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MigMadMarine

Airbrush/brush painting and health

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Posted (edited)

Hello everyone,

 

I would like to know, when you model, where do you paint your kits, and with which kind of protections, whether it is with a brush an air brush and lacquer or acrylic paints.

 

In addition, do you have a special scale modelling outfit, or you use your regular clothes ?

 

I am going in again in modelling and I am kind afraid when I see that the paints and thinners are at best, harmful.

 

Thanks for your answers,

 

Regards

Edited by MigMadMarine
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Posted (edited)

I've never heard of anyone succumbing to our hobby? The warnings on paints/thinners and putties etc .... are there as we have now become a nanny World where common sense no longer seems the norm and law suits ready to fly around everywhere.  Obviously don't go drinking or eating the stuff and the only advice I would give is,  when using an airbrush then basic ventilation(open a window) wouldn't go amiss. I build in 1/48 and maybe build two kits a year so the amount of paint that I actually spray onto my kits doesn't in my opinion warrant a mask or spray booth, but I can see the benefits if you have a dedicated workshop and churning out model after model of installing one.

 

I use an airbrush with enamel paints/thinners, spray in the kitchen when everyone is out and no food being prep'd with the window open. Sometimes I wear shorts or jeans and always with a t-shirt, never in my underpants or naked as that would just be straight down freaky or perverted.

Edited by scotthldr

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40 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

I've never heard of anyone succumbing to our hobby? The warnings on paints/thinners and putties etc .... are there as we have now become a nanny World where common sense no longer seems the norm and law suits ready to fly around everywhere.  Obviously don't go drinking or eating the stuff and the only advice I would give is,  when using an airbrush then basic ventilation(open a window) wouldn't go amiss. I build in 1/48 and maybe build two kits a year so the amount of paint that I actually spray onto my kits doesn't in my opinion warrant a mask or spray booth, but I can see the benefits if you have a dedicated workshop and churning out model after model of installing one.

 

I use an airbrush with enamel paints/thinners, spray in the kitchen when everyone is out and no food being prep'd with the window open. Sometimes I wear shorts or jeans and always with a t-shirt, never in my underpants or naked as that would just be straight down freaky or perverted.

Thanks for the answer. Well I plan to build a bit more kits but I get your message. The thing is I hope that these chemicals are not dangerous in the long run.

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I've been airbrushing indoors in an enclosed room since the late 1980's using enamels, and later lacquers in the form of Alclad.  My health is fine other than a genetically-passed disorder, and my children had no birth defects.  Granted my webbed hands and third eye are a bit off-putting to folks when in public, especially in eating establishments....

 

A year and a half ago I started doing it outside on my patio in the beautiful Arizona mornings, or even later in the day for much of AZ's winters if the temps exceed 65F.  Probably for the better, just the point I'm at.

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Posted (edited)

Andrew with 3 eyes you can keep 2 on your instrument and 1 on the sheet music :tongue-in-cheek:

 

I started with Tamiya spray cans in my basement with an exhaust fan going then switched to airbrushing acrylic's so much healtheir and no complaints from above.

 

Don

 

 

Edited by DONG

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10 hours ago, MigMadMarine said:

<...> The thing is I hope that these chemicals are not dangerous in the long run.

 

With proper protection, they're not. But....

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." Attributed to Paracelsus (early 15th century).

 

Some of the chemicals used in modelling aren't good for your health when used without proper protection.

Your lung doesn't like fine airborne particles, whether they're from enamels, lacquers or acrylics. Just because you can't smell a paint or glue doesn't mean it can't be dangerous for your lung. Err on the side of caution. Use proper personal protection equipment. i.e. an appropriate respirator while airbrushing. A spray booth when painting indoors (either venting outside or with a proper filter). You may not see or smell them, but the fine airborne mist lingers for quite some time after you're done airbrushing.

 

Always wet sand resin to cut down on the dust as much possible.

 

There's enough sh!t in the air that'll go into your lung that you can't do anything about. For the stuff you can do something about, do it. Seriously. It doesn't hurt.

 

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11 hours ago, scotthldr said:

I've never heard of anyone succumbing to our hobby? <...>

 

That doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Unlikely? Yes. Impossible? Not at all.

