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A-7 External Tank Question


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1 hour ago, BillS said:

Were the A-7’s external tanks the same as those on the A-4? A-6?

Yes, just the fin configuration would be different. 

 

Also, there was two different fin configuration for the A-7, the configuration depended on which station (inboard/outboard) the tank was loaded on.

 

I'll see if I can find/remember the exact configurations in a little bit. 

 

For the A-7, the drop tanks on the inboard station will have fins at the 3, 6 and 9 o'clock position. For tanks loaded on the outboard stations the tanks would only have fins on the 3 and 9 o'clock position.

 

Here's a photo of a tanker with tanks on both the inboard and outboard stations (midboard stations were dry stations so no tank are authorized)

 

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/right-front-view-of-an-a-7-corsair-ii-aircraft-coming-to-a-stop-after-making-0566f7?zoom=true

Edited by GW8345
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The Douglas designed 300 gal Aero 1B  was almost certainly the most widely used external fuel tank ever built. In addition to the aircraft mentioned above, Skyraiders, Skyrays, Vikings and Harriers were also fitted with them.

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28 minutes ago, RichB63 said:

The Douglas designed 300 gal Aero 1B  was almost certainly the most widely used external fuel tank ever built. In addition to the aircraft mentioned above, Skyraiders, Skyrays, Vikings and Harriers were also fitted with them.

The Douglas 300 gallon tank was the Aero 1D.

Edited by GW8345
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2 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Yes but I rarely saw tanks on USAF Corsair's.

I'll disagree. The USAF A-7 external tanks had a different profile. The center section had parallel sides and that ubiquitous seam, whereas the Aero series of tanks had a constant curve from tip to tip.

 

Can been seen here:

 

Most kits seem to include the Aero 1D pattern tanks, I don't know that I've seen the Air Force style tanks kitted anywhere.

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1 hour ago, Hoops said:

I'll disagree. The USAF A-7 external tanks had a different profile. The center section had parallel sides and that ubiquitous seam, whereas the Aero series of tanks had a constant curve from tip to tip.

 

Can been seen here:

 

Most kits seem to include the Aero 1D pattern tanks, I don't know that I've seen the Air Force style tanks kitted anywhere.

I never said they were the only tanks authorized.

 

BTW, the pic you post is a museum bird, there are photos of operational A-7D's with AERO-1D's.

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Most of my A-7D shots did not have their tanks on.  Like most fighters they would rely on tanker support and use the pylon for weapons.  Most of the time when they carried their tanks they would be heading to a new base assignment but there were times when a special mission would require a fighter to go 3 bags full, but I would have no idea what they were up to.

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3 hours ago, GW8345 said:

I never said they were the only tanks authorized.

 

BTW, the pic you post is a museum bird, there are photos of operational A-7D's with AERO-1D's.

 

To answer the question "did the A-7D use the same tanks as the navy and marine A-7s?" with "Yes" is only half the truth.

 

There are more photos of A-7Ds with AF Pattern drop tanks out there than A-7Ds with Aero-1Ds.

 

I'm fully aware that that link I posted earlier was a photo of a museum aircraft. It was the first result that came up, and had the best lighting.

 

If you want a cross section active A-7D/Ks with the AF pattern tanks, here are a few:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrit_kok_collection/30657371402/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrit_kok_collection/14767061471/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrit_kok_collection/19602057972/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/al_henderson/4755666784/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22790934@N07/47336987042/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22790934@N07/32756375887/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22790934@N07/49518180136/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75122977@N05/49391886467/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31078316@N04/11514109843/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59455242@N07/22384233593/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22790934@N07/32848064047/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrit_kok_collection/14148434666/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22790934@N07/49896105292/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77175657@N00/42806058845/

 

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Hmmmm, I opened  s can ‘o worms. In some of these pics the tanks look like the Navy type, others have that stringer on the side. I don’t get it but an explanation lurks within the annals of ARC.

