AH-1T Desert Storm

[757flyer]

I am working on a 1/72 AH-1T in Desert Storm colors.  I know there were few of this type deployed, and so far I have only been able to find one photo that I *think* is of the appropriate timeframe:

 

 

From the looks of the photo, the aircraft's original three-color land camo (black, green, gray) was overpainted with what appears to be FS36375.  The underlying camo can be seen in some areas.  It would seem that some of the markings (MARINES, BuNo, tail codes, nose numbers) were repainted, but the national insignia was not...

 

Am I correct in thinking the aircraft is overall FS36375, with the bleed through of the underlying camo explaining some of the variation?  The nose numbers appear black, while the markings aft look more like FS36118.  Would that be plausible?  

 

Thanks for any help

 

[Whiskey]

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6465062

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6465063

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6466130

(This is in B/W however if you zoom in you can clearly see it is tri-color camo)

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6470010

(Also a tri-color camo one hiding on deck)

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6464929

 

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/6467876

[Sarathi S.]

You're correct, 269's MEU birds painted over the 3-color with gray they had on the ship. 

[757flyer]

Whiskey,

 

Many thanks for the pics.  I had found a few of those that were -Js (first two photos), which seemed to show the same overpainting of the tri-color camo with a light gray. 

 

Sarathi,

 

Thanks for the confirmation on 269's paint use.  From what I can find, only 3 -Ts were deployed with them.

 

I know basing color matches off photos is not 100% accurate, but to me the gray used appears close to 36375.  Until I try it out on some scrap plastic, I think I will plan to go with that...

 

Thanks for the help!

Mike

 

[Whiskey]

I don't think that statement about what was painted over what is entirely 100% accurate. I found this picture of what is supposed to be the USS Nassau en route to the Persian Gulf and if you look closely there is a tri-color Sea Cobra at the very end of the row of aircraft. There is also a full gray one as well.

 

 

I think, and this is my opinion, that all the aircraft were painted grey. Then they started to paint the tri-color as they were underway. Now it's possible that they re-painted some of the all grey because that's all the pain they had left after extensive operations. If you look at pictures of AH-1W's during Desert Shield/Storm they were a mess of camoflauge. Same thing could be here but they didn't have enough green so they just went over them with all grey.

 

As a side note here is a photo of HMM-261 in August of 1991 during Operation Sharp Edge. Same time frame.

 

 

Also I've been able to count 4 AH-1T's, not 3.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Whiskey

[Sarathi S.]

A coworker was on that MEU with 269, they had 4 Ts.  Also as per anecdotal evidence by Supercobra, who I believe was also with 269 during that timeframe, the Cobras on the Nassau were painted over in gray while underway, the Whiskeys they put on a shore det were to receive the same treatment but didn't have enough of the correct gray, so they painted over the green with black instead, giving rise to the Shamu scheme that 269 wore throughout the 90s.

 

Also, Sharp Edge was in 1990, not 91, and I'm not certain those were 269's helos.

 

Regarding painting the gray, I would try light coats of 35237 as that's what they most likely would have gone with.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Sarathi S.

[757flyer]

Thanks again guys for the additional information!  Will have to see if I can track down the serials and more photos of the 4 -Ts.  So far, I have only been able to confirm 160818.  From that good shot of the gaggle of AH-1s and UH-1s Whiskey linked, the -T in it that had gotten the overpaint did not have tail letters or a serial number reapplied (at least at the time the photo was taken).  

 

I will take a look at 35237 as well - that would make sense to have used it.

 

Mike

[Whiskey]

1 hour ago, Sarathi S. said:

A coworker was on that MEU with 269, they had 4 Ts.  Also as per anecdotal evidence by Supercobra, who I believe was also with 269 during that timeframe, the Cobras on the Nassau were painted over in gray while underway, the Whiskeys they put on a shore det were to receive the same treatment but didn't have enough of the correct gray, so they painted over the green with black instead, giving rise to the Shamu scheme that 269 wore throughout the 90s.

 

Also, Sharp Edge was in 1990, not 91, and I'm not certain those were 269's helos.

 

Regarding painting the gray, I would try light coats of 35237 as that's what they most likely would have gone with.

 

Cool. Nice bit of extra info. My mistake about the year for Sharp Edge, fat fingers on the phone. And no they weren't 269's, they were HMM-261 as I stated. I put the picture up there to just show that there were -T's using the 3 color scheme during ODS in other theaters.

[Tank]

29 minutes ago, Whiskey said:

 

Cool. Nice bit of extra info. My mistake about the year for Sharp Edge, fat fingers on the phone. And no they weren't 269's, they were HMM-261 as I stated. I put the picture up there to just show that there were -T's using the 3 color scheme during ODS in other theaters.

261 is a 46 squadron. When on a MEU, other aircraft are added to the command squadron usual a 46 squadron. All the birds get marked with the that unit’s info. That’s why you can see 53,  Cobra or Harrier marked with HMM-whatever and matching tailcodes but the aircraft belong to the parent unit like a HMLA-269.

 

269 was on the Nassau.

http://www.gonavy.jp/meuA04f.html

 

261 at Sharpe Edge was on the Saipan. Those -T were from 167. 
http://www.gonavy.jp/meu22f.html

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Tank

[Tank]

This may help or hurt your color search. Reader Digest, grey was lightly oversprayed and the underline color changed the look.

http://www.zone-five.net/showpost.php?p=24217&postcount=7

 

HTH

[Sarathi S.]

What Tank said

[757flyer]

Tank,

 

Thanks for the link.  I had read a couple places about the overspray not being fully opaque, which explains the look of the national insignia above.  Will do a paint test to see how best to replicate the look of the nat'l insignia and the faint sections of the black and green camo pattern.  Interesting to see in the AH-1W pics in the Zone-Five thread that on some birds, they didn't bother to restore the nat'l insignia that got partially painted over, but they did go back and repaint the MARINES titles.

 

Mike 

[Tank]

I would paint a regular three tone scheme and add the stars and bars decal. Spray super thinned grey over the model in a few light coats til happy. Then added the other black decals. Use smoke for the tail soot. 

[Whiskey]

Thanks Tank for the clarification. Guess I shouldn't read too much on the National Archives website.

[Tank]

It’s a tough call. The byline was written by a service member when taking the photograph but those folks are trained in photography/media and don’t always know the inner workings of the subject matter being photographed/article written.

[Whiskey]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

It’s a tough call. The byline was written by a service member when taking the photograph but those folks are trained in photography/media and don’t always know the inner workings of the subject matter being photographed/article written.

 

Totally true. I do find errors a lot on the designation for an aircraft all the time. I suppose I should have know it would be that way for, well, everything.

[Sarathi S.]

I've seen an official DOD photographer refer to a Yankee as a Cobra before.  That was entertaining.

[JakubJakepilot]

Hi, the only BuNo I have for AH-1T is 160818/HF-17. Two pics are on my site.