Jump to content

Any good acrylic primers for acrylic paint?


Recommended Posts

Planning on getting some things for my next model. It would be the first model I’d be trying to airbrush paint on it. Is there a good non toxic acrylic primer that works well with acrylic paint? I need to stick with non toxic due to animals in my home with more delicate respiratory systems, so I know my options are limited. Is it even worth priming with acrylic primer? I heard a lot of horror stories about it messing up the models. Mine won’t be handled too much. Plus, I plan on making a display case for it at some point. Thank you for any responses and/or suggestions. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Badger stynylenz. It's a fantastic stuff, non-toxic and covers well without hiding the details. Comes in various colors for use. My goto is grey and black badger stynylenz. Never had any problems with it. Check out some videos on youtube. The only thing is, the white badger stynylez you have to mist on. The other colors you can just blast on (at 30psi) and it's fine. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No thinning required. Just load up your airbrush and spray. Word of warning, though. Do not leave your airbrush without cleaning it thoroughly after you use stynlrez primer. It tends to dry quick and will lock up your needle if there is any residual primer left on the needle. I forgot to clean mine one day and the only way to get the needle out was to use a pair of pliars. Other than that, it sprays beautifully! You can really hose it on and it will level out very nicely. Badger does recommend using a pressure setting of around 30-35 psi. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Historybuff said:

Appreciate the suggestion of Ammo. I have looked for it. Unfortunately it seems it’s very hard for me to get ahold of in anything other than white. 

Guess the word is out...that 'Murphys law of modeling' thread is playing out in real time.  Although, a quick glance shows it's available on their site

Link to post
Share on other sites

Badger stynylenz is a nice all rounder it takes well on unactivated surfaces and finishes smooth, it can also be sanded so great as a prep primer.

A nice finishing primer is any of the Vallejo Surface Primers, however they are finishing primers, polyurethane based so do not sand well at all as the surface will have a plasticised layer that will rip when sanded. But that surface is great for taking colours over it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2020 at 6:43 AM, Historybuff said:

Appreciate the suggestion of Ammo. I have looked for it. Unfortunately it seems it’s very hard for me to get a hold of in anything other than white. 

 

It is almost certainly rebranded Badger (or a remarkable likeness which happens to be made in the same country) and you may prefer the Badger cap to Ammo's spitting version, so you would not be missing out if you cannot find it.

Edited by Ade H
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/20/2020 at 2:32 PM, ElectroSoldier said:

Badger stynylenz is a nice all rounder it takes well on unactivated surfaces and finishes smooth, it can also be sanded so great as a prep primer.

Sorry for asking this as I’m new to primers. Will the badger primer be able to accept acrylic paint on it without another primer over it?

 

Also, I see they’re available in white, black and gray. When is it best to use gray, black or white? I heard from some that the color of primer doesn’t matter. I heard others say it does.  I’m looking more for versatility. As my model will mostly be an olive drab. However, it will have some things that are going to be lighter colors. 
 

last questions. Would you prime even tiny pieces that will probably be brush painted? If so, would you prime these separate from the rest of the model?

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Ade H said:

 

It is almost certainly rebranded Badger (or a remarkable likeness which happens to be made in the same country) and you may prefer the Badger cap to Ammo's spitting version, so you would not be missing out if you cannot find it.

Good to know. Thank you for that information. That might be why I’m having more trouble finding it. I’m also liking the ability to spray the Badger primer straight out of the bottle. Thinning is still new to me as I mostly used to just brush paint. I often didn’t need thinner or water for that.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ade H said:

Whenever I see that old myth about Vallejo poly primer not being sandable, I bridle at it. It can be sanded — I do so routinely.

 

Yeah Its not that is cant be sanded... I mean you can sand anything you like, you can sand a piece of sand paper if you want to. Its the surface that the polyurethane produces that means its not really all that great for sanding as when it cures a plasticised layer coats its outer surface, that surface can, not always but can tear. So yeah you can sand it but it doesnt change the fact that you will get a much rougher than normal activated surface.

