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dai phan

Please advise on a good camera to do upclose shots.

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Posted (edited)

Hi all

I have seen many amazing close up photos and I would like you all to recommend me a good camera to use. I have Canon EOS T6 Rebel and I still have hard time getting quality close up photos. Thanks all. This is the best close up I could do. These are the blurry photos of my WIP and not as sharp as I like.  I just ordered a macro lens as advised on the manual. Dai 

 

KnwutZF.jpg

 

17oys8A.jpg

Edited by dai phan

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You will also need a tripod.

 

The camera doesn't matter. The macro lens and tripod do.

 

Bob

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Aren't there some tricks of the trade, for instance using aperture priority and setting the f-stop as high as it will go? Then bright light, tripod and long exposure times?  I used to have an EOS Rebel back when everything was still film and started to get into taking pics of my models. I was trying to get as much depth of focus as possible. I know there are some experienced photographers here and I too would like to know more. I may have access to a digital EOS Rebel and if I can clear out some space I too would like to take some pics and prove that I actually do build models. :whistle:

 

P.S. I doubt I can afford to buy a macro lens.

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8 minutes ago, Mstor said:

Aren't there some tricks of the trade, for instance using aperture priority and setting the f-stop as high as it will go? Then bright light, tripod and long exposure times?  I used to have an EOS Rebel back when everything was still film and started to get into taking pics of my models. I was trying to get as much depth of focus as possible. I know there are some experienced photographers here and I too would like to know more. I may have access to a digital EOS Rebel and if I can clear out some space I too would like to take some pics and prove that I actually do build models. :whistle:

 

P.S. I doubt I can afford to buy a macro lens.

I was looking on EB and I got the 58mm HD wide angle lens and macro lens for 29 bucks new. The manufacturer is Vivitar. Dai  

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1 minute ago, dai phan said:

I was looking on EB and I got the 58mm HD wide angle lens and macro lens for 29 bucks new. The manufacturer is Vivitar. Dai  

 

Thanks, that sounds like a really good price. Let me know what they are like. Used?

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Mstor said:

 

Thanks, that sounds like a really good price. Let me know what they are like. Used?

Brand new. Must be Chinese product and not Canon's. Dai 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/58MM-HD-WIDE-ANGLE-LENS-MACRO-LENS-FOR-CANON-EF-75-300mm-REBEL-EOS-T3-T5-T6-T7/163816977180?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

Edited by dai phan

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1 hour ago, Mstor said:

Aren't there some tricks of the trade, for instance using aperture priority and setting the f-stop as high as it will go? Then bright light, tripod and long exposure times?

 

You need to stop down the lens aperture to increase depth of field. A smaller aperture requires a slower shutter speed for proper exposure. A slower shutter speed requires a tripod to keep the camera steady.  You also may need to increase your distance from the model to increase depth of field, then crop the image to get your "close-up".  A T6i has an 18 MP sensor, for web-based pictures you don't need a full 18 MP image up close, there will be plenty of resolution for the web in a cropped image.

 

Do a search on "hyperfocal distance" to better understand the relationship between lens aperture and depth of field.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dai phan said:

 

Based on that listing, I think what you bought was not two lenses, but rather add-on "lenses" for the 75-300 canon lens. It's like wide and and tele lenses for an iPhone.

 

You need a true macro lens, small f/stop, tripod, and lots of light and practice.

 

Based on your second photo above, you may have what you need. With sufficient light and a tripod and the lens you used (the 75-300?) You may be okay. That photo is quite sharp.

 

Habu2 had some good advice.

 

Bob

Edited by Bob Beary

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4 hours ago, habu2 said:

 

You need to stop down the lens aperture to increase depth of field. A smaller aperture requires a slower shutter speed for proper exposure. A slower shutter speed requires a tripod to keep the camera steady.  You also may need to increase your distance from the model to increase depth of field, then crop the image to get your "close-up".  A T6i has an 18 MP sensor, for web-based pictures you don't need a full 18 MP image up close, there will be plenty of resolution for the web in a cropped image.

 

Do a search on "hyperfocal distance" to better understand the relationship between lens aperture and depth of field.

