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Finally; a new 1/72 Phantom


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On 5/1/2020 at 9:50 AM, GeneK said:

 

Trying to figure out what part #13 in the first picture is.

Only one? 😲 

 

Gene, part #13 you mention looks like #19 but it would have to involve the engines in some way cut I can't quite figure it.

Yes only one. I will see if a slatted version is on the horizon and I have too many projects on my list.

 

In this picture it would seem to me the airbrake wells would be moulded closed, you can see the shadows on the mould of where they should be. Definitely an opening for aftermarket parts manufacturers.

 

MXp7Otz.jpg?1

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7 minutes ago, Craig Baldwin said:

In this picture it would seem to me the airbrake wells would be moulded closed, you can see the shadows on the mould of where they should be. Definitely an opening for aftermarket parts manufacturers.

 

I see what you did there...  :coolio:

 

🙂

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1 hour ago, Craig Baldwin said:

 ... #19 but it would have to involve the engines in some way ... .

Maybe the burner cans fit into the recesses?

 

 ... seem to me the airbrake wells would be moulded closed ... . 

 

I'm trying to think positive looking at those negative molds. I have trouble determining which piece of a 2 part mold I'm looking at  -- the finely engraved or rough inside.  Also, no telling at what stage that picture was taken -- probably before the speed brakes were added.  :whistle:

 

Definitely an opening for aftermarket parts manufacturers.

 

Absolutely. Unfortunately 1/72 AM doesn't sell well, I'm told, and added to that, probably not  that many folks are interested in Phantom speed brakes.  The expensive Eduard sets that included the speed brakes are discontinued, leaving only this $11 item:

 

72604.gif

 

The Academy kit has nice speedbrakes, as does the venerable Monogram/Revell ... surely the FineMolds will also ... I hope.

 

Gene K

 

 

 

 

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I think the view of part 13 may be looking at the inner surface of the front cockpit coaming. The cut-out could be for the HUD for the Kai. I'm sure it's the part to the left of the outer wing  below the rear IP in this picture :

 

nTRixcP.jpg?1

 

Part 19 is the big mystery for me -  could it be a support for the fuselage, perhaps where the compressor faces attach or maybe a lower spreader for where the jetpipes locate to give the correct exhaust angle? Talking of the fuselage, I believe the kit may have a this as one piece, as in the Academy F-4 kits. The layout of the aft fuselage suggests this, as it looks like you join the two halves then slide it up into the rear of the main section. There appears to be an undercut forward of the stabilator hinge for positive location of the aft parts. If the main fuselage is in two halves this could lead to a fiddly joint between the four components.  I also hope that the lower forward fuselage is integral with the lower wing piece, I find the join between these on the Hasegawa F-4 a real pain to deal with.

 

For a $30+ kit, it'd be a shame if the speedbrakes aren't separate. Both these and deflected ailerons are a notable feature of 'at rest' Phantoms. It was more understandable on the now over 30 year Hasegawa F-4s,  but as the even older Monogram and the more recent kits (such as the Academy F-4J & AIrfix FG.1/FGR.2) have these as separate you'd think a modern kit would have them as a standard feature too. Oh well, it's not as if we're not used to modifying these already and it's not going to stop me getting a few.

 

Jonathan

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On 5/2/2020 at 5:06 PM, Craig Baldwin said:

In this picture it would seem to me the airbrake wells would be moulded closed, you can see the shadows on the mould of where they should be. Definitely an opening for aftermarket parts manufacturers.

 

MXp7Otz.jpg?1

A mold is made by cutting steel to obtain rough cavities for the big parts. For small parts, shallow areas and surface details, copper blocks are cut to be used in an EDM machine. What you see in the photo is the EDM process in progress: the steel block is bathing in oil, the copper electrode is at the surface. The EDM process has barely started here, the wing part has not been "EDMed" yet. I think it's too early to draw any conclusions on the airbrakes yet.

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7 hours ago, Wild Weasel V said:

Part 19 is the big mystery for me -  could it be a support for the fuselage, perhaps where the compressor faces attach or maybe a lower spreader for where the jetpipes locate to give the correct exhaust angle?

 

Jonathan,

 

Good to see another  Phantom Expert "pipe in". Maybe  Dave Williams will also chime.