I use Vallejo polyurethane primers on a regular basis, I know by experience what you can and cant do with them, I know what can and cant be done with stynelrez too and Halfords rattle can primer so yeah, my experience is its good but not as a primer to highlight defects that will need to be worked on, there are far better primers out there that dont have the top layer that vallejo does.

 

53 minutes ago, Historybuff said:

Sorry for asking this as I’m new to primers. Will the badger primer be able to accept acrylic paint on it without another primer over it?

 

Also, I see they’re available in white, black and gray. When is it best to use gray, black or white? I heard from some that the color of primer doesn’t matter. I heard others say it does.  I’m looking more for versatility. As my model will mostly be an olive drab. However, it will have some things that are going to be lighter colors. 
 

last questions. Would you prime even tiny pieces that will probably be brush painted? If so, would you prime these separate from the rest of the model?

 

Absolutely.
I usually give my primer coats at least 24 hours to fully cure, but if Im honest its more like a couple of days between a primer coat and the first colour coat going on.

Over Stynelrez Ive put Citadel acrylic, any Vallejo Acrylic, Tamiya Lacquer, acrylic and enamel & rattle can, life colour acrylic, MRP lacquer, Railmatch acrylic and enamel, Coat D Arms acrylic, Army painer......

The list of paints I have personally used over stynelrez is very long. I havent tried Model Master enamels, Zero paints (cellulose based so very hot paint, much hotter than lacquers), AMMO By mig Ive never used so i dont know, Alclad.

 

As to the colour.
Your primer colour is actually quite important, when you realise how paint, Im thinking acrylic paints here, I can talk about lacquers too but its slightly different, so ill concentrate on acrylics, works...

A paint is made up of three different things, once you realise what they are and how they work you will have a face palm moment because you will automatically know why a primer is important. And you will know why people are confused by acrylic paints and how Tamiya acrylic paint can be called that even though its uses alcohol not water.

 

A pigment. It can be made of anything these days. from natural to man made, it doesnt matter, it gives the colour. 

That pigment is put into a medium called a binder, for acrylic paints that binder is a water based liquid, its job is to make the pigment, which is basically coloured dust, stay where you want it to stay. Over time it goes hard and the pigment is then fixed. Then finally you have another liquid which is technically called a vehicle, this is used to allow you to put the binder/pigment where you want it. Tamiya use alcohol, Citadel and Railmatch use water... it doesnt really matter what it is it will evaporate very quickly and just allows you to slide the medium around to where you want it to be.

 

The pigment in the binder isnt 100% saturation, there are gaps, holes if you like between the very fine dust particles.

So what you have is a mesh like layer over your primer.

The more layers of mesh you put one on top of each other the more you will cover up the primer but ideally you dont really want to swamp your primer with to many layers of mesh otherwise you will end up with a very thick layer of paint and cover the details.

Thin coats of paint is the key and a thin coat of paint will reveal its primer underneath, if you use a bright primer you will sor of under light the pigments, if you use a metallic one or a dark one you will have the same effect, a dark primer can dull the brightness but give some pigments a deeper luster, while a light primer might make them lighter and lose the luster is favor of being light.

 

Some paints are thicker than others and if the person painting them lays it on thick anyway then you will lose the primer under the thick mesh of pigments.

 

It really depends on the paint and the person painting as to whether a primer is imporant, which is why you see conflicting stories. but it you paint in a certain way a primers colour can be very important indeed...
Watch Andys Hobby Headquarters and the way he paints the grey on German tanks to see what Im talking about. The primer he uses changes the colour of the paint. literally. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

If Vallejo primer is skinning, I can only imagine that it has been sprayed much too thickly. As Vallejo advises, it needs only a light coat. It is somewhat easier to make the gloss black skin if maltreated, but even that never skins when applied carefully.