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For what it’s worth the F4H’s bespoke tanks (370 and 600 gallon) went through a similar evolution. The original tanks were designed by McDonnell. They were later replaced by tanks with a constant diameter in the midsection, presumably to reduce manufacturing cost. See https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2013/06/things-under-wings-f4h-f-4-phantom.html

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I saw this A-7E way back in 1988 at the Eisenhower, anchored at Napels. Is this the standard tanker configuration, with the D-704 pod left outboard, and fuel tanks on the right inboard and outboard pylons? I think they are 300 gallon Aero-1Ds, but this is largely a guess. I only have the AirDoc book on the A-7, and it doesn't discuss the stores much, unfortunately. But it does show two tankers, pages 10 and 44, with the same configuration. Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/images/a7e-01.jpg

 

Rob

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23 hours ago, BillS said:

Hmmmm, I opened  s can ‘o worms. In some of these pics the tanks look like the Navy type, others have that stringer on the side. I don’t get it but an explanation lurks within the annals of ARC.

 

On the AF pattern tanks the seam is only down the port side of the tank, look for an angle where the center section with the straight sides meets the front and rear cone. I didn't include any photos where it was hard to make out, the Aero 1D tanks have no parallel sides, it's simply a constant curve from front to back.

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1 hour ago, Rob de Bie said:

I saw this A-7E way back in 1988 at the Eisenhower, anchored at Napels. Is this the standard tanker configuration, with the D-704 pod left outboard, and fuel tanks on the right inboard and outboard pylons? I think they are 300 gallon Aero-1Ds, but this is largely a guess. I only have the AirDoc book on the A-7, and it doesn't discuss the stores much, unfortunately. But it does show two tankers, pages 10 and 44, with the same configuration. Thanks in advance for any insights!

 

https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/images/a7e-01.jpg

 

Rob

Yes, the standard A-7E tanker configuration was an D704 on station 1 and an AERO 1D on station 6 and 8.

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1 hour ago, Hoops said:

 

On the AF pattern tanks the seam is only down the port side of the tank, look for an angle where the center section with the straight sides meets the front and rear cone. I didn't include any photos where it was hard to make out, the Aero 1D tanks have no parallel sides, it's simply a constant curve from front to back.

The AERO 1D did not have a constant curve like you keep saying, it did have a straight center section.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm5.staticflickr.com%2F4287%2F35638698652_e49b9cb3e7_o.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tapatalk.com%2Fgroups%2Fairfixtributeforum%2Fairfix-1-72-douglas-a4b-4p-skyhawk-a03029-t47356-s25.html&tbnid=d2nyFgHl0ypWsM&vet=12ahUKEwizmYqMxsvqAhUPNd8KHRsQDBMQMyg7egQIARA9..i&docid=8ZypyabsFtPpaM&w=800&h=500&q=AERO 1D external fuel tank&ved=2ahUKEwizmYqMxsvqAhUPNd8KHRsQDBMQMyg7egQIARA9

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/07/douglas-low-drag-external-fuel-tanks.html

 

The USAF tanks just had a strengthening strip added.

 

BTW, you are aware that there are different part number's for the AERO 1D, such as 75A550002-1001,  225–48000–96 and 225–48000–97. So what you are claiming is not an AERO 1D is in fact an AERO 1D, just a different part number.

 

And as far as the curve, take a look at MIL-T-81838(AS), NAVAIR 03–10JL–7 and ASIM AOP-12 Vol 2, there is not constant curve.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you ever handled an AERO 1D?

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8 hours ago, GW8345 said:

The AERO 1D did not have a constant curve like you keep saying, it did have a straight center section.

 

clean up the text

 

http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/07/douglas-low-drag-external-fuel-tanks.html

 

The USAF tanks just had a strengthening strip added.

 

BTW, you are aware that there are different part number's for the AERO 1D, such as 75A550002-1001,  225–48000–96 and 225–48000–97. So what you are claiming is not an AERO 1D is in fact an AERO 1D, just a different part number.

 

And as far as the curve, take a look at MIL-T-81838(AS), NAVAIR 03–10JL–7 and ASIM AOP-12 Vol 2, there is not constant curve.

 

Just out of curiosity, have you ever handled an AERO 1D?

