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How did serious modelers handle raised panel lines in those days?


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Darren, I've seen, admired & own some of your work!  You are a SERIOUS modeler.  I, sadly, am not. I am a serious collector, though. Kindest regards, Dutch

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23 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

You are spot on Bill. Where it goes off the rails is when comments are made. We've all heard them. "This kit is a piece of garbage that should be tossed in the trash. In fact, I did throw it away because it was unbuildable." Or, "Just stop complaining and build it. Be glad a kit manufacturer even made it." I'm going to dive deep philosophically for a moment. As humans, we tend to seek out validation. That validation many times can be found in like-thinking groups. Human nature is to congregate with others we perceive as similar to us, whether it be values, appearance, interests, etc. I think that most of the dust-ups occur because we are looking for validation for our views, and we may not even know we're doing it. We'd all be better off if we tried to appreciate the other person's ideas and not make any disparaging comments. It may even go beyond modeling and work in every aspect of our lives. Alright, I'm done being philosophical. Now, where did I put my paint brush. I'm feeling lazy and I'm going to hand paint my model because I don't want to break out the airbrush. 😄

I'll dive in, let me grab a flash light...your talking about identity and I agree totally.  We identify ourselves as a set of things and the mind will immediately adopt and protect that set of things.  One protection method is to judge others according to the adopted identities.  

Personally, I've noticed that I get a little saddened near the end of a build.  All the excitement and anticipation when I first open the box has faded and the imagination exercise has ended.  I guess I find pleasure in the process and the challenge of bringing the build to life..each piece can be a model if you approach it that way.  Others, I gather, like to push through and get to the finish line.  I'm somewhere in the middle I guess...I hate getting to the end only to realise I could have gotten a better result with just a little more time.  But I don't spend hours stressing over detailing gear bay wells that I'm certain will never be seen either..that's just where I am.  

So the hobby should be fun, like life... up to each person to define fun.  

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18 hours ago, Dutch said:

Darren, I've seen, admired & own some of your work!  You are a SERIOUS modeler.  I, sadly, am not. Kindest regards, Dutch

 

That is very kind of you. Thank you for the support. As long as you enjoy what you're doing, that's all that matters.

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13 hours ago, Napalmakita said:

Personally, I've noticed that I get a little saddened near the end of a build.  All the excitement and anticipation when I first open the box has faded and the imagination exercise has ended.  I guess I find pleasure in the process and the challenge of bringing the build to life..each piece can be a model if you approach it that way.  Others, I gather, like to push through and get to the finish line.  I'm somewhere in the middle I guess...I hate getting to the end only to realise I could have gotten a better result with just a little more time.  But I don't spend hours stressing over detailing gear bay wells that I'm certain will never be seen either..that's just where I am.  

 

In a way, the most enjoyment I have had building models was when I was a young child. My parents would give me some money and I would run down to the corner store. There they had a shelf with models. Mostly Aurora kits. I became so excited once I selected and purchased the kit. I ran home, my heart pounding, got out the glue and started in. There was no painting. There was no filing or sanding. I used scissors to cut the parts from the sprues. Glue was applied and parts assembled. All was held together in my hands until the glue had set. I did not stop until it was done. Then, my friends and I would take our models and toy soldiers and stage battles in the garden. That was my joy.

I have been unable to capture those pure moments again. I still enjoy model building, but it has become "serious" and somewhere along the way I lost the simple joy I found when I was but a child. Sad...

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On 7/14/2020 at 6:54 AM, trojansamurai said:

A bit of historical and cultural perspective on how things came about.

 

Recessed panel lines pre-date Hasegawa of the ‘80s. There are even some Revell, Aurora,Lindberg and other kits from the ‘60s or earlier that had them, but didn’t become a “thing” yet and presumably manufacturers realized panel lines can be simulated more inexpensively with raised lines. 


[snip]

 

Rescribing is merely an artistic style used to achieve a particular look and in my opinion not a measure of how serious of a modeler you are. Just like someone who builds award-winning models with brush painting is no less serious than someone who uses an airbrush.

 

A big thanks for posting this analysis of weathering styles! There's so little history or analysis to be found on this interesting subject.

 

Rob

 

 

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9 hours ago, Mstor said:

 

In a way, the most enjoyment I have had building models was when I was a young child. My parents would give me some money and I would run down to the corner store. There they had a shelf with models. Mostly Aurora kits. I became so excited once I selected and purchased the kit. I ran home, my heart pounding, got out the glue and started in. There was no painting. There was no filing or sanding. I used scissors to cut the parts from the sprues. Glue was applied and parts assembled. All was held together in my hands until the glue had set. I did not stop until it was done. Then, my friends and I would take our models and toy soldiers and stage battles in the garden. That was my joy.

I have been unable to capture those pure moments again. I still enjoy model building, but it has become "serious" and somewhere along the way I lost the simple joy I found when I was but a child. Sad...

 

This is very eloquently stated, and I would suspect many, many modelers feel the same way. My modeling epiphany occured when I was preparing to do a seminar at the Omaha IPMS Nats a few years back. I was presenting the History of US Navy ID Markings and wanted to have physical examples. I decided to build all of the Monogram Navy kits to show all of the different markings. Because of the time crunch, I built them OOB and didn't worry about accuracy. It was the most fun I've had in years, and it came close to capturing that joy I had as a young child. Since then, I don't enter contests and I don't sweat the small stuff. If there's an imperfection in something I've done, so be it. 

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1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

There's so little history or analysis to be found on this interesting subject.

 

Yes we have barely scratched the surface.

 

.

 

I'll show myself out...... 

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30 minutes ago, habu2 said:

 

Yes we have barely scratched the surface.

 

.

 

I'll show myself out...... 