When I began using it several years ago, my tests were unable to replicate any skinning effect unless it was sprayed too heavily and with no thinner. Or brushed on, of course. Then, it certainly skinned and therefore imperfections were not repairable. But I would not blame a product for my error. I use various colours of it every day in preference to my other primers. When used properly, it certainly can be sanded with feathering.

One of the mistakes which I have seen fellow club members make was to use a stiff sanding implement or too hard a grit instead of flexible sanding materials designed for paint. It cannot handle stiff sanders, but I wouldn't expect it to. Much like Badger primer, the matte finishes can be buffed into a soft sheen, which is handy for using under gloss paint.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not talking about a skin that would form when it is applied in a thick coat.

Im talking about what it is. im talking about what you will get when you apply a polyurethane paint. Its not a product problem, it is supposed to do that, its to do with the science of it and what makes it what it is 🙂

 

a polyurethane coating is a liquid plastic which dries to form a paint-like film on a substrate

 

Now that applies to all PU paints including Vallejos Polyurethane primers.

You are trying to tell me that you could sand a sheet of PU... which yeah I guess you could, you could sand it away but the results will never be anywhere near as good as if you were to use another paint that is more suited to being sanded.

Im not saying it cant be done, Im not saying you cant sand this primer. You could sand anything, but of all the products out there there are ones that are better if you know you will have to sand it after its applied because they will not have the PU coating, which is what a Polyurethane paint is and will always give.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@ElectroSoldier, I have order the badger primer suggested in 2 oz black, white, gray (I hope). I’m still waiting on a shipping confirmation. Thank you for the advice on types of color primers. I did some research, I’m thinking of coating the tank that’ll be olive drab black and the tank commander in white primer. It seemed like that was also a common approach used by a lot of people with similar color schemes. Thank you for the advice again! Hoping this primer works for me as a first timer airbrushing the majority of my paints and using primers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

You are trying to tell me that you could sand a sheet of PU.

 

No, I am not. I don't appreciate being misrepresented. Why are you being so impolite? I only tried to point out that Vallejo matte primer can be sanded in the same way as Badger primer with much the same performance, but I would not have bothered mentioning it if I thought that you would bafflingly continue to argue against an inarguable fact.

If you cannot get a good result from something, that is one thing (and it is equally true of many good products) but that is not remotely a valid reason to think that it cannot work for anyone. That would be utterly illogical.

 

@HistorybuffMy apologies if this is hijacking your question somewhat, but I can't ignore claims which I know from experience are misrepresentative.

Edited by Ade H
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Historybuff said:

@ElectroSoldier, I have order the badger primer suggested in 2 oz black, white, gray (I hope). I’m still waiting on a shipping confirmation. Thank you for the advice on types of color primers. I did some research, I’m thinking of coating the tank that’ll be olive drab black and the tank commander in white primer. It seemed like that was also a common approach used by a lot of people with similar color schemes. Thank you for the advice again! Hoping this primer works for me as a first timer airbrushing the majority of my paints and using primers. 

Good colours, watch some of the Andys hobby videos on youtube abbout panzer grey, the tank painted light grey or white, which black lines sprays over the panel edges, so you end up with a panel that is white with a black outside, they sprayed olive with a nice light coat gives a really nice effect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2020 at 10:51 PM, Historybuff said:

Awesome! Does it need any thinning? Also, when would you recommend black vs gray primer? For instance, my next novel will be a M4A3E8 Sherman tank in olive drab. What color primer works best?

They have an Olive drab primer, I've used it as a color coat.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/24/2020 at 2:03 PM, ElectroSoldier said:

Good colours, watch some of the Andys hobby videos on youtube abbout panzer grey, the tank painted light grey or white, which black lines sprays over the panel edges, so you end up with a panel that is white with a black outside, they sprayed olive with a nice light coat gives a really nice effect.

Definitely going to watch that. I’ve recently watched some of his videos. It’s very informative. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...