 

I did some measurements, extrapolations, and rotated, flipped, "negativized", and sketched part 19 ... with no solid conclusion  :bandhead2:. Closest I can figure is that it may be  part of the intake ducting - the bottom portion where the duct starts to rise to clear the wing spar. The width is right, and the opening is not quite large enough or laterally close enough to meet the larger compressor face:

 

6ZnbDMh.jpg

 

Made for an interesting quarantine afternoon.:dontknow:

 

Gene K

 

 

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From the FineMolds web site today: 
"We are going to start electrical discharge machining "

 

 

Not much, but enjoyable to crawl along with progress shots:  Inboard Pylon.

 

AQKBdY4.jpg

 

Gene K

Edited by GeneK
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And all this in 72nd scale! Looks Phantastic!

 

Now where was that argument about over/under doing riveting on a 48th scale helicopter by who knows who . .  .

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited by ya-gabor
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On 5/4/2020 at 1:48 AM, GeneK said:

 

Jonathan,

 

Good to see another  Phantom Expert "pipe in". Maybe  Dave Williams will also chime.

 

I did some measurements, extrapolations, and rotated, flipped, "negativized", and sketched part 19 ... with no solid conclusion  :bandhead2:. Closest I can figure is that it may be  part of the intake ducting - the bottom portion where the duct starts to rise to clear the wing spar. The width is right, and the opening is not quite large enough or laterally close enough to meet the larger compressor face:

 

 

 

Made for an interesting quarantine afternoon.:dontknow:

 

Gene K

 

You may be on to something there Gene. I've done some sketching (although scribbling would be more accurate given my artistic abilities) of possible shapes and it looks like part 19 could indeed be a lower component of the intakes. There also appears to be two recesses which would be to clear the aft end of the Sparrow wells 🤔 If it is, the parts breakdown in the area could be, interesting...

 

The pylons look fantastic considering they're 1/72. The general picture of the frame also seems to have knocked my theory of a one piece fuselage on the head. The large part to the right has the distinctive circular fuel tank access panels so it looks as if the fuselage may have a more conventional two halves layout with the upper section as a cover for the joint. The landing gear doors are also impressive, it looks like they've avoided having ejector pin marks where it'd be almost impossible to clean up without losing the rivet detail, so a major plus.

 

Keep on posting the pictures. I'm really starting to look forward to this kit, to the point where for the first time, I've jumped in and pre-ordered two of each version.

 

Jonathan

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6 hours ago, Craig Baldwin said:

Update from Fine Molds with this video, starting at the 1:40.00 mark. Seems little is spared to make this a great kit.

 

https://tinyurl.com/ydgdmc6e

 

Thanks for this, Craig. 

 

I think the mystery of part 19 might be solved at 1:45:50.    Right at the end of the intake ducts.  Also, part 13 at 1:46:44. ( At the same timeframe of the video, it's good to see they got the correct nose for the Kai version. Part 3 )

 

Also, 1:45:55, it doesn't appear as if the airbrakes can be posed open 😟

 

1:47:11  and 1:48:37  ... you can hear the gasps of amazement from those Japanese dudes regarding the cockpit details and the Bleed Air Holes  :woot.gif:

 

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Here are few images taken from that "short" 10 hour internet "event".

 

2JhnxsW.jpg

 

 

eP1rSkG.jpg

 

ty5GBrP.jpg

 

 

On one of the pages there was a short film showing how the instruments were laser engraved on the press tool.

Well the final result is Phantastic! All this in 72nd scale!

 

4znmLwj.jpg

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

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3 hours ago, JackMan said:

 Thanks, Gabor :thumbsup:

 

You are welcome!  Absolutely no problem. 

 

I think the really interesting (I mean boring) part of it was looking throught the 10 hour online interviews. I am sure for someone who speaks the language it was really interesting to have some insight and have company reps, like in this case from FineMolds explaining some of the details in the kit and the given markings. 

 

 

Here are few more images.

 

The cockpit from side view. Remember this is 72nd scale!!!!!!! I hope that some Zvezda people are looking at this.

 

yVF7543.jpg

 

 

The tail section with some fine details.