 

11 hours ago, scotthldr said:

<....> The warnings on paints/thinners and putties etc .... are there as we have now become a nanny World where common sense no longer seems the norm and law suits ready to fly around everywhere.  <...>

 

No. The warnings are there because people don't know  - for example - what heck isocyanates will do to your body when exposed to them without protection.

See the pdf on "Safety working with Isocyanate" on the ZeroPaints website (LINK!).

Quoted from said pdf:

Quote

What are the dangers?
Exposure to isocyanates can cause long-term and lifethreatening illness.1 There is a risk if unreacted isocyanate is breathed in, or splashed onto the skin or into the eyes. Vapours, spray mists, and dusts containing isocyanates are highly irritant to the respiratory tract and eyes, and may cause or worsen existing asthma, or dermatitis

 

Working with 2-pack paints can lead to (allergic) sensitisation to isocyanates. Once someone is sensitised, further exposure to even very small amounts of isocyanates can start an
asthma attack. Attacks can take place immediately or be delayed for up to 12 hours after exposure, so the symptoms may occur away from work. Early signs of sensitisation may be runny/itchy eyes or nose, developing later into a wheeze, chest tightness, breathlessness or coughing.

<.....>

 

^^^And this stuff is marketed to scale modellers.

Common sense here IS the existence of warning labels so people know what they're exposing themselves to.

 

 

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14 hours ago, MigMadMarine said:

Hello everyone,

 

I would like to know, when you model, where do you paint your kits, and with which kind of protections, whether it is with a brush an air brush and lacquer or acrylic paints.

 

In addition, do you have a special scale modelling outfit, or you use your regular clothes ?

 

I am going in again in modelling and I am kind afraid when I see that the paints and thinners are at best, harmful.

 

Thanks for your answers,

 

Regards

If you airbrush you MUST have a spray booth. You can get one for under 100 bucks.  Look at the suction foam and it is a dirty as it can be. Imagine that stuff floating around w/o a spray booth. Hand painting just requires open window and fan to push the air out. All paints are harmful so you need spray booth and ventilation. Dai 

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My setup is minimal and nothing fancy: I model in the basement next to a large openable window. When I airbrush I stick a window fan in the window and wear a NiOSH approved respirator (with the replaceable cartridges for organic vapors) that I got on Amazon.  Wife is very sensitive/reactive to vapors/fumes/smells, so I gave up vacuforming/resin casting. For painting, I switched to acrylic paints. I mostly model during the summer when I can open the basement window. We have a pleasant screened in porch, so I also use that for gluing/assembly.


Bob in Louisville KY
 

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On 5/20/2020 at 6:41 PM, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

I've been airbrushing indoors in an enclosed room since the late 1980's using enamels, and later lacquers in the form of Alclad.  My health is fine other than a genetically-passed disorder, and my children had no birth defects.  Granted my webbed hands and third eye are a bit off-putting to folks when in public, especially in eating establishments....

 

A year and a half ago I started doing it outside on my patio in the beautiful Arizona mornings, or even later in the day for much of AZ's winters if the temps exceed 65F.  Probably for the better, just the point I'm at.

 

Hi Andrew, I am in the same situation as you, spraying/modelling in an enclosed space with no good air circulation. I would love to have a terrace, but its not my case yet. However what you say make me feel better towards my situation.

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On 5/20/2020 at 7:25 PM, DONG said:

Andrew with 3 eyes you can keep 2 on your instrument and 1 on the sheet music :tongue-in-cheek:

 

I started with Tamiya spray cans in my basement with an exhaust fan going then switched to airbrushing acrylic's so much healtheir and no complaints from above.

 

Don

 

 

Hi Don, acrylics such as Prince August ?

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14 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

With proper protection, they're not. But....

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison; the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison." Attributed to Paracelsus (early 15th century).

 

Some of the chemicals used in modelling aren't good for your health when used without proper protection.

Your lung doesn't like fine airborne particles, whether they're from enamels, lacquers or acrylics. Just because you can't smell a paint or glue doesn't mean it can't be dangerous for your lung. Err on the side of caution. Use proper personal protection equipment. i.e. an appropriate respirator while airbrushing. A spray booth when painting indoors (either venting outside or with a proper filter). You may not see or smell them, but the fine airborne mist lingers for quite some time after you're done airbrushing.