 

I see what you did there. "Barely scratched the surface" on a thread that involved scribing raised panel lines.😄

Edited by Darren Roberts
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On 7/14/2020 at 7:39 AM, IPMSUSA2 said:

... but you have to wonder if today's modelers...especially the younger ones...have even heard of the early methods, let alone would be able to effectively use them.

 

Just a few thoughts from the archives.

 

30 something year old modeller here!

 

This discussion is a fascinating read for someone like me who grew up reading my father's modelling magazines, and absorbing all the different techniques that people used to varying success in the pursuit of realism.

 

After building airfix, heller and monogram kits, I remember being amazed at the crisp recessed detail on the first Otaki 1/48 kit I saw 😆

 

 

This discussion feels similar in spirit to a recent one about a lack of basic skills, in leiu of flashy accessories, and how the focus has shifted.

 

It's remarkable how our silly little pastime of playing with chunks of plastic has evolved over the years, and for someone who wasn't around to experience all the changes in person, I'm glad you more, er, youth-challenged guys are around to remind us how much has changed. 

 

 

As for the discussion at hand: I'm an aircraft mechanic by trade (vintage, warbirds, GA and corporate) and whilst I generally rescribe my models, scribed lines are usually completely inaccurate in terms of realism.

As said elsewhere, however, they do hold washes well and add visual interest. 

 

Pity we never got the chance to see WnW's Lancaster, that one, with its overlapping skins and "oil canning" seemed it may have come the closest yet to portraying a realistic finish in scale. 

 

Maybe it would have ushered in the next generation of finishing techniques?

 

Denzil

Edited by DDC
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44 minutes ago, DDC said:

 

I'm glad you more, er, youth-challenged guys are around to remind us how much has changed.

 

Denzil

😁 thanks for putting that so tactfully. Now get off my lawn ya young punk. 🤣

 

Kidding of course.

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14 minutes ago, niart17 said:

😁 thanks for putting that so tactfully. Now get off my lawn ya young punk. 🤣

 

 

 

I'll be so lucky if i live long enough to claim that title for myself 😆🤣

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On 7/11/2020 at 8:46 AM, Kurt H. said:

I think we should try and document how things were done, and what the trends were during previous decades while people still remember.  

 

Are there pictures of the winners from the Nats from the 70s and 80s? It sure would be neat to see. 

Good points Kurt.

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17 hours ago, Mstor said:

I became so excited once I selected and purchased the kit. I ran home, my heart pounding, got out the glue and started in. There was no painting. There was no filing or sanding. I used scissors to cut the parts from the sprues. Glue was applied and parts assembled. All was held together in my hands until the glue had set. I did not stop until it was done. Then, my friends and I would take our models and toy soldiers and stage battles in the garden. That was my joy.

I have been unable to capture those pure moments again. I still enjoy model building, but it has become "serious" and somewhere along the way I lost the simple joy I found when I was but a child. Sad...

You're describing exactly what I used to do as a kid!!! The only difference is that my kits were Matchbox kits. Different plastic colours and the smell of the Revell glue was heaven!!!

 

Good old days. 

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There is a Youtube channel put out by Andy's Hobby Shop and he's done a series of videos dealing with the history of some kit manufacturers. Not exactly just about molding and modeling techniques but somewhat relevant to this subject. It would be neat to see a full slide show of winning models from all the different years. And I agree a comprehensive study of techniques would be very welcome indeed.

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I had to think about this for a while. I knew I had seen some very well done models which were not weathered, which showed excellent craftsmanship.  No seams, clear parts perfectly clear with no seams where they met the fuselage, and the gaskets done perfectly. They were on display at Piper Hobbies in chantilly, and built by Jack Streeper. Sadly all I could find was an obituary for him, he passed away in 1998.  There may have been models from other builders there too, but they we also perfectly built and painted, with no weathering or panel lining. Many even had raised panel lines and the models still looked great.   The models were still there when the store closed in something like 2017. Hopefully some of them found a good home. 

 

Any way, I really do not care how other people build models, spanish school, old school,  preshade, black base, whatever.  I just like to see good craftsmanship and enthusiasm for the hobby. 

 

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7 hours ago, DDC said:

After building airfix, heller and monogram kits, I remember being amazed at the crisp recessed detail on the first Otaki 1/48 kit I saw 😆

 

I think the first kit I saw with recessed panel lines was one of the big Airfix 1/24 scale aircraft, the 109 I think. I was amazed at the level of detail. It was way too expensive for me though. The first model with recessed panel lines that I remember building was an Otaki 1/48 P-51D. I was amazed at the fine detailing and how much more realistic it looked. After that, I started looking for more like it, but they were rare at the time.

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1 hour ago, Mstor said:

The first model with recessed panel lines that I remember building was an Otaki 1/48 P-51D. I was amazed at the fine detailing and how much more realistic it looked. After that, I started looking for more like it, but they were rare at the time.

 

Even by current standards, they're still very nice kits!

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7 hours ago, Kurt H. said:

The models were still there when the store closed in something like 2017. Hopefully some of them found a good home. 

It would be nice if IPMS could gather most of these old but, good models' builds in one place so that everyone could see our hobby's development over the years and learn from the old masters.

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Hi all.

 

I am finishing now my 1/48 Monogram F80. I have spent way way more time and money on this kit than I did back in 1986. The aftermarket decals cost me 95 USD and I have spent hours putting back panel lines with lots of headache and frustration. But back in 86, painting was done with a spray can, no panel line work and I used the kit's decals ! I finished in a day and loved the outcome. Purely enjoyable experience. Now as my skill gets better, it took way longer, spent more money and really never happy with anything I do.  I am my worse enemy. I think the simpler you approach to a kit mentality the happier you will be. Dai  

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