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dai phan

How did serious modelers handle raised panel lines in those days?

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

 

I never got into the wash technique until models came out with recessed panel lines. In those 80's I just did some half butt dry brushing and left at that. How did you guys handle it then? Dai 

 

Edited by dai phan

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I don't think panel lines were ever a thing until Hasegawa started releasing kits with recessed lines in the late 80's. Then modelers had to decide how they would handle them. 

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2 hours ago, Bill Staudt said:

I don't think panel lines were ever a thing until Hasegawa started releasing kits with recessed lines in the late 80's. Then modelers had to decide how they would handle them. 

I look at the old builds on the Net and I did not see any panel lines work at all. Now the models would look horrible if they are not there. Dai 

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Posted (edited)

Sometimes stretched sprue, sometimes thin lines of putty ike on this Monogram thud I did a couple of years ago

 

1qh6THi.jpg

 

 

Edited by modelguy2

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Posted (edited)

Good question. If you mean highlighting the panel lines, many used pencil, painting, or lightly sanding the line to get the plastic to show. They are essentially the same techniques used today. It's interesting to note that while engraved detail can be used to produce a very artistic finish, most of it isn't realistic. Engraved lines are simply easier to work with.

Edited by Darren Roberts

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Could we please stop with this crap about raised panel lines and being a "serious modeler?"  

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What's the harm in him asking?  He probably hasn't been building as long as most of us and asking a question about a tecnique is ok.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ikar said:

What's the harm in him asking?  He probably hasn't been building as long as most of us and asking a question about a tecnique is ok.

 

Actually, I kind of get what echolmberg is saying. I don't think dai phan meant anything negative from his title. However, echolmberg has a legitimate gripe. I've had personal interactions with other modelers at contests who've asked me why I didn't rescribe the lines on my Monogram Tomcats. I said it took too long, and a good result could  be achieved with the raised lines. I was told that a "serious" modeler would have rescribed the lines. I kind of thought I was a serious modeler, being that I write for Finescale Modeler and have won awards at the national level. I guess I'm not serious enough. 😄  In addition, one gets the feeling from various threads that if a kit has raised lines, it is somehow inferior to ones with recessed lines. The extention of that is why would any serious modeler even touch a kit with raised lines?

Edited by Darren Roberts

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I have a Monogram Voodoo in my stash. A beautiful kit with very good details. Panel lines however are raised. I have not been able to start it as I have not been able to decide between scribing the panel lines or keep them raised. I still dont know the answer. 

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I personally think pre- shading raised panel lines can look pretty awsome at times. :thumbsup:

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2 hours ago, echolmberg said:

Could we please stop with this crap about raised panel lines and being a "serious modeler?"  

When I mean "serious" I meant contest winning modelers. I have been building model since 1972 and had placed at many IPMS contests. I didn't do anything with my raised panels models until companies started making them in mid 80's other than some light dry brushing. I just wonder if there were techniques in those days to highlight the raised panel lines from all the master expert modelers here. Dai 

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1 hour ago, stalal said:

I have a Monogram Voodoo in my stash. A beautiful kit with very good details. Panel lines however are raised. I have not been able to start it as I have not been able to decide between scribing the panel lines or keep them raised. I still dont know the answer. 

 

Do whatever you feel comfortable with or what you enjoy. That's what the hobby is about. That's why it kind of bugs me when modelers look down on those who don't rescribe.

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1 hour ago, stalal said:

I have a Monogram Voodoo in my stash. A beautiful kit with very good details. Panel lines however are raised. I have not been able to start it as I have not been able to decide between scribing the panel lines or keep them raised. I still dont know the answer. 

I remember a technique in a VHS tape from a person who placed first at the US National IPMS with his Mig 29 1/32 and he talked about " forced paneling". That is holding a card next to a panel lines and airbrush with a lighter color to simulate the panels. Dai 

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1 hour ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

Actually, I kind of get what echolmberg is saying. I don't think dai phan meant anything negative from his title. However, echolmberg has a legitimate gripe. I've had personal interactions with other modelers at contests who've asked me why I didn't rescribe the lines on my Monogram Tomcats. I said it took too long, and a good result could  be achieved with the raised lines. I was told that a "serious" modeler would have rescribed the lines. I kind of thought I was a serious modeler, being that I write for Finescale Modeler and have won awards at the national level. I guess I'm not serious enough. 😄  In addition, one gets the feeling from various threads that if a kit has raised lines, it is somehow inferior to ones with recessed lines. The extention of that is why would any serious modeler even touch a kit with raised lines?

I am building a series of Monogram classics and some have raised panel lines. I am working on my Monogram F80 and I used the masking tape/ painting/dry brushing to stimulate the panels. Way too much work and I want to explore the methods that modelers used here. Talking about FSM, I was a member of the Richard Bong IPMS Milwaukee and Paul Boyer ( FSM Editor) was one of the members. In 1997 club contest I took Gold and I thought it was amazing that his models didn't place before me 🙂 . Dai 

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10 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

Do whatever you feel comfortable with or what you enjoy. That's what the hobby is about. That's why it kind of bugs me when modelers look down on those who don't rescribe.

Those people who rescribe likely to have inferior skills than us who don't. Dai 

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O.K., at the risk of starting a flame war, here's my take on this entire thread.  For  those who don't know, I have been building and writing about modelbuilding since 1967, am a founding member of the IPMS/USA (#2), have built well over a thousand aircraft models as well as God knows how many of other subjects...including scratchbuilts...and have worked with both raised and recessed lines.  I''ve also placed and/or won at many local contests.  I've also been published in more magazines than I care to list here and have also been published in England.

