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Timeline end of F-4J - start of F-14A...


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12 hours ago, Quixote74 said:

 

VF-74 went to CVW-17 (AA) and did a couple of Atlantic/Med cruises in Phantoms before going to Tomcats.  Not sure how the markings may differ aside from the tail codes (and obviously will depend on exactly which Nimitz cruise you're depicting - the Jolly Rogers were in hi-viz until the early 80s).

 

I don't see anything in Starfighter's catalog that would help you, and even Tomcat decals that are close to Phantom markings from the same unit would require you to buy a full air wing set ($40-50 RRP).

 

Your best option may be finding a squadron whose Phantom markings were pretty simple (VF-31 comes to mind) and using letter decals or dry tranfers to replicate the tail codes.

 

Correct, VF-161 and VF-151 were on Midway in this era (NF tailcodes). Always a Pacific fleet unit in this era, so no chance of hopping over to Nimitz.

The CVW-8 VF-74 markings were VERY different from the CVW-17 markings. On Nimitz they were high vis bi-centennial markings, on the next cruise was the beginnings of low vis.

 

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I'm late to this party, so maybe I'm missing the original point, but if you're asking about ANY F-4J's on the Nimitz after -41 and -84 brought their Tomcats aboard, I do know that in The Final Countdown a VMFA-333 Shamrocks F-4J is seen on deck.  

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On 8/19/2020 at 10:33 AM, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

I'm late to this party, so maybe I'm missing the original point, but if you're asking about ANY F-4J's on the Nimitz after -41 and -84 brought their Tomcats aboard, I do know that in The Final Countdown a VMFA-333 Shamrocks F-4J is seen on deck.  

 

in the words of Amadeus, "Well, there it is!" Proof that at least on one occasion there was an F-4J where it wasn't supposed to be. It's fun to watch people react to things like that. When I backdated the Tamiya Enterprise to the '76 cruise, I put one Tomcat in Heater-Ferris markings, because both VF-1 and VF-2 had one each painted up. I overheard someone looking at the model commenting how they wouldn't have had a camouflaged Air Force  jet on board a Navy carrier. 😂

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7 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said:

 

in the words of Amadeus, "Well, there it is!" Proof that at least on one occasion there was an F-4J where it wasn't supposed to be. It's fun to watch people react to things like that. When I backdated the Tamiya Enterprise to the '76 cruise, I put one Tomcat in Heater-Ferris markings, because both VF-1 and VF-2 had one each painted up. I overheard someone looking at the model commenting how they wouldn't have had a camouflaged Air Force  jet on board a Navy carrier. 😂

 

Frustrating when we know, but they don't....

Guess the same would go if you tried to include the brief "F-4G" experimental green camo on the F-4B airframe.....

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On 8/15/2020 at 1:23 AM, phasephantomphixer said:

Yup, you got me there. Wanting to situate my 1/350 Trumpeter Nimitz to the 1977 transition timeframe - include at least one or two of my little Phantoms, but surely must have

my VF-84 Cats on duty. Since i've been grabbing up the markings for the rest, A-7, A-6, etc. as well. Think IIRC the RA-5 was still on deck too(?). Just think it was an interesting period for the Nimitz. Thanks for the insight, back then who'da cared?

Watch :The Final Countdown" I believe it was filmed in 1977.  It had one F-4 in the hanger...

 

Nevermind. Someone already commented this.

Edited by adamitri
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Just now, adamitri said:

Watch :The Final Countdown" I believe it was filmed in 1977.  It had one F-4 in the hanger...

I think the hangar scene was filmed elsewhere than the Nimitz (I could be wrong) but go back a couple posts and you'll see mention that one from VMFA-333 Shamrocks was seen on deck during one of the landing scenes.  I'll try to find exactly where in the film tonight if able.

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Just now, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

I think the hangar scene was filmed elsewhere than the Nimitz (I could be wrong) but go back a couple posts and you'll see mention that one from VMFA-333 Shamrocks was seen on deck during one of the landing scenes.  I'll try to find exactly where in the film tonight if able.

Yeah i didnt make it to the second page before i commented. I think the scene is when they were moving weapons around in the hanger deck...

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On 8/20/2020 at 1:25 PM, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

I think the hangar scene was filmed elsewhere than the Nimitz (I could be wrong) but go back a couple posts and you'll see mention that one from VMFA-333 Shamrocks was seen on deck during one of the landing scenes.  I'll try to find exactly where in the film tonight if able.

Shown on deck and from unit that was part of prior cruise.

No way it had been REAL broke and been below deck since previous cruise, 

surely Nimitz had been docked between cruises, etc. Right?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just snapped these three pics the old-fashioned way by pointing a camera at the TV screen....these are from The Final Countdown (Nimitz '80-81).  What is this F-4J on deck there, with all the red-orange, is it Naval Air Test Center or similar?

It's not stock footage, all other aircraft in each photo are CVW-8.

 

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Great shots - any chance you took note of approximately when those scenes came up? Or am I going to have to "suffer through" watching the entire movie for research purposes? 😆

 

The film was released in August 1980 so principal photography was actually during 1979.  According to the Wikipedia article they shot onboard during two separate periods, as well as on shore at Oceana.  Nimitz had just come out of a yard period in July '79, with the full CVW-8 cruise starting in September.

 

As for the mystery Phantom, the "red" (I suspect actually International Orange) vertical tails and outer wing panels are a scheme used by the NATC (Pax River, Maryland) during this period. In the first shot you can also see a long block of text (illegible) along the fuselage side above the NAVY title which was also an NATC feature.

