F4DPhantomII Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 What is the best match for US Navy 1965-75 gloss gull gray? Is Model Master the right color? What do you use? Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
picknpluck Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Gunze or MRP for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Thanks for asking a loaded question! 😂 The best match for Gull Gray seems to be Model Master. I use Acryl and it matches nicely with the color chip I have. MRP, compared to the color chip, is too light. With that said, if you look at multiple pictures of aircraft painted Light Gull Gray, they look different in just about every picture. Some have a brownish hue, while others have a blueish hue. Any of the Lt. Gull Grays would work, really and truly. Use what paint you're comfortable with, or try something new and see if you like it.The only one you want to stay away from is Mr. Color's WWII Lt. Gull Gray. It's too dark. Ask me how I know! 😔 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: The only one you want to stay away from is Mr. Color's WWII Lt. Gull Gray. It's too dark. Ask me how I know! 😔 Hi Darren - are you talking about C11 from Mr Color? I don't see any other version of LGG from Mr Color but my C11 bottles are not marked as WWII so wondering if you were referencing another LGG from Mr Color - thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SERNAK Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Hi F4DPhantomII, From what I have read and heard over the years from more experienced modellers is that Pactra's (acrylic) 36440 matched perfectly to the FS595 book color chips. Now, these are probably a company's paints you can't find anymore however, Model Master's acrylic gull gray is a good match, as is Gunze's Aqueous. However, as Darren pointed out it depends on the photos of the aircraft you want to depict. My suggestion to you and what I personally do is, start with the best FS match and then according to the photos you have try to see how lighter or darker the colour should be. My subject-area are Adversaries colours (and the units/aircrafts that "carried" them) AND BELIEVE ME I'm having a really difficult time trying to create hues according to the photos I have. Just my two cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, SERNAK said: Hi F4DPhantomII, From what I have read and heard over the years from more experienced modellers is that Pactra's (acrylic) 36440 matched perfectly to the FS595 book color chips. Now, these are probably a company's paints you can't find anymore however, Model Master's acrylic gull gray is a good match, as is Gunze's Aqueous. However, as Darren pointed out it depends on the photos of the aircraft you want to depict. My suggestion to you and what I personally do is, start with the best FS match and then according to the photos you have try to see how lighter or darker the colour should be. My subject-area are Adversaries colours (and the units/aircrafts that "carried" them) AND BELIEVE ME I'm having a really difficult time trying to create hues according to the photos I have. Just my two cents. My brother had the same problem with adversary aircraft. Remember that photos can be misleading because of lighting, development process, atmosphere, etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 MM, Xtracolor, and Mr Color are all dang near equal and should satisfy the most discerning modeler. They all spray effortlessly and can be wet sanded between coats.I think MM dropped enamel GGG in the bottle but you can decant their rattle can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andrew.deboer Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I use Model Master enamel Flat Gull Gray as my base coat - I like the coverage better than with the gloss. I have found that other brands that are a little different shade make great “touch up” paints. On a recent overall gull gray F-14 I used Model Master flat gull gray as the base, then used MRP’s shade on several panels, the radome, and some panel edges. Then I used another brand(??) for some shading on the underside. It really was an easy method for simulating the patchy appearance of a mid-cruise plane, when there really is no “correct” color. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teeradej Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Mr.Color no. 315 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weirich1 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Yes, Model Master FS 16440 Gloss Gull Gray Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Actually, it ain't that simple. For more info on early "Light Gull Grey", see this thread by RichardL. In the tread he discusses the changes that were made to this color and the mix ups that have occurred regarding which color was used when. Its not as simple as one would think. I remember seeing a photo (been looking for it on the net but can't seem to find it) of three Phantoms in a Navy carrier hanger and each had a different shade of what we think of as "Light Gull Grey". I'm talking stark differences, not just subtle changes. Anyway, here's the thread... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 Here is some more info from RichardL with more paint comparisons... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Mstor said: I remember seeing a photo (been looking for it on the net but can't seem to find it) of three Phantoms in a Navy carrier hanger and each had a different shade of what we think of as "Light Gull Grey". I'm talking stark differences, not just subtle changes. I was wrong, the photo is of A-7s not F-4s. Found it with the help of Spectre711 who has it in his message signature (I knew I had seen it somewhere). Anyway, for your viewing pleasure, Light Gull Grey and/or FS16440/36440 or glossy light grey. I can't figure it out. Note the different colors used for the grey on the upper surfaces of the A-7s. Quite some variation. I think the dark one from VA-205 might be the early version of the color used prior to 1972 (if I remember what RichardL reported in his threads), but I'm not sure. One thing is for sure, that is that no two of the aircraft appear to have the same grey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SERNAK Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Mstor said: Light Gull Grey and/or FS16440/36440 or glossy light grey. Just to get things straight, particularly for those who are new to our hobby and are probably reading this topic, "36" means it is a matt colour and "16" it is a gloss one. The picture you have chosen to show depicts exactly what everybody should be taking under consideration when building an aircraft's kit and that is the fact that not all the FS colours look the same under a period of time. Personally, this is why I used to AND STILL ARE struggle with achieving that colour's hue(s) from a specific aircraft. That's why I always say, references, references, references!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhantomII Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 What thinner do you use for Model Master Acrylic? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, F4DPhantomII said: What thinner do you use for Model Master Acrylic? I’ve used their own thinner, lighter fluid and lacquer thinner. I’ve started adding a few drops of japan drier to speed up the drying process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, F4DPhantomII said: What thinner do you use for Model Master Acrylic? I use the MM Acryl thinner. You don't need much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 17 hours ago, Mstor said: I was wrong, the photo is of A-7s not F-4s. Found it with the help of Spectre711 who has it in his message signature (I knew I had seen it somewhere). Anyway, for your viewing pleasure, Light Gull Grey and/or FS16440/36440 or glossy light grey. I can't figure it out. Note the different colors used for the grey on the upper surfaces of the A-7s. Quite some variation. I think the dark one from VA-205 might be the early version of the color used prior to 1972 (if I remember what RichardL reported in his threads), but I'm not sure. One thing is for sure, that is that no two of the aircraft appear to have the same grey. One thing I do want to point out is that some of the difference is lighting. The two aircraft in the foreground are in front of the open hangar bay door. If you look at the closest one, you'll see the wing has a browner hue than the fuselage because it's not in the direct light. Even the forward fuselage is browner. With that said, the furthest most A-7 definetly looks darker, but I don't think it's as dramatic as the picture shows. It would lighten up if it was in direct light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Gray changes very easy under various lighting. Just go read about what color gray is on the Star Trek Enterprise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 You also have to remember that those three A-7's were from three different squadrons, based in different geographical areas and painted at different times. Thus, the grey will fade and weather differently. VA-203 - NAS Cecil Field VA-204 - NAS New Orleans VA-205 - NAS Atlanta And what Darren said about the lighting is spot on, even in broad day light the lighting in the "barn" various from one area to another due to various reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 I was at an air show at NASA Ames once upon a time (the Blues were flying A-4s). It was a lovely sunny day. There was an excellent representation of Navy airplanes in the static-display area. They were all gray/white and clean. No two greys were the exact same color or sheen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 55 minutes ago, Tailspin Turtle said: I was at an air show at NASA Ames once upon a time (the Blues were flying A-4s). It was a lovely sunny day. There was an excellent representation of Navy airplanes in the static-display area. They were all gray/white and clean. No two greys were the exact same color or sheen. One can only dream of airshows like that anymore. 😥 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AV O Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 (edited) On 6/19/2020 at 11:37 PM, Scott Smith said: Gray changes very easy under various lighting. Just go read about what color gray is on the Star Trek Enterprise. http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/277383-continental-airlines-grey/&tab=comments&_fromLogin=1 Edited June 21, 2020 by AV O Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, Darren Roberts said: One thing I do want to point out is that some of the difference is lighting. The two aircraft in the foreground are in front of the open hangar bay door. If you look at the closest one, you'll see the wing has a browner hue than the fuselage because it's not in the direct light. Even the forward fuselage is browner. With that said, the furthest most A-7 definetly looks darker, but I don't think it's as dramatic as the picture shows. It would lighten up if it was in direct light. I agree that differences in lighting can effect the color, but the VA-205 A-7 with the browner looking grey is in the same area as the A-7 that has its nose and intake pointed forward. Those two are, IMHO, not painted with the same grey. Not even close. How to account for it, I don't know. Is one an early Lt Gull Grey? Did who ever mixed the paints that day pour a bit too much yellow in one? I have yet to see an paint sample of the early pre-FS, pre-1970s Lt Gull Grey. Is that what we're seeing? I don't know. RIchardL has given us great examples of paint matches to the current glossy lt. grey (FS16440) and FS 36440. I've been hoping someone would post paint matches to the early Lt Gull Greys. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mstor Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 On 6/19/2020 at 1:21 AM, SERNAK said: That's why I always say, references, references, references!!!! You hit it on the nose! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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