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MigMadMarine

Airbrush/brush painting and health

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20 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

I was a paint and body man for 11 years and changed careers because my 40 and 45 year old coworkers looked like they were 65 and 70.  Anything pumped into your lungs is not good.  But the 2 part paints (as mentioned above) is really bad stuff if not wearing a proper respirator.  Not just a particle mask like an N95 or less, but a charcoal filtered cartridge mask.  Even better, fresh air. 

One guy that worked for me came in over the weekend and sprayed a car for a friend.  Dumbass forgot his mask and did it anyway.  He was at the Dr.s office with the asthma symptoms listed in the above post.  Dr. chewed his butt, and when he came back to work, I did too. 

 

Always have some sort of fresh air circulation when air brushing or brush painting.  I'm guilty of not doing it, but my shop is in a windowless basement.  I've got a 1/32 Blue Angels Skyhawk I'm spraying with decanted spray enamel this weekend.  Doing it out in the garage with the door open and a fan to move air. 

But I'm working on a vent solution for the basement now.

Hello Scott, thanks for your answer.

I have the exact same problem when it come to airless basement, well i model in my basement just for assembly but I want to paint on my attic that do not have any window, not great.

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5 hours ago, Curt B said:

I agree with the points being made here that no exposure to any chemical, even the 'non-smelly acrylic' paint is good for any of us.  However, you must also take into account that each of us is an individual, and as such, we all have different sensitivities to varieties of things.  For example, my wife is exceedingly sensitive to things like pain medications, whereas I have a huge tolerance, and it take a lot more for me to achieve effective pain relief than it does for her.

 

I hope that MIchael Rinaldi won't be upset with me passing on what he has written to me about his experiences with lacquer paints.  Michael, for those who don't know, is a world renowned armor paint and weathering guru, with many books/publications to his credit.  He does spectacular work.  But, we have corresponded about various different paints, and he has told me that some experiences he has had. specifically with Mr. Color lacquers, and Mr. Paint (MRP) lacquer paints, had a very negative impact on both his personal health and other modelers he knows.  And this was only for a short duration and a few models.  Because of this, he does not use ANY lacquer based paints, and has become a fan of Mission Model Paints, which he says work as well or better than lacquers, at least for his purposes. without the potentially debilitating effects of the lacquer fumes that accompany spraying such paints.  

 

For myself, I've never experiences any ill effects from lacquer fumes, and I spray, like others have said, in my kitchen, without any forced ventilation.  However, I do not spray when my wife or my dogs are present, and I have purchased, and use religiously when spraying lacquers, a 3M respirator with organic filters.  My experience is that those filters do a fabulous job of taking care of lacquer fumes, and I smell absolutely nothing when wearing that respirator.  Of course, lack of smell is not an indicator that the filters are catching 100% of the nasties, but I think it is at least SOME indication that the filters are doing at least some good in keeping those fumes and particulates out of my lungs.

Thanks for the well detailled answer Kurt, actually I think about switching to acrylics, however I already have a small stock of Mr. Color. like, 30, same for enamels.

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On 5/21/2020 at 2:22 PM, MigMadMarine said:

What a great product, where can these Isocyantes can be found ? Other than in these paints ?

 

While you will not be exposed on a regular basis to isocyanates, the products that they make are all around you in daily life. Most, if not all, polyurethane foams are made from isocyanates. There are also a lot of other plastic materials that are based on isocyanates in addition to any urethane paint. If you had any fillings in your teeth over the last 20 years or so, that material has a high probability that it was made from an isocyanate as a starting point. The workhorse in the dental industry for polymer composite teeth fillings is an urethane methacrylate that was made from an isocyanate. Isocyanates are a key part of any urethane material. You can relax, however, as the likelihood of an isocyanate existing in the products you use is almost infinitesimally small. The reason it is dangerous to living bodies is its reactivity and this allows it to be chewed up and reacted long before the final product such as a foam or teeth fillings get out in the world.

 

This is an interesting discussion for me as I spent a part of the last 2 weeks in discussions with several companies as I need a custom isocyanate made for a 3D Printing project that I am an advisor for. One of those companies spent a lot of time questioning me as to how the isocyanate would be used (medical application) so I am in a bit of an isocyanate frame of mind!

Have fun modeling

Mike

🍻

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20 minutes ago, Mike J. Idacavage said:

 

While you will not be exposed on a regular basis to isocyanates, the products that they make are all around you in daily life. Most, if not all, polyurethane foams are made from isocyanates. There are also a lot of other plastic materials that are based on isocyanates in addition to any urethane paint. If you had any fillings in your teeth over the last 20 years or so, that material has a high probability that it was made from an isocyanate as a starting point. The workhorse in the dental industry for polymer composite teeth fillings is an urethane methacrylate that was made from an isocyanate. Isocyanates are a key part of any urethane material. You can relax, however, as the likelihood of an isocyanate existing in the products you use is almost infinitesimally small. The reason it is dangerous to living bodies is its reactivity and this allows it to be chewed up and reacted long before the final product such as a foam or teeth fillings get out in the world.

 

This is an interesting discussion for me as I spent a part of the last 2 weeks in discussions with several companies as I need a custom isocyanate made for a 3D Printing project that I am an advisor for. One of those companies spent a lot of time questioning me as to how the isocyanate would be used (medical application) so I am in a bit of an isocyanate frame of mind!

Have fun modeling

Mike

🍻

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your well detailed answer, and good luck for your project !

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On 5/22/2020 at 9:11 AM, MigMadMarine said:

Wow great, what kind of fans you used to do the air extraction, computer fans or a blower ? <....>

 

I use three 120mm computer fans with a fan speed control unit powered by an old PC power supply unit.

 

On 5/22/2020 at 4:07 PM, habu2 said:

Now (Covid) is definitely not the time to chance an underlying health issue in your respiratory system.

 

Exactly! :thumbsup:

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I don't want to sound like a negative Nancy, but I think computer fans are not nearly strong enough for a spray booth. I have a spraybooth built around a 150W fan from a stove hood, and it's still not enough when I'm blasting away.

 

I looked it up, a 120mm computer fan uses 1W! So even if you use three, you could roughly calculate that your three fans move 1/50th of the air volume of my spray booth.

 

Look up a typical fan performance graph: it shows pumped volume on the horizontal axis, and pressure drop (or build-up) on the vertical axis. If you've got some piping or a filter, you'll have resistance, hence pressure drop, and before you know it the fan pumps nearly nothing.  Here's the first one I found:

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/9737/the-corsair-sp140-led-af140-led-sp120-af120-fan-review/2

 

Rob

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Posted (edited)

To go along with this topic, anyone have any issues with building near water heaters?  Just moved and my set up might need to be in the unfinished basement and the plugs are close to the heater.  Anyone have any issues with using paints (lacquer/enamel) near the water heaters?

Edited by ulvdemon
Clarification

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As in: the spray booth being strong enough to be sucking exhaust gasses from the water heater into the basement? There have been cases of modelers getting sick / dying because of this. I think I read something like this during the rec.models.scale years.


Rob

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27 minutes ago, ulvdemon said:

 Anyone have any issues with using paints (lacquer/enamel) near the water heaters?


Is your water heater gas or electric?  You should be okay with electric but I would not paint around a gas heater. 

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Gas... and now, I shall un-hijack the thread, thank you! 🙂

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I wouldn't use a vent fan that exhausts to the outside in a room with a gas water heater unless you have another window you can open to allow air in.  Otherwise your vent stack can become the fresh air inlet pulling the exhaust into your garage/room.

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