 

Always wet sand resin to cut down on the dust as much possible.

 

There's enough sh!t in the air that'll go into your lung that you can't do anything about. For the stuff you can do something about, do it. Seriously. It doesn't hurt.

 

 

Hello ChernayaAkula, thanks for your answer.

I will try to work on this, I dont have resin yet I just dry/wet sand plastic, so less harmful than resin, I think.

I will buy a proper respirator with filters, and for the paint booth, I want to make my own.

Actually I model and will likely brush paint in my room, for the airbrush i'll go on my "attic". What you say with the particules is scary enough for me to not spray at home.

 

Thanks for the answers.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

That doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Unlikely? Yes. Impossible? Not at all.

 

 

No. The warnings are there because people don't know  - for example - what heck isocyanates will do to your body when exposed to them without protection.

See the pdf on "Safety working with Isocyanate" on the ZeroPaints website (LINK!).

Quoted from said pdf:

 

^^^And this stuff is marketed to scale modellers.

Common sense here IS the existence of warning labels so people know what they're exposing themselves to.

 

 

What a great product, where can these Isocyantes can be found ? Other than in these paints ?

Edited by MigMadMarine

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13 hours ago, dai phan said:

If you airbrush you MUST have a spray booth. You can get one for under 100 bucks.  Look at the suction foam and it is a dirty as it can be. Imagine that stuff floating around w/o a spray booth. Hand painting just requires open window and fan to push the air out. All paints are harmful so you need spray booth and ventilation. Dai 

Hi DAI, thanks for your answer, I do not have an extractor yet but it can be a great investment.

 

For the spray booth, i'll build mine.

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5 hours ago, sierrascale said:

My setup is minimal and nothing fancy: I model in the basement next to a large openable window. When I airbrush I stick a window fan in the window and wear a NiOSH approved respirator (with the replaceable cartridges for organic vapors) that I got on Amazon.  Wife is very sensitive/reactive to vapors/fumes/smells, so I gave up vacuforming/resin casting. For painting, I switched to acrylic paints. I mostly model during the summer when I can open the basement window. We have a pleasant screened in porch, so I also use that for gluing/assembly.


Bob in Louisville KY
 

Thanks for the answer Bob, can you show me what can be this window fan please ?

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Posted (edited)

Brush painting acrylics is pretty safe as long as you don't ingest paint.  Enamals and lacquers need ventilation regardless of painting method.  Air brushing should be done with a respirator as it aerosolizes the paint and those tiny droplets can get deep into one's lungs.  A spray booth is a handy-dandy device for protecting your health and furniture.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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5 hours ago, MigMadMarine said:

<...>for the paint booth, I want to make my own.

<...>

What you say with the particules is scary enough for me to not spray at home.

 

I also built my own paint booth. I still wear a respirator when airbrushing, though.

I also wear a respirator when smoothing putty with Mr. Color Thinner.

 

Didn't mean to be scary. 😉 No, seriously. When handled properly, these things aren't harmful. To be able to handle them properly, you need to know what you're dealing and what the risks are.

 

5 hours ago, MigMadMarine said:

What a great product, where can these Isocyantes can be found ? Other than in these paints ?

 

No clue where these chemicals are used apart form these paints. And they're probably an extreme example as far as hobby supplies go, but I think they illustrate that there are indeed substances for hobby use that can be harmful if handled carelessly.

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I worry more about dust than carcinogens in paint.

 

Anyone ever been to London? Blow your nose after a day walking around London and it will be black. That will kill  you faster than minimal  exposure to paint.

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All the more reason not to add to the burden on your lungs.

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8 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Brush painting acrylics is pretty safe as long as you don't ingest paint.  Enamals and lacquers need ventilation regardless of painting method.  Air brushing should be done with a respirator as it aerosolizes the paint and those tiny droplets can get deep into one's lungs.  A spray booth is a handy-dandy device for protecting your health and furniture.

 

Hello, I am sometimes thinking about brush painting, but I do not think that I will have the results that I except, plus I have tons of Mr Hobby paints so doing the change would be a waste maybe.

For the respirator, i'll buy one for sure, and actually I don't know where to paint yet, my room seems to be a bad idea i think, however it is where I assemble my kit.

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6 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

I also built my own paint booth. I still wear a respirator when airbrushing, though.