 

t5lhJUZ.jpg

 

Inner details of those auxiliary relief doors on the underside.

 

FEsOrRg.jpg

 

Some sprue details. I believe these are particular parts for the Japanese F-4E Kai version judging by the nose cone details.

 

Vuu1aHs.jpg

 

Under some light conditions the perforation on the spliter plate is not visible. But it is there!

 

c8cCh6m.jpg

 

Best regards

Gabor

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I am having problems trying to post here for the last couple of days ... so let's see what happens.  :pray:

 

There are several group videos showing up with sprue shots -- this is the video I'm addressing. Sprue shots start at 30:17 and run to 45:02 where the discussion turns to the "supplemental" kits -- the metal Pitot and Ram Air Bellows tubes, and the Armament set.

 

The good detail shots start with the interior of the Aux Doors and include the details Gabor posted plus more like this one showing , among other things, the separate fuselage spine piece containing the fuel cell access panels and the Air Refueling Door:

 

d0ADz8K.png

 

Appears the fuselage top sprues were not yet available, so I'm looking forward to that! 

 

The only (minor) disappointment I have is the lack of separate speed brakes, but that's minor considering what appears to be an outstanding kit!

 

The "new" FineMolds F-14 has it's own page on their site, so I'm looking forward to the Phantoms having the same.

 

Craig astutely posited that the above sprue could be replaced in different boxings since it has variant-specific parts - the spine, pylons, nose gear, bridle hook blanks, and specific centerline tank ... so  FineMolds producing other Phantom models is more of a "definite possibility".  :hmmm:

 

Gene K

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3 minutes ago, GeneK said:

Appears the fuselage top sprues were not yet available, so I'm looking forward to that!

 

sprue could be replaced in different boxings since it has variant-specific parts - the spine, pylons, nose gear, bridle hook blanks, and specific centerline tank ...

 

Curious why the nose gear leg is included on that sprue. I thought only the B, J, N and S version had a different strut.

 

Leaving out any discussion of the K and M, a topic in itself.

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9 minutes ago, Craig Baldwin said:

Curious why the nose gear leg is included on that sprue. I thought only the B, J, N and S version had a different strut.

 

So that they could produce those variants, of course.:clap2:

 

Gene K

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45 minutes ago, GeneK said:

 

There are several group videos showing up with sprue shots -- this is the video I'm addressing. Sprue shots start at 30:17 and run to 45:02 where the discussion turns to the "supplemental" kits -- the metal Pitot and Ram Air Bellows tubes, and the Armament set.

 

 

Gene K

 

Hi Gene,

 

I could not find the part where the tools are shown. Is that in the same 10 hour video? Or somewhere else?

 

Best regards

Gabor

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that there's potential for the J79 short nose versions to appear. A Spey powered jet is probably too much to dream for though. The way the parts are laid out surely indicates that they are considering expanding into the other marks. It's a good pointer that a lot of research has gone in when we finally have a near vertical aft bulkhead in the rear cockpit. If Fine Molds do do a full Phamily these could potentially be the definitive 1/72 F-4s.

 

A little off-topic, but related, jump forward to about 2:15:30 in the video linked by Craing and Gene. There's a showing of Z-M's 1/48 kit with a discussion of the research into their F-4E. Is anyone able to provide a summary of the conversation?

 

Gene, any chance of larger versions of the photos to the left of the tank & upper fuselage frame? Like Gabor I couldn't find these.

 

Roll on August!

 

Jonathan

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3 hours ago, GeneK said:

 

Craig astutely posited that the above sprue could be replaced in different boxings since it has variant-specific parts - the spine, pylons, nose gear, bridle hook blanks, and specific centerline tank ... so  FineMolds producing other Phantom models is more of a "definite possibility".  :hmmm:

 

Gene K

 

Hi,

 

I just can't imagine a reason why they'd have made the separate bridle hook blanks if they weren't planning to do naval Phantoms.:thumbsup:

 

Cheers, Stefan.

 

 

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After watching a review video, on the 1/72 scale FineMolds F-14 Tomcat - this Fine

Molds F-4 Phantom kit should be a Top-notch example in this scale! Pretty exciting

news and updates on the progress being made so far.

 

Edited by The Underdog
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