 

You are correct, the Aero 1D does have a straight center section. Looking at the line drawings in the linked blog post, the center section is 36 inches long, representing 15.8% of the total length. I was mistaken.

 

The Air Force tank differences are significantly more than adding a strengthening strip, however. Jake Melampy's Modern SLUF Guide identifies the Air Force as using different tanks as well. In his book, they are even described has having a larger diameter.

 

1. The center (straight) section of the Air Force tanks makes up 27.6% of the total length of the tank, significantly more than the 15.8% of the Douglas designed Aero 1Ds.

2. There are no Access doors on either side of the Air Force  tank.

3. The fuel filler cap is located at the 1 O'clock position on the Air Force tanks, where as they are located at the 11 O'clock position on the Aero 1Ds.

4. The tail fins are not reconfigurable on the Air Force pattern tanks, there are no slots to adjust fin position.

 

50111243751_ddc952eb33_o.pngrect865 by J Hooper, on Flickr

 

Airliners.net Photo showing the filler cap and lack of access doors on the starboard side.

 

Airliners.net Photo showing the same

 

Walkaround photo showing detail of the tail fins and lack of access doors on the port side

 

Which one of the Aero 1D part numbers listed above corresponds to the configuration differences I've identified?

 

I did take a look at the MIL-T-81838(AS), however, and it doesn't establish any of the fuel tank dimensions or profiles. Instead it directs that the tanks "shall be manufactured, inspected and tested in accordance with the drawings listed on NAVAIR Drawing 244AS100." Referencing that document is a distractor at best. Unfortunately NATEC no longer lists NAVAIR 03–10JL–7 or ASIM AOP-12 Vol 2. That also ignores the fact that those are NAVAIR documents which would not be authoritative for an Air Force aircraft. I would welcome you to upload the applicable portions of those manuals to show how the Aero 1D tank matches the differences I've identified above.

 

"Just out of curiosity, have you ever handled an AERO 1D?" This is an appeal to authority and a logical fallacy.

 

I'll answer with "Have you ever loaded fuel tanks on an Air Force A-7D or K?" because that is what the disagreement is about.

 

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10 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Yes, the standard A-7E tanker configuration was an D704 on station 1 and an AERO 1D on station 6 and 8.

 

Many thanks for the confirmation! Do you know whether the fuel tanks were 300 gallon types?

 

Rob

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3 hours ago, Hoops said:

 

I'll answer with "Have you ever loaded fuel tanks on an Air Force A-7D or K?" because that is what the disagreement is about.

 

Yes, once, when an ANG A-7D squadron (think it was either Michigan or Wisconsin) came down to Cecil Field and did a week with us (VA-82). Myself and few other ordies helped their ordies load their tanks for the return trip back home. Their tanks were basically just like ours' just painted differently.

 

 

BTW, funny store about the above.

 

While they were with us they flew BDU-33's and Mk 76's off of MER's. They loaded everything but the practice bombs with a Jammer (we called them SATS Loaders, think they were MJ-1's or something like that), basically, they weren't allowed to load anything over 25 lbs by hand. When it came time to load their tanks up for the return trip they had to use their jammer which was taking them forever so a group of us decided to help them out. We were allowed to load anything by hand provided we could pick it up so three of us (with one of the AF guys as supervisor/safety) hand loaded all their tanks onto one of our skids and went around and hand loaded their tanks for them. What would have taken them hours took us just minutes since we weren't restricted from "hand humping" like they were. This enable us to "secure" early and get to the E-club for a round a beer courtesy of our AF brothers.

 

So yea, I've handled A-7D drop tanks.

Edited by GW8345
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2 minutes ago, Rob de Bie said:

Thanks for the confirmation! In that case I can use the two tanks included in the Fujimi 1/72 A-7E, and only need to find a D704 pod.


Rob

There is a D-704 in the Fujimi KA-6D Intruder kit H-15. Also, Attack Squadron (ARMA Hobby) made a D704 in 1/72 scale, kit number 72027 or 72028, before they stopped production, you might be able to find one somewhere.

 

There is also one on Shapeway;

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/CJ3JW4BN3/1-72-scale-d-704-buddy-fuel-tank-usn

 

hth

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