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Mystery of the Eduard Brassin FFAR rockets


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7 minutes ago, Andrew CJ56 said:

Thank you Corey that is very helpful

 

I wonder if any made it as far as the Korean war or were they all expended in WWII?

I never say never but, I would think that they had been expended in WW2, then replaced late war by HVARs.  

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6 hours ago, Corey said:

I never say never but, I would think that they had been expended in WW2, then replaced late war by HVARs.  

Yes, once the HVAR's came out FFAR's quickly went away and were basically out of service by the end of the war. They were still in inventory but no one really used them due to their slow speed and unreliable ballistics. The FFAR was mainly used in the Atlantic against submarines, I don't recall any being used in the Pacific.

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No.   Those are not FFAR’s.   They are WW2 vintage 3.5” aerial rockets.  These were used in all theaters of the war but were found to be lacking and were replaced with the 5” HVAR’s.   FFAR’s first saw combat in Vietnam and are still in service today.  

Edited by 11bee
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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

FFAR’s first saw combat in Vietnam and are still in service today.  

To clarify:

 

The USN/USMC hasn't used the FFAR since the early 80's and the USAF has stopped using them about 10 years ago, not sure about the USA.

 

The WAFFAR (Wrap Around Forward Firing Aerial Rocket) replaced the FFAR, it uses a different rocket motor and fins.

 

The USAF and USA does not use 5.0" rockets so the 5.0" FFAR has been out of service since the early 80's in the US Military.

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

No.   Those are not FFAR’s.   They are WW2 vintage 3.5” aerial rockets.  These were used in all theaters of the war but were found to be lacking and were replaced with the 5” HVAR’s.   FFAR’s first saw combat in Vietnam and are still in service today.  


you did see my post that two different weapon systems had the same acronym (F, another F, an A and R) coincidentally applied?  We are not confusing the two. 

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51 minutes ago, Corey said:


you did see my post that two different weapon systems had the same acronym (F, another F, an A and R) coincidentally applied?  We are not confusing the two. 

Yep. I think we need a score card;

 

FFAR - Forward Firing Aerial Rocket - used from 43 to early 50's, various sizes from 2.25 to 11.75 inch

HVAR - High Velocity Aerial Rocket - used from 44 to mid 60's, 5.0" only

FFAR - Folding Fin Aerial Rocket - used from the early 50's to today, 2.75" and 5.0"

WAFFAR - Wrap Around Folding Fin Aerial Rocket - used from the late 70's to present day, 2.75" and 5.0"

 

The Eduard resin FFAR rockets appear to be 5.0" Mk 1 Mod 0 FFAR. The Mk 1 Mod 0 consisted of Mk 7 Mod 0 3.25" Rocket Motor, a Mk 1 Mod 0 5.0" Warhead and a Mk 148 Mod 0 Fuze.

 

A common misconception is that the size of the rocket is determined by the rocket motor, it is not, it is determined by the size of the warhead, hence the Mk 1 Mod 0 Rocket being a 5.0" but it's motor is only a 3.25".

 

Source for Mk 1 Mod 0, FFAR and HVAR info - Rocket Ballistic Data by California Institute of Technology published in 1946

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What about the Zuni?  Was that a 5” rocket?  
 

WRT the 2.75” FFAR, the US Army still uses them, pretty sure the Marines do as well, at least from helos.   Some of these are now laser guided.  

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1 hour ago, 11bee said:

What about the Zuni?  Was that a 5” rocket?  
 

WRT the 2.75” FFAR, the US Army still uses them, pretty sure the Marines do as well, at least from helos.   Some of these are now laser guided.  

Yes, the Zuni was 5.0" while the 2.75" was known as the Mighty Mouse, both were Folding Fin Aerial Rockets

 

No, the USMC does not use the 2.75" FFAR, stopped using them in the early 80's when the Navy did, now they use the 2.75" WAFFAR.

 

The difference between the 2.75" and 5.0" FFAR and the 2.75" and 5.0" WAFFAR is the rocket motor and (of course) the fins (which is a separate component from the motor). The 2.75" FFAR used the Mk 4 and Mk 40 series rocket motor, the 2.75" WAFFAR uses the Mk 66 series (currently the Mk 66 Mod 4). The 5.0" FFAR used the Mk 16 rocket motor while the WAFFAR uses the Mk 71 series (currently the Mk 71 Mod 1 and 2).

 

You could not put a FFAR fin on a WAFFAR motor and vice versa.

 

And a couple of corrections, the 5.0" FFAR was introduced in 1959 and were in service until the mid/late 80's.

Edited by GW8345
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