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F-14A VF-32 Vertical tails color


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Hi, I want to know what is the real color of the vertical tails of the F-14A VF-32 circa 1990. The Furball Decal sheet call for Gloss Sea Blue FS15042 , but the  Colors & Markings of U.S. Navy F-14 Tomcats (Part 1) book call for Black Tails. Hard to tell from the pictures.

 

 

 

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Edited by joscasle
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Look at the radome to fuselage joint at first photo. You can actually see the difference between this deep dark blue and black around the canopy

Edited by Tapchan
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Tapchan said:

Look at the radome to fuselage joint at first photo. You can actually see the difference between this deep dark blue and black around the canopy

My main concern is with the tails. I think the F-14B that use similar scheme the tails are black

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/QlUXheA

Edited by joscasle
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I doubt they would use blue only for the strip and then black for the vertical tails. I see the same blue on the inner side of the tail. Look at the second photo and compare black which is on the canopy frame with the tail... However AC201 seem to have everything black, no difference around canopy is distinguishable, that may be just light but with AC200 you can see it.

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162701_1.jpg

Source: http://212.158.133.54/pages/en/usa/f-14.html

 

You can see black is not on the whole height on the side of canopy frame.

 

Now, when you crop the second photo please confirm you see no difference between black "NAVY" font and tail 🙂

50204049622_c0dd01fa98_o.png

 

PS. If you don't trust your (and mine) eyes then download Hobby Color Converter app, open the pipette function and go all over those black areas. I know it hardly depends on the colors of your screen but I've checked it on 2 screens (TV and other phone). Both says - blue. Not as bright as on the photo but gives general idea 🙂

50203822506_5d4f521890_z.jpg

Edited by Tapchan
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When I look at the completed kit using Fightertown decals, the rounders look to also be dark, or insignia blue.  I have photos and in them all of the dark blue look black.  If I knew how to reduce the file size, I'd share them here. 

Edited by fasteagle12
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VF-32 Tails were blue back then, they were a couple of lines down the flight line from our line (VF-103) back in 90 and when I was in VF-101 (Feb 88 to Mar 90) their line was right outside my shop so needless to say, I saw their jets all the time and their CAG bird tails were blue

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They are definitely Dark Sea Blue. I have a jar of model master acrylic for this jet, FS15042.

 

I wish we could get decals for the jet with the desert storm patch.

Edited by tomthegrom
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19 hours ago, tomthegrom said:

They are definitely Dark Sea Blue. I have a jar of model master acrylic for this jet, FS15042.

 

I wish we could get decals for the jet with the desert storm patch.

 

I think they were Insignia Blue.

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14 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

I think they were Insignia Blue.

 Damn! I thought they were that colour originally. The Furball sheet has it as gloss sea blue so I went and bought a jar of paint.

 

I would trust your knowledge about all things tomcat though. So Insignia Blue it is?

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48 minutes ago, tomthegrom said:

 Damn! I thought they were that colour originally. The Furball sheet has it as gloss sea blue so I went and bought a jar of paint.

 

I would trust your knowledge about all things tomcat though. So Insignia Blue it is?

I have the same decal sheet. That is why I am asking. I'm not sure what color I need to use.

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To be honest, I'm going off of prior discussions from over the years. This exact same discussion came up when Superscale released their sheet right after Desert Storm. They called out black for the tails, and no one really questioned it. Then someone got to looking at the pictures and realized they were blue. At the time, it was determined to be Insignia Blue, which at times can appear almost black. Geoff at Furball may have found a reference for the paint color. The only thing I question is that they wouldn't have had GSB on hand. They would have readily had Insignia Blue, however. The same kind of discussion was also had about VF-11's tails. They looked black as well, but I know they were painted Insignia Blue because I stood next to the airplane and looked directly at them. If you think Insignia Blue isn't dark enough, you might solve it by adding in a bit of black to darken it up. 

Edited by Darren Roberts
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Looking at the top photo posted above by Tapchan, to my eye the Insignia Blue of the roundel is distinctly darker than the dark blue on the fuselage. There's also, IMHO, a faint tinge of greenishness in the fuselage blue, so I would go with Gloss Sea Blue for the fuselage/tail color.

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This is why everyone originally thought it was black.

Gypsy 201

 

This is from Dave Brown, and I'm assuming it's upon return from DS. The picture is dark, but to me the tails and skunk stripe look to be the same color as the national insignia.