22848325804_8139b9cc51_z.jpg

 

The test birds wouldn't deploy on board for a full cruise, but it's very plausible they came aboard briefly while the carrier was still close to home.

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Well, the first is when the RF-8 is coming back aboard, just moments after the Tomcats launch to investigate the yacht (and their amazing meeting with the Zeros).  You can see the wings emblem on the side of the nose of the Hawkeye.

The other two are from when the strike force is launching en masse to intercept the Japanese attacking Task Force.  

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Nice work guys!

But now have two questions...

Are there any of these F-4 shots from FC film with F-14 in it too?

Or do we just figure they took deck footage same time?

And first screenshot the F-4 is parked rear deck - can't get a # from it, and it has chin sensor like a J,

but the last two shots are definitely an S with the # and slats.

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Well....since all shots involve the CVW-8 airwing, including the Hawkeye, the VA-35 A-6 and the Sidewinders A-7, along with everything else being CVW-8, then I have a hard time imagining the whole air wing would be there without the Tomcats.  I know it's tough to make out in my poor quality pics, but it's pretty obvious on the screen actually watching it.

Edited by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy
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43 minutes ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said:

Well....since all shots involve the CVW-8 airwing, including the Hawkeye, the VA-35 A-6 and the Sidewinders A-7, along with everything else being CVW-8, then I have a hard time imagining the whole air wing would be there without the Tomcats.  I know it's tough to make out in my poor quality pics, but it's pretty obvious on the screen actually watching it.

Agreed - Great researching and Thanks!

Think it a real nice addition to include the NATC research F-4's, and to scratch the slats in 1/350. About done with mastering them in 1/32 resin...

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4 hours ago, phasephantomphixer said:

Nice work guys!

But now have two questions...

Are there any of these F-4 shots from FC film with F-14 in it too?

Or do we just figure they took deck footage same time?

And first screenshot the F-4 is parked rear deck - can't get a # from it, and it has chin sensor like a J,

but the last two shots are definitely an S with the # and slats.

 

I'm actually pretty sure it's the same aircraft in the first shot also, and it's an early S.  The standard fit for.the J and S includes the same undernose antenna setup: where the IR seeker fairing was on the B/N, the J/S has a smaller rounded rectangular antenna for the ALQ-51 ECM system (best way to describe the shape is an inverted mailbox).  The main S feature it's lacking is the strip formation lights, but in the Airfighters photo linked above you can clearly see it 157826 has the slatted wing (exclusive to the S) but no strip lights fitted (yet?).

 

And while it's not entirely legible, the modex seems to read as 2XX.  NATC's standard format was to use the last three digits of the BuNo, so it's likely this is 157286 spotted aft of the island, rather than some other F-4S at an entirely different point in time.

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  • 1 year later...

5Late to this thread, but can add some clarity. 

Nimitz 1st cruise book has photos of sea trials, deck trials and early shakedown cruise. There are photos of VF-142 (AJ) and VF-143 (unk) with VMFA-333(AJ/USS NIMITZ) in same shot. Ea-6bs, A-7s and E-2 with AJ/Nimitz, S-3 & RA-5 (AC). A-7 NATC & F-14 (development/prototypes). Even RN F-4K/FG.1s from Ark Royal.

 

 

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20220121_150052.thumb.jpg.e4724b5c45354b6a70f008e9dbd414df.jpgLater the first operational cruise was all Phantoms, VF-31 (still marked AC-1xx and carrying USS Saratoga titles) and VMFA-333  AJ-12x USS Nimitz. 

Next cruise was VMFA AJ-1xx and VF-74 AJ-2xx.

Then the F-14s took over, VF-41 & 84 high vis. Of note here was the S-3s had big AJ in red, next cruise was small AJ in black same as VA-86 AJ.

By time of Final Countdown, VF-41 were overall grey, still full colour Nat insignia but no other colour. VF-84 were still high vis BUT the upper flaps and tailplanes were now gull grey (bottom still white). There are a couple of shots in the film of the NATC Phantom ( J or S? I can't tell). And a NATC A-7e as well. Starfighter decals do these both in the ship scales and HAD are planning them as future releases. I have a photo from an S3 on approach to Nimitz showing both on the deck with the rest of CVW-8 including 41/84.

20220121_150103.jpg

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You could do it the other way round: two F-14s deployed on Enterprise in February 1982 were forced to land on Midway due to weather. The Midway air wing was assigned VF-151 and VF-161 F-4s; the Enterprise F-14s were VF-114 (111NH) and VF-213 (202NH). They were parked outboard on the port side of the angled deck; they were launched from the port-side bow catapult after the morning launch cleared the deck enough that they could be launched with the jet blast deflector down.

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Your welcome. I've a long term model project of a collection of CVW-8 and visitors to Nimitz from trials/ commissioning in 1975 to  transfer to Pacific in 1987. (I've a few from later but had to draw the line somewhere).

It was interesting that the same air wing had such stability with some squadrons (VA-82 & 86) and not with others (5 different Prowler sqds). There are also examples of individual aircraft serving with more than one squadron. RA-5C 156624 was with RVAH-9 one one cruise, and after they were disbanded she was back on Nimitz for the next cruise with RVAH-6. Likewise EA-6B 159910 was with VAQ-135 and later crashed with VMAQ-2. 

At least 5 different colour schemes for VF-41 and 6 or more for VF-84. And that's before you add in visitors like our famous NATC F-4S, 2 identified FG.1s, a pair of French Navy F-8s, various nationalities helos. Add in the test and training aircraft (early F-8s and prototype Tomcat) and that's a large collection. 

 

I'd better make a start.

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