 

 

 

That's exactly what I was trying to remember. As usual, I was clueless when it came to the correct terminology. Thanks habu2!

 

Anyone try working with pinhole photography? Looks like there are various pinhole adapters available. Don't have a clue as to which are any good. Nice thing about digital photography is that one can experiment without having to worry about the cost of film. That used to be a big limiting factor. Just bracketing a shot would use up lots of film and unless one developed their own pics, it all was a slow process. Now its so much easier.

 

Well, sorry for hijacking your thread Dai. I'm just trying to find something to get myself out of a rut and back into building.

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4 hours ago, Bob Beary said:

 

Based on that listing, I think what you bought was not two lenses, but rather add-on "lenses" for the 75-300 canon lens. It's like wide and and tele lenses for an iPhone.

 

You need a true macro lens, small f/stop, tripod, and lots of light and practice.

 

Based on your second photo above, you may have what you need. With sufficient light and a tripod and the lens you used (the 75-300?) You may be okay. That photo is quite sharp.

 

Habu2 had some good advice.

 

Bob

So do you think what I bought will improve the quality of the close up shots? I have problems of some areas being blurry. Dai 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, dai phan said:

I was looking on EB and I got the 58mm HD wide angle lens and macro lens for 29 bucks new. The manufacturer is Vivitar. Dai  


I don’t mean to sound harsh but you are wasting money on those.  Good glass costs good money, and any cheap add-ons like you listed are going to suck in corner resolution. You don’t need to spend a ton on a macro lens, and true macro photography has incredibly shallow depth of field. 
 

You don’t say what lens you are using on your T6 body but IMO the lens is not the problem. Back up from your subject. Put the camera on a tripod and select aperture priority (AV) mode and set your aperture to f/8 or smaller. Set your ISO to 400 if you are indoors and using artificial light. Let the camera pick the shutter speed. Don’t freak out if your exposure is extremely long/slow, that’s why you need a tripod. If you still don’t have enough DoF then stop down to f/11 or f/16 and try again. You have a fully adjustable camera that is capable of taking the picture you want, you just need to learn how to use it. 
 

Been doing photography for almost 50 years, try this and I guarantee your pics will be better. 
 

.

 

Edited by habu2

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Posted (edited)

You WILL need a tripod....EVERY TIME. Also use the 2 second delay or a remote shutter so your hands are well and truly off the camera at the point of shooting. You will need to know the basics /get an understanding of your camera and how it works and this WILL take time and effort to get to know. I`ve been wanting a macro lens for quite some time but it`s not that high on my priority list. Those two photos you uploaded isn`t really macro material. Wacro is way more up close and personal. Lighting is important and may not always work to your advantage unless you know what you are doing. You have most control of lighting in manual mode. Maybe you could consider shooting WAR so you can have all the data, not just some of it like JPEG but JPEG is easier to work with. You may want to edit your photos in Lightroom after the fact. There is a lot you can do to bring forth a photograph using digital software solutions. REALLY. And while you`re at it, do get a spare battery for your camera. Preferably one with a higher capacity than what you already have if possibru.

Edited by breadneck

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4 hours ago, habu2 said:

Back up from your subject. Put the camera on a tripod and select aperture priority (AV) mode and set your aperture to f/8 or smaller. Set your ISO to 400 if you are indoors and using artificial light. Let the camera pick the shutter speed. Don’t freak out if your exposure is extremely long/slow, that’s why you need a tripod. If you still don’t have enough DoF then stop down to f/11 or f/16 and try again. You have a fully adjustable camera that is capable of taking the picture you want, you just need to learn how to use it. 

 

When I was experimenting, I used the smallest aperture on my camera, f/22 I think. Tripod a must as exposure times were long (I used aperture priority). I was just starting to experiment but didn't get very far. Some of the photos came out OK, good depth of field. That's a reason I was interested in pinhole photography, its nearly infinite depth of field. I remember seeing pinhole photos of models that looked like they were taken of the real thing.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, habu2 said:

 

 You also may need to increase your distance from the model to increase depth of field, then crop the image to get your "close-up". 