Gypsy 200

 

Here's a black and white of 201. You can see the demarcation between the black anti-glare panel and the blue.

windscreen

 

Here's another sideview of 201. Again from Dave Brown. The tails look almost black, but so does the national insignia. We know the national insignia wasn't black.

sideview

 

It appears they have painted the forward fuselage and tails for the fly-in from DS. Most of the squadrons from the Kennedy did this to their CAG and CO jets. This is pure supposition, but you wouldn't think they'd have Glossy Sea Blue on hand to repaint the tails. They would have Insignia Blue, though. The other thing is that Glossy Sea Blue wasn't being used (as far as I know) on any Navy schemes. I could be completely wrong, but I think it's Insignia Blue. This is a perfect example of why going pictures can be so deceiving.

 

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Hi Darren. Those photos are indeed persuasive. I still think I'm seeing a slight difference in the blues in Tapchan's photos. Could be a trick of the light, but looking at the outer edge of the FOD cover, it looks lighter and bluer than the roundel at the same angle. Is it possible they custom mixed the trim color starting with Insignia Blue?

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1 hour ago, seawinder said:

Hi Darren. Those photos are indeed persuasive. I still think I'm seeing a slight difference in the blues in Tapchan's photos. Could be a trick of the light, but looking at the outer edge of the FOD cover, it looks lighter and bluer than the roundel at the same angle. Is it possible they custom mixed the trim color starting with Insignia Blue?

 

That thought crossed my mind. It sure does appear darker than Insignia Blue in a lot of pictures. Here's a couple pictures of VF-11's tails to compare. I know they were Insignia Blue. You can see the difference in colorin different lighting situations. The tails are both painted the same color.

Ripper 200    

Ripper 100

Edited by Darren Roberts
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Here's what I remember of VF-32's tails;

 

The blue was slight lighter than Insignia Blue, it was close to gloss sea blue (the gloss sea blue you see on modern restored WWII aircraft).

 

As for the squadron having insignia blue on hand, yes they did but from what I remember we only had insignia blue on hand in spray (rattle) cans when I was in Tomcat's back then and not in quart/gallon size cans. You could still order just about any color you wanted and get it in either quart or gallon size can so it is quite possible that VF-32 ordered dark sea blue (or a color similar) for their tails.

 

To me their tail blue did not quite match the blue in the national insignia, it was a lighter shade. 

 

I'm not trying to disprove or prove anyone's research or their idea of what the color actually was, just throwing out what I remember from being around their aircraft. As I stated above, their flight line was right outside my shop when I was in VF-101 (in the first pic Joscale posted you can see my shop (red door) under the left horizontal stab) and their Ordnance Shop was next door to mine shop. When I went over to VF-103 their flight line was  few lines down from ours so I saw their jets regularly;

 

Here is the Kennedy's Desert Storm Cruise book;

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv67-91/index.html

Edited by GW8345
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Something else to keep in mind when it comes to modern USN/USMC paint schemes. Not everything is, or has been painted with FS colors, so the actual color used by VF-32 may not be any of the specific blues you're referencing (15042, etc).

 

As an example, the brown used by VMFA-323 on both their current flagship, as well as their flagship from 2009 is Krylon Leather Brown. It was obtained via open purchase from a local paint supplier. While a decal source lists the color as being close to FS30059, it's just 'close' and not the actual color used. While researching VMFA(AW)-225's last flagship, none of the colors used to paint the scheme were FS colors. All were commercially available paints sourced via open purchase.

 

Not stating as fact this is the case with VF-32, but something to be aware of. 

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1 hour ago, GW8345 said:

Here's what I remember of VF-32's tails;

 

The blue was slight lighter than Insignia Blue, it was close to gloss sea blue (the gloss sea blue you see on modern restored WWII aircraft).

 

As for the squadron having insignia blue on hand, yes they did but from what I remember we only had insignia blue on hand in spray (rattle) cans when I was in Tomcat's back then and not in quart/gallon size cans. You could still order just about any color you wanted and get it in either quart or gallon size can so it is quite possible that VF-32 ordered dark sea blue (or a color similar) for their tails.

 

To me their tail blue did not quite match the blue in the national insignia, it was a lighter shade. 

 

I'm not trying to disprove or prove anyone's research or their idea of what the color actually was, just throwing out what I remember from being around their aircraft. As I stated above, their flight line was right outside my shop when I was in VF-101 (in the first pic Joscale posted you can see my shop (red door) under the left horizontal stab) and their Ordnance Shop was next door to mine shop. When I went over to VF-103 their flight line was  few lines down from ours so I saw their jets regularly;

 

Here is the Kennedy's Desert Storm Cruise book;

 

https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv67-91/index.html

 

Good info. I by no means am an expert. I'm just going off of prior knowledge. I love learning new things, so keep imparting wisdom. When I heard Gloss Sea Blue, I immediately went to the post WW II color. That just didn't seem right. The only other FS color I knew was Insignia Blue. I think Dave Roof may be on to something with a custom mix. I think we can all agree they weren't black! 

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