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Which chinpod for F-14A (1974) VF-1 Wolfpack modex 100


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On 9/10/2020 at 9:02 PM, GW8345 said:

Looks like I was wrong, at least one short gun F-14 was sent to VF-1 in June 1973. It looks to be the first Tomcat VF-1 got and to my knowledge it is the only Block 65 VF-1 had (they did the work ups and 74/75 cruise with Block 70's).

 

If you want to do the first Tomcat VF-1 (1973 time frame with the black canopy rail) then you will need to covert it to a short gun Tomcat.

 

There's a pic of the Tomcat that was used for the photo shoot on page 93 in the AERO Tomcat book.

 

 

 

Looks great, wm_cheng! 

 

On Page 32 of the first F-14 In Action book, there’s a photo of a 101-coded VF-1 F-14 with the short muzzle and an all-gray canopy. Only ALQ-100 underneath, no glove pylons at all, and all-white nose gear doors - no black data block. Must be the same one - Block 65 buno 158627.

 

On that same page, the photo above the one I mentioned has the next ‘101’, aboard ship with black on the doors and crew names on the canopy rail. The photo is flipped horizontally so the gun muzzle can’t be seen.

 

The web is tangled... And I’m an F-14 nerd.

Edited by andrew.deboer
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Another question, I haven't found any photos of the back tailpipe of the Phoenix missiles, the model is just a recessed blank (which is what I've seen on all the models) - so is there a cover that blows off when they are fired?  If so, what colour should it be?  Black or white? 

 

I see that most photos show the Phoenixes with a white tip and the instructions call for a radome tan tip (which I quite like the look of) - would there be any problems following the instructions on this?

 

Thanks @Mstor - I used Mr. Color 315 (FS16440 Gull Grey) - although I find it a bit light compared to my swatch, but it seems like Mr. Color is always a bit lighter than the swatch on any of the greys (however I only have a later 2008 595C swatch book and I'm told the 595A would have a FS16440 that is closer to the 1974 version).  I didn't have Mr. Color 316 (FS17875 White) on hand and couldn't find it anywhere so I did the belly with just Tamiya Acrylic White / a mix of gloss and flat to get me a semi-gloss finish.  I have subsequently found the Mr. Color 316 and its a lot warmer than the Tamiya White, I'm currently painting the fuel tanks and missiles in this - I don't mind the difference in the white as the ordinance were often a different shade.

 

ACtC-3ffJA_07EOj_IEEFtjT_RqjGg_c0WsPTpY8

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Here's a pic of the back end of a Phoenix, the exhaust cone would be dark brown,  military brown FS 30117 is extremely close to the real thing.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fsistemasdearmas.com.br%2Fca%2Faamaim54datalink.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fzone-five.net%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D27518%26styleid%3D3&tbnid=cmTMdzFoHieQXM&vet=10CFQQMyjzAWoXChMI2LO9r7v46wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAM..i&docid=Dj8p-mHFLrRptM&w=463&h=255&q=aim-54 phoenix&ved=0CFQQMyjzAWoXChMI2LO9r7v46wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAM

 

The environmental seal (center of the exhaust cone) would either be dark tan, grey or brown (just depends

 

The small white circle is the MOAT* Antenna and at the 7 o'clock (more lile 6:30) position it the drain for the elctrolyte drain.

 

Here's another shot that shows you what the brown looked like.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fmilitary%2Fsystems%2Fmunitions%2Fimages%2Faim-54c_030310-n-4655m-002.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fmilitary%2Fsystems%2Fmunitions%2Faim-54-pics.htm&tbnid=3M6CzR98chMybM&vet=12ahUKEwiYgsigu_jrAhWXlXIEHcycD3QQMyhNegUIARCAAQ..i&docid=iSs4XQbJxIxyMM&w=800&h=525&q=aim-54 phoenix&ved=2ahUKEwiYgsigu_jrAhWXlXIEHcycD3QQMyhNegUIARCAAQ

 

The out ring (back end of the control section) would either be black or the same brown as the exhaust cone.

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F2%2F22%2FAIM-54_Phoenix_behind.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AAIM-54_Phoenix_behind.jpg&tbnid=1WI-qZwOerUMcM&vet=10CEoQMyiIAWoXChMI2LO9r7v46wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAI..i&docid=A2G9MO_wBxVXtM&w=1536&h=1484&q=aim-54 phoenix&ved=0CEoQMyiIAWoXChMI2LO9r7v46wIVAAAAAB0AAAAAEAI

 

*Missile On Aircraft Test

 

The radome is an off white/flat white (eggshell at most), I've never seen a grey or tan radome, it does have a metal (silver) tip though. They may appear grey but that is the white ceramic getting little dirty.