 

 

The line above is the easy way to get  good clear images with decent depth of field. As well as the obvious - using a tripod and manual aperture setting. With that I think F16 is about is low as you need to go, any lower just brings slower ans slower shutter speed.

 

Even for close ups you're better cropping a larger /wider image than zooming right in 

Edited by a4s4eva

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, dai phan said:

Hi all

I have seen many amazing close up photos and I would like you all to recommend me a good camera to use. I have Canon EOS T6 Rebel and I still have hard time getting quality close up photos. Thanks all. This is the best close up I could do. These are the blurry photos of my WIP and not as sharp as I like.  I just ordered a macro lens as advised on the manual. Dai

 

I *always* use a telelens for my model photography, not a macro lens. If you have one too, give it a try.

 

With a good tripod of course - I mis-spent a lot of time with a tripod that would vibrate with the shutter. I solved that initially with a sandbag on the camera, then upgraded to a better tripod.

 

Here are some random model photos that I made recently. I use a fairly old Nikon D70s with a cheap-ish 55-200 mm lens, stopped down to f20.

 

snowspeeder-09.jpg

 

g1-66.jpg

 

rsrturbo-13.jpg

 

lm-28.jpg

 

stuka-19.jpg

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rob de Bie

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59 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

 

I *always* use a telelens for my model photography, not a macro lens. If you have one too, give it a try.

 

With a good tripod of course - I mis-spent a lot of time with a tripod that would vibrate with the shutter. I solved that initially with a sandbag on the camera, then upgraded to a better tripod.

 

Here are some random model photos that I made recently. I use a fairly old Nikon D70s with a cheap-ish 55-200 mm lens, stopped down to f20.

 

snowspeeder-09.jpg

 

g1-66.jpg

 

rsrturbo-13.jpg

 

lm-28.jpg

 

stuka-19.jpg

 

Rob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These quality photos are exactly I am looking for. I can do the same with Canon Rebel EOS T6? The lens I used is EFS 18-55 mm, Macro .25m/0.8 feet. I just type what I see on the thing. I also have a longer zoom lens( not used) EF 75-300mm, 1.5m/4.9 feet, 1:4-5.6. No idea what these mean. Dai 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, dai phan said:

These quality photos are exactly I am looking for. I can do the same with Canon Rebel EOS T6? The lens I used is EFS 18-55 mm, Macro .25m/0.8 feet. I just type what I see on the thing. I also have a longer zoom lens( not used) EF 75-300mm, 1.5m/4.9 feet, 1:4-5.6. No idea what these mean. Dai 

 

I'm pretty sure that you can do the same. Contrary to most other replies, I suggest to use the EF 75-300mm zoom telelens. Take distance to the model  (1.5 m minimum apparently) and zoom in. Use a tripod, there is no way you can do this freehand. If you don't have a tripod, maybe you can improvise with a sandbag to stabilize the camera on.

 

It sounds like you don't know your camera well. You will need to understand it a bit, since you need to get the aperture / diafragm down to say f20, otherwise your field of depth is too small. On my camera I have a 'A' mode where you can select the aperture, and the camera selects the shutter speed. I usually use the 'M' (manual) mode where I select both aperture and shutter speed myself. But you can start with the A mode. And absoutely use the self-timer to eliminate your finger force on the camera.

 

If you managed all of the above, you're halfway towards good model photos. The other half is lighting. But try to get the camera settings right first.

 

Also, realize this will be a learning process. If I look at photos from say five years ago, I can see that I've improved quite a bit.


Rob

Edited by Rob de Bie

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19 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

I'm pretty sure that you can do the same. Contrary to most other replies, I suggest to use the EF 75-300mm zoom telelens. Take distance to the model  (1.5 m minimum apparently) and zoom in.


The minimum focusing distance quoted is for the minimum focal length.  As you zoom in the min focusing distance will increase.  Don't assume you have to be inches from the model to take a "close-up", move back several feet and zoom in.

