is not cheap so a bigger series production can bring down overall price, while yes, you can do just one decal but it will be costly!!!

 

 

 

Digital printing

Same as you every day home colour printer only a professional version and far more expensive machine! This is what for example Eduard is using now since parting with Cartograf but also few other manufacturers.

 

Pros

- In principle it is possible to produce just a single decal. Or if there is a need to reissue a kit even in small numbers (10, 50, 100 . . .)  it is only a question of how many times you press Enter on the printer.

- So apart from expensive machine the printing is very cheap, which could be reflected in the final decal price. I am sure this was one of the most important reasons why Eduard went this way. 

- No need to adjust register as the given subject is printed at the same time with the colour appearing from various colour cartridges at the same time.

-  One can produce some sensational reproduction of real WW2 (or what ever) Nose-Art with subtle colour transitions, or for example faded, weathered, or damaged national markings, numbers/ letters. This is not possible with screen printing, this is why some companies in the past combined screen printing and offset to make use of good sides of both technologies.  

 

Cons

- No direct colours, same as with offset, the given colour is made/mixed from different (4,5,6 . . .) basic colour cartridges so to achieve a perfect F.S. equivalent is almost impossible. Depends on setting and how the machine/computer interprets the given colour, how much paint is left in the cartridge . . .

- Not suitable for very fine details, there will be NO sharp borders. Stencils are  . . .

- Colours are not consistent,

- Unfortunately on bigger surfaces one will see raster patern and not a consistent colour patch.

- Colour coverage is inferior to other technologies

 

 

One day this digital technology should be the solution for decal printing, but not today!!!!!!!!  There is still a lot of development needed!

 

Of course this is only a quick and simple look at the technologies to make it understandable. In real life there are so many other differences between them which are far beyond the scope of this forum.

 

 

Hope this explains a little about decal production technologies.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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Please take the Post of Ya Gabor from 01.12.2020 before reading this one...

Thank You.

 

These  decals on the blue scheme do not represent what you can see on the real aircraft.

Black should be Black, whatever the printing process you choose. On the blue scheme the stars are Black...not grey or silver grey, just black ! 

 

What is more important is that all Japanese F-4EJ stencils are black or yellow.  This is correct on the decal sheet for aircraft finished in the original Japanese three tones of grey camo scheme.

So, each line of these stencils should appear on the original grey paint of the aircraft.

 

For the "special schemes" these stencils were masked (line by line) before the colours of the special scheme was painted on. So that even on a black or dark blue colour each line of text of the stencil remain on a grey background.  With the distance these stencils appear white on a dark background. In reality they are just black on a much lighter background....

 

This is especially noticeable on the blue scheme wings leading edge. If you are using the decals per se, you won't see anything....

 

I have been so weak to buy these two same "Special Schemes" versions of  these F-4EJ by Hasegawa.

The Hasegawa decals are much more faithfull except for these damned stencils. (and they were not printed by Cartograf...) 

The same applies to Hasegawa's F-4EJ from ADTW and her  special 60th anniversary scheme. The bird was all black with Gold and White  decoration patterns. On the decal sheet all the stencils are black with no grey background  so that once applied on your all black painted bird, you won't see them anymore. How clever, isn't it ? 

 

I had hoped that Fine Molds would have had these mihaps corrected. But again, as Hasegawa, they give you a generic sheet of black stencils that apply for three tones grey camouflaged aircrafts, and they don't care for the rest.  For me, in these cases, these two makers are just blind or crooks.  I am opting for both ...

 

If you think I am wrong , look at pictures of these aircrafts....

 

For the fact that Fine Molds take us for idiot I won't buy these two "Special Schemes" kits.

 

P.S. My comment is based on the pictures of the decals appearing above. If anyone has got the real sheets, please don't be afraid to tell me if I am wrong...I would be so happy !

 

My last hope is now for the Zoukei Moura 1/48 ... but I fear for the worst.   Only $ matter ! 

Edited by madcop
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Hi Madcop,

 

You are right about the way the stencils are applied for special schemes. I am not sure for this one. Havent seen any closeups of the real aircraft.

 

ZvhIx5f.jpg

 

But the stars on the blue scheme are in fact silver on this particular aircraft. Dont know if in the past it had black stars or not, but at the moment (photo is on landing 11 Oct 2020) they are silver and the kit supposed to represent todays scheme for the retirement.

 

2ZqJa00.jpg

 

 

Photos from Japanese tweeter.

 

Best regards

Gabor

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3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

You are right about the way the stencils are applied for special schemes. I am not sure for this one. Havent seen any closeups of the real aircraft.

 

Here's a close up showing just a bit of the black stenciling on the gray under the ladder - appears to be the same on the rest of the aircraft:

 

kUoKqYb.png

 

Gene K

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49 minutes ago, GeneK said:

 

Here's a close up showing just a bit of the black stenciling on the gray under the ladder - appears to be the same on the rest of the aircraft:

 

kUoKqYb.png

 

Gene K

 

Hi, Gabor, Hi Gene.

 

In my post I was talking about the stencils that appear on the special colors used for this blue scheme. The parts of the fuselage and wings that are not affected by these special colours keep their original stencilling (Black).

Looks like the black stencils (without grey background) are also kept on surfcaces that present a contrasting colour that keep them readable (like yellow or red for example). On a dark blue or real very dark colours they keep their light background so that they remain readable. 

 

Now, for the stars on the blue scheme one, I really don't want to start a "Star War" 😁 but after having looked at pictures and videos, for me they are black but can appear silver grey on certain lightning conditions. The very nice picture of this aircraft on the 1/72 Hasegawa box cover raises no doubt about this point ....

 

Madcop

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Hi Gene,

 

As I have said, "I am not sure about this one"!  The example shown above is a general paint / stencil protection technic used IN GENERAL on Special Schemes of all sorts of aircraft. The ones I really liked were on Japanese F-15's.

 

As for this blue and yellow bird have no idea, as from the one you shown above have not seen any other close ups. But from is visible on photos 90% of the aircraft has the original colour with original stencils, so there is no "cover up" there of any sort. Only places with the special trim where some stencils are present. As far as I can see on the yellow version, the stencils are there.

 

A friend was trying to buy the kit and it turned out that in Tokyo it was completely sold out in shops. : (  : (  : ( Now this is a rela problem!!!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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