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5 hours ago, mungo1974 said:

Aviano 100%, not sure if there's enough room for the 480th to join the 31stFW. 

Would be surprised if they replace one of the current Blk40s Sqn with the Blk50s and take on the SEAD role freeing up a bunch of Blk40's for the ANG to use. 

Is Aviano's ramp so full it can't take one additional F-16 Squadron?

 

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1 hour ago, Da SWO said:

Is Aviano's ramp so full it can't take one additional F-16 Squadron?

 

 

During Allied Force Aviano housed an additional squadron from Shaw along with F-117s, F-15Es, EA-6B Prowlers and Canadian Hornets. More room then enough me thinks.

Edited by pollie
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Just some food for thought::

 

- I believe it is fair to say that both LtGen Hertling (cited above) and LtGen Hodges as former commanders of US Army Europe (USAREUR) know what they are talking about when they assess the announced troop reductions in Germany as detrimental to the strategic posture of the U.S. and the security of all NATO members.

 

- LtGen Hertling was strictly opposed to the withdrawal of the last 2 heavy Infantry Brigades from Germany between 2012 and 2014 by the Obama administration. Coincidentally (?), Russia occupied the Crimea peninsula, sent troops to Ukraine, and fostered a more aggressive stance towards the Baltic republics Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia shortly after. In the aftermath, the U.S. spent billions of USD to consistently rotate troops from CONUS to Europe to support these countries. 

 

- The NATO-Russia agreement from 1997 prohibits NATO from permanently stationing foreign troops on the soil of former Warsaw pact countries, that why the troops are relocated from Germany to Italy and Belgium. According to President Trump, this is done to punish Germany for spending only 1,4% of the GNP for their military. While I agree that the German military does not reflect the economic potency and strategic importance of the country, it is worth mentioning that Italy spends about 1,1% and Belgium about 0.9% of the GNP on their respective militaries.

 

- More than the inherent NATO commitment to protect Germany, U.S. Forces have used the bases in central Europe to pursue the strategic interest of the U.S. A mainstay of U.S. foreign policy is to  maintain influence in all critical parts of the world; and Europe is still the politically and economically most important region outside North America. Germany is the main hub to deploy troops throughout Europe, Africa and the eastern part of Asia. Unfortunately, you don't keep up influence when presence is reduced. 

 

- From a logistic and economic point of view, it makes sense to consolidate F-16 units of USAFE at one base. While Aviano has  temporarily hosted plenty of deployed units during OAF and other operations in the region, Spangdahlem has previouly been the home of 4 permanently assigned squadrons and has the surrounding infrastructure, resulting from the base expansion when additional AMC capabilities were added after the closure of Rhein Main AB (new cargo ramp and passenger terminal).

 

 

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As somebody who has lived in northern and Italy and now in Germany, if it is truly about cost savings through consolidation, then it seems it would be much cheaper to consolidate F-16's at Spang as opposed to consolidating at Aviano.

 

Aviano is in the middle of nowhere and a pain to get to if you aren't flying in. Not to mention that base access and command is also less than ideal when compared to bases in Germany.  Spang, oth, is still easily accessible from Ramstein and Frankfurt (as well as NATO HQ).  Additionally, everything costs significantly more in northern Italy than Germany.  And while EU and local regulations can create issues with local employees, the German system is much better than the Italian. 

 

The logic of this does not add up at all. How in the world are rotational deployments sustainable on a force structure that is already worn out, over-stressed and likely soon to be underfunded. It just doesn't pass the smell test.

Edited by CJH
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Drove that way a couple of times, I did a road trip from my place a little town close to Marseille (Martigues), went through by way of Venice Budapest and Prague to Warsaw. While I wouldnt say its near anywhere its not really a pain to get to by any means. Spangdahlem on the other hand is on the western edge of Germany. I think Luxemburg is the closest city, which is in another country. while Marco Polo Airport is in Venice. 

Edited by ElectroSoldier
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