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43 minutes ago, dai phan said:

I also have a longer zoom lens( not used) EF 75-300mm, 1.5m/4.9 feet, 1:4-5.6. No idea what these mean. Dai 

 

EF is the Canon lens mount type

 

75-300mm is the focal length (min-max) of your zoom lens

 

1.5m/4.9ft is the minimum focusing distance (at 75mm focal length)

 

1:4-5.6 is the maximum aperture of the lens (f/4.0 @75mm, f/5.6 @300mm)

 

Note the f/stop (aperture) is a reciprocal. When you see 4 on your aperture setting it is really f/4 or a circle with a diameter 1/4 of your focal length.  When you see 16 on your aperture setting it is really f/16 or a circle with a diameter 1/16th of your focal length. So the "bigger" the number the smaller the aperture, the greater the depth of field, and the less amount of light reaching your sensor.

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Let's compare your camera to your airbrush:

 

The airbrush needle size and setting controls the amount of paint coming out of the airbrush.  The lens aperture controls the amount of light coming into your camera.

 

The airbrush trigger controls how long paint comes out of the airbrush.  The shutter speed control how long light comes into your camera.

 

You can also think of minimum focusing distance as how close you can get your airbrush to a model and still get a good result.

 

I can't think of an analogy for depth of field on an airbrush.

 

Canon has an excellent series of on-line tutorials, I suggest watching a few to help you understand your camera.

 

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/learn/education/topics/article/2018/August/Canon-EOS-101-Photography-and-Videography-Basics/Canon-EOS-101-Photography-and-Videography-Basics

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/0taULWDk8fY

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/5PXboZpl-mY

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/no-zxb3cDio

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I have used a macro lens, a wireless remote and good steady tripod to do some closeup photography. 

 

You dont need a new camera. You need a macro lens that fits your camera. Usually take pictures at high f-stops like f/20 or f/22 to fully focus the object at close range.  

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235062402-opel-blitz-with-flak-38-dragon-kit/

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You Don’t Need A Macro Lens. You’re taking pictures of a model airplane, not a fly’s eye or the corner of a postage stamp. 
 

You can make any lens a close-up lens with simple extension tubes. A true Macro lens isn’t just designed for close-up photography, a true Macro lens is specially designed to focus on a flat field rather than a constant radial distance from the focal plane. You don’t need that (flat field) capability for model photography. 
 

The closer you get to your subject the shallower your depth of field will be. You can shoot a model from 10 feet away at f/4 and have more depth of field than if you shot at 10 inches away at f/22. Look at those super closeups of a fly’s eye and you will often see only part of the eye is in focus, that’s because it is practically impossible to get decent DoF at such close distances. 
 

You have all the camera and lens you need to take the pictures you want, you just need to understand how to use the features of what you have to get the desired result. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, dai phan said:

These quality photos are exactly I am looking for. I can do the same with Canon Rebel EOS T6? The lens I used is EFS 18-55 mm, Macro .25m/0.8 feet. I just type what I see on the thing. I also have a longer zoom lens( not used) EF 75-300mm, 1.5m/4.9 feet, 1:4-5.6. No idea what these mean. Dai 

There have already been a lot of good posts in reply to your question.  In case you're wondering if you need to invest in another lens or upgrade your camera body, the general consensus here is that you do NOT need to.   

 

In addition to the what everyone has posted,  here's my simplified list.

 

1) Use a tripod on as stable surface as reasonable.  

2) If possible, shoot outside in the shade or on an overcast day.   The more overall light the better, but resist the urge to put the subject in direct sunlight as it causes harsh shadows and highlights.

3) Set your camera ISO to 100, 200, or 400.

4) Set the wheel on your camera to Av (aperture value) mode.   Set the aperture to somewhere around F10 to F14 on the LCD screen.

5) If you're shooting exposure times are longer than 1 second, turn the image stabilizer "OFF".

6) Use "MANUAL" focus.   

7) Take as many pictures as you want and try setting the Av value to different settings.   You're shooting digital so you can delete any images you don't like.

8)  I like the airbrush analogy! Once you get comfy with your camera, you'll get a "feel" for the settings.

 

I think there is a Canon app now for the newer Canon dSLR bodies.   There is a technique to lock the viewfinder mirror "UP" and look for a feature called the words "Bulb release" or "Cable Release".  What you're looking for is way to trigger the shutter through your phone instead of you pressing the shutter button on the camera.   The point of all this is to reduce "camera shake" which will cause blurry images.