I also wear a respirator when smoothing putty with Mr. Color Thinner.

 

Didn't mean to be scary. 😉 No, seriously. When handled properly, these things aren't harmful. To be able to handle them properly, you need to know what you're dealing and what the risks are.

 

 

No clue where these chemicals are used apart form these paints. And they're probably an extreme example as far as hobby supplies go, but I think they illustrate that there are indeed substances for hobby use that can be harmful if handled carelessly.

Wow great, what kind of fans you used to do the air extraction, computer fans or a blower ?

 

Yes I mean there are a lot of warnings on the hobby products. It is what it is.

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I was a paint and body man for 11 years and changed careers because my 40 and 45 year old coworkers looked like they were 65 and 70.  Anything pumped into your lungs is not good.  But the 2 part paints (as mentioned above) is really bad stuff if not wearing a proper respirator.  Not just a particle mask like an N95 or less, but a charcoal filtered cartridge mask.  Even better, fresh air. 

One guy that worked for me came in over the weekend and sprayed a car for a friend.  Dumbass forgot his mask and did it anyway.  He was at the Dr.s office with the asthma symptoms listed in the above post.  Dr. chewed his butt, and when he came back to work, I did too. 

 

Always have some sort of fresh air circulation when air brushing or brush painting.  I'm guilty of not doing it, but my shop is in a windowless basement.  I've got a 1/32 Blue Angels Skyhawk I'm spraying with decanted spray enamel this weekend.  Doing it out in the garage with the door open and a fan to move air. 

But I'm working on a vent solution for the basement now.

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8 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

All the more reason not to add to the burden on your lungs.

 

Now (Covid) is definitely not the time to chance an underlying health issue in your respiratory system.

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On 5/20/2020 at 11:41 AM, scotthldr said:

I've never heard of anyone succumbing to our hobby? The warnings on paints/thinners and putties etc .... are there as we have now become a nanny World where common sense no longer seems the norm and law suits ready to fly around everywhere.  Obviously don't go drinking or eating the stuff and the only advice I would give is,  when using an airbrush then basic ventilation(open a window) wouldn't go amiss. I build in 1/48 and maybe build two kits a year so the amount of paint that I actually spray onto my kits doesn't in my opinion warrant a mask or spray booth, but I can see the benefits if you have a dedicated workshop and churning out model after model of installing one.

 

I use an airbrush with enamel paints/thinners, spray in the kitchen when everyone is out and no food being prep'd with the window open. Sometimes I wear shorts or jeans and always with a t-shirt, never in my underpants or naked as that would just be straight down freaky or perverted.

BAHAHA!

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I agree with the points being made here that no exposure to any chemical, even the 'non-smelly acrylic' paint is good for any of us.  However, you must also take into account that each of us is an individual, and as such, we all have different sensitivities to varieties of things.  For example, my wife is exceedingly sensitive to things like pain medications, whereas I have a huge tolerance, and it take a lot more for me to achieve effective pain relief than it does for her.

 

I hope that MIchael Rinaldi won't be upset with me passing on what he has written to me about his experiences with lacquer paints.  Michael, for those who don't know, is a world renowned armor paint and weathering guru, with many books/publications to his credit.  He does spectacular work.  But, we have corresponded about various different paints, and he has told me that some experiences he has had. specifically with Mr. Color lacquers, and Mr. Paint (MRP) lacquer paints, had a very negative impact on both his personal health and other modelers he knows.  And this was only for a short duration and a few models.  Because of this, he does not use ANY lacquer based paints, and has become a fan of Mission Model Paints, which he says work as well or better than lacquers, at least for his purposes. without the potentially debilitating effects of the lacquer fumes that accompany spraying such paints.  

 

For myself, I've never experiences any ill effects from lacquer fumes, and I spray, like others have said, in my kitchen, without any forced ventilation.  However, I do not spray when my wife or my dogs are present, and I have purchased, and use religiously when spraying lacquers, a 3M respirator with organic filters.  My experience is that those filters do a fabulous job of taking care of lacquer fumes, and I smell absolutely nothing when wearing that respirator.  Of course, lack of smell is not an indicator that the filters are catching 100% of the nasties, but I think it is at least SOME indication that the filters are doing at least some good in keeping those fumes and particulates out of my lungs.

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