1.     Both recessed and raised panel line on models are for artistic effect.

2.    Panel lines as 'reproduced' on scale models generally do not exist on full size aircraft.  Same goes for raised rivets...armored vehicles excepted.

3.    The smaller the scale...and the larger the prototype aircraft being modeled...the less visible the panel lines should be.

4.    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  When it comes to scale models, it's what looks right to you.  Everyone has a different standard.

5.    I have built models on commission that I would never have considered acceptable to my personal standards.

6.    I don't bother rescribing unless I need to replace  a panel line lost by sanding or putty.

7.    At most, I lightly sand raised panel lines to reduce their prominence.  Depends on the kit.

8.    I usually don't bother to shade or wash recessed panel lines to make them more prominent.

9.    It's a hobby.  Enjoy it instead of making it a chore.  Same comments apply if you do it as a business.

 

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Hey IPMSUSA2,

 

What did modelers do with panel lines in the 60s, 70s and 80s?  I did not start going to model shows until the 90s so I just do not know. Did modelers weather aircraft in previous decades?  

 

What trends do you remember over the years? 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

In addition, one gets the feeling from various threads that if a kit has raised lines, it is somehow inferior to ones with recessed lines.

 

The truly inferior kits are all of those which do not smell like the real deal.

 

If you can't be bothered to make it smell right you have no business manufacturing kits.

 

(hmm, how does smell scale, anyway?) 

😉

Edited by southwestforests

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I think the real question now is what is considered a serious modeler?

 

Is someone who has a stash that takes up a whole room, builds about one model per month, has bookcases full of reference books and decals and has enough spare paint to last 20 years considered a serious modeler?

 

or

 

Is someone who has won numerous awards, takes years to build one model and writes articles for modeling rags considered a serious modeler.

 

Being a serious modeler has nothing to do with skill, how many kits they have, how much they know about a particular subject or how many articles they've pen.

 

(Personally) Being a serious modeler has everything to do with a mind set, such as going into any kind of store and looking for stuff that they can use for model building. Going on a family vacation and mapping out local hobby stores in the area to visit during said vacation. Looking forward to days off so they can sit at their table and sniff glue and spill paint, that is a serious modeler to me.

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15 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

 

 

(Personally) Being a serious modeler has everything to do with a mind set, such as going into any kind of store and looking for stuff that they can use for model building. Going on a family vacation and mapping out local hobby stores in the area to visit during said vacation. Looking forward to days off so they can sit at their table and sniff glue and spill paint, that is a serious modeler to me.

 

GW, you've nailed it.  I've done everything you've mentioned in the above quote, yet I would argue that the rest of your original comment applies as well, though they must be integral with the above quote.  You can't have one without the other in some respects.

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58 minutes ago, Kurt H. said:

Hey IPMSUSA2,

 

What did modelers do with panel lines in the 60s, 70s and 80s?  I did not start going to model shows until the 90s so I just do not know. Did modelers weather aircraft in previous decades?  

 

What trends do you remember over the years? 

That is exactly what I am trying to get answer to. No intention to start a flame war. Dai 

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Actually, I used an oil paint panel line wash in basically the same way as is done with recessed panel lines. I got a lot of my techniques from the "Verlinden Method" in one of his books. Came out looking pretty good is I remember correctly. This was mostly on later Monogram kits, like the F-15 and F-14. 

This BS about raised panel line kits not being serious modeling is just that, BS. Back in the day, we used what we had and tried to make the models look as life-like as possible. 

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Mstor, you are absolutely correct about us using what we had and still striving to make them as realistic as possible.  That, in a nutshell, is the definition of a 'serious' modeler.  Incidentally, something y'all may find interesting is that I was once asked "if money were no object and you could spend all of your time either writing or building models, which would you choose?"  That question is unanswerable since writing about and building models is my calling, the two are inseparable.  This is what I was born to do.  No matter what I've done to make money, I come back to freelance writing/professional modelbuilding like a stretched rubber band being released. 

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4 hours ago, dai phan said:

That is exactly what I am trying to get answer to. No intention to start a flame war. Dai 

 

That is what I figured,  it is a subject I remember reading a flame war about in the letters section of FSM over several issues in 1989, so it is obviously a long running debate.

 

I think we should try and document how things were done, and what the trends were during previous decades while people still remember.  

 

Are there pictures of the winners from the Nats from the 70s and 80s? It sure would be neat to see. 

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10 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I think the real question now is what is considered a serious modeler?

 

Is someone who has a stash that takes up a whole room, builds about one model per month, has bookcases full of reference books and decals and has enough spare paint to last 20 years considered a serious modeler?

 

or

 

Is someone who has won numerous awards, takes years to build one model and writes articles for modeling rags considered a serious modeler.

 

Being a serious modeler has nothing to do with skill, how many kits they have, how much they know about a particular subject or how many articles they've pen.

 

(Personally) Being a serious modeler has everything to do with a mind set, such as going into any kind of store and looking for stuff that they can use for model building. Going on a family vacation and mapping out local hobby stores in the area to visit during said vacation. Looking forward to days off so they can sit at their table and sniff glue and spill paint, that is a serious modeler to me.

 

Well stated, sir.

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