 

There used to be cards with tables that showed "depth of field" distances for different camera lenses.   Camera lenses used to "depth of field" lines on the lens, too.    

 

Take home ideas -

1 - If you don't have a tripod, get one.   You don't need to buy any other new hardware.  

2 - You have a capable camera.  

3 - Play with your camera's settings and take as many pictures as you like.   You're not shooting film.

4 - Don't let all the camera terms intimidate you.   Remember, there was a time when you didn't know what "gap-filling", "post-shade", "washes" and "dry-brushing" techniques were.   After you tried them, you learned how/when to use them.

4 - Have fun and keep learning stuff about your camera.   You will learn camera techniques for modelling and those techniques will transfer to situations beyond modelling.   There are principles you will learn about your current camera that will work on cameras in the future.   (You can't change the rules of physics unless you're a StarFleet Engineer named "Montgomery Scott".)

 

Edited by John B

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Posted (edited)

Most others have covered the points well here.  To approach a couple of them from a different perspective...

 

1. Your struggle here is depth of field.  Depth of field the span of the nearest in focus element to the furthest in focus element.  Shallow depths of field leave you with most of your background blurry.  I'd suggest looking up depth of field and aperture on google, as you'll likely find some good diagrams that make it visually clear what's happening here.  For detail shots, we typically want more or all the picture to be in focus.  This is actually the opposite of what's done for portraits where a shallow depth of field is used to blur the background, focusing the attention on the subject. 

 

2. There are three variables to depth of field.  Depth of field gets worse (shallower) at lower apertures (more open), shorter focus depth, and longer focal lengths.  Often, only the first is considered.  But close up "macro" work will definitely push us closer to subject (less depth of field).  And/or, we're trying to zoom in with a longer focal length.  Focus depth is more critical than focal length, so you can overcome this some by a telephoto lens from further away.

 

3. Stopping down (decreasing the aperture, higher f numbers) will start to dramatically decrease the amount of light entering the shutter.  It functions as a power of 2, so quickly doubles, then quadruples, and so on.  This will increase you're shutter speed significantly for equal lighting conditions.  This is why people have recommended a tripod, as your shutter speeds may be too slow to hold steady in your hands.  My shutter speeds for model photography are typically about 1/5 to 1/10 of a second.  Usually anything slower than 1/30 of a second is considered too slow to hold the camera steady for the whole exposure.  Increased lighting will also help reduce shutter speeds and with tight apertures.  My photo tent has 8,000 lumens...it's a lot of light.

 

4. A macro lens by definition is a lens that will make a life size image of the subject on the film/sensor (1:1 scale).  Most typically, the major factor for these lenses is the ability to focus at very close distance.  Often 3-6" compared to 12-18" of a "standard lens".  Focal length is also used sometimes to increase the size of the object.  I agree for most "portraits" of models, true macro photography is not necessary.  We can easily zoom in from a couple feet away.  However, if you're wanting to take detail pictures of cockpits, landing gear wells, etc, macro is very useful.  In fact, macro lenses tend to be a higher optical quality and are often well suited to portrait type photography as well.  Unless I'm doing astrophotography (high zoom, sometimes 600 mm attached to a telescope) or landscapes (wide angle short focal length), most of my picture taking is with my 40 mm f/2.8 macro lens.  It’s not commonly used for macro, just regular distance.  But it’s a a good quality, relatively fast, prime lens. I have a 50 mm non-macro prime lens, but the 50 mm more zoom than I want. The advantage of that one is it’s “faster”, up to f/1.4. So it’s valuable in dark areas...such as wedding receptions. FYI, the f/number reported with lens is the most "open" the aperture can be.  Almost any lens can be stopped down (I do have a 1,000 mm astro lens that is a fixed f/8).

 

5. There is a bit of a sweet spot for most lenses on f stops.  Typically between f/11 and f/18.  Smaller than f/18 often starts to suffer from chromatic abberation and starts to lose picture quality.  This is lens dependent.  But there is such a thing as "too much depth of field".

Edited by ESzczesniak

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