 

As for the gull grey, it would fade slightly after a while so a lighter shade is accurate.

 

hth

GW

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Thanks, unfortunately there's no molding for the rocket motor itself, just the outside ring - I guess dark grey should do.  Thanks for those photos!!!

 

I've seen a lot of these photos for the newer Phoenixes, I was hoping the older ones (70s) would have the radome tan color as on the instructions (looks good!) - haven't found many photos of these missiles for that vintage.  Just plain white eh - darn, so boring.

 

So the Sidewinders all white and the Sparrows all white except for a light grey nosecone ok?

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The radome on Sparrows was the same as the Phoenix, off white.

 

The guidance section (seeker) on Sidewinders was a metallic black/green.

 

For the Phoenix, the ones that they flew in the 70's would be the same as I described above. I was around Phoenix's starting in 84 (worked CAGARM on the cats arming them), they were the same one's what were flown in 70's (you can tell but the date of manufacture stenciled on the components).

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On 9/20/2020 at 8:16 AM, wm_cheng said:

however I only have a later 2008 595C swatch book and I'm told the 595A would have a FS16440 that is closer to the 1974 version).

Is this (the one you have in the photo) colour fandeck better - from a quality perspective - than the 595C book?

 

The reason I'm asking this is because there is a significant price difference between these two products and I want to know if it's worth investing in buying the book which is more expensive.

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8 hours ago, wm_cheng said:

So this photo isn't a grey tip on the Sparrow?

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The radome was ceramic, it would get dirty and there wasn't a real way to clean it completely so while it may appear to be grey it really was just a dirty white.

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AIM-9G/H

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-EjJT0WSfF70%2FWDhm5-FaXHI%2FAAAAAAAAIvA%2F4OpjWGqfBd86ylBmDX9mpSF6w_rg-D2ewCLcB%2Fs640%2Faim-9h%2Ba-4.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthecombatworkshop.blogspot.com%2F2016%2F11%2Fsidewinder-overview-part-ii-aim-9dgh.html&tbnid=8QnN5E9nC2R57M&vet=12ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygcegUIARDhAQ..i&docid=07R25UG0JZzAeM&w=564&h=259&q=AIM-9G&ved=2ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygcegUIARDhAQ

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.warthunder.com%2Fuploads%2Fmonthly_2019_11%2FIMG_20191103_120843.jpg.78ac535fd3bf1f0961fcb0e1ca3af43e.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.warthunder.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F467664-193024-phantom-fgr2-incorrect-aim-9-launch-rails%2F&tbnid=U_queOukkHiHXM&vet=12ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygnegUIARD4AQ..i&docid=za0h5C-MrEFuhM&w=4032&h=3024&q=AIM-9G&ved=2ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygnegUIARD4AQ

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-TlMuXVNqnUU%2FWDhm59vdNJI%2FAAAAAAAAIu4%2FsZhRO-NqErg50SMZiSvgXQL9a24XtBFggCLcB%2Fs640%2Faim-9g.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.warthunder.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F468522-the-aim-9-sidewinder-missile-technology-history-and-performance%2F&tbnid=2NgFOy03Hc3sGM&vet=12ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygEegUIARCqAQ..i&docid=2QyPtsMfIOe0QM&w=564&h=422&q=AIM-9G&ved=2ahUKEwiDhfXNkPvrAhVFR1kKHdx7DekQMygEegUIARCqAQ

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-VmHuXlmLFHU%2FWDhfT3twj7I%2FAAAAAAAAIt4%2F4W_xSDId498mFWBr3-l0GJ3D4CLZd5xvQCLcB%2Fs1600%2FNEW%2Bbon%2Bhomme%2Brichard%2B1970.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.warthunder.com%2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F468522-the-aim-9-sidewinder-missile-technology-history-and-performance%2F&tbnid=5AWQLc4T2qZhnM&vet=12ahUKEwjzoNWikPvrAhWQgFkKHYSKCPUQMyg6egQIARA2..i&docid=2QyPtsMfIOe0QM&w=791&h=490&q=AIM-9H&ved=2ahUKEwjzoNWikPvrAhWQgFkKHYSKCPUQMyg6egQIARA2

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-QK3OIBIJwAk%2FWGr591OexOI%2FAAAAAAAAJBg%2FyZdd0hN6Zu8AqaGg_-o3pCzAYIqGr6m7gCLcB%2Fs640%2FJAN%2B2.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fthecombatworkshop.blogspot.com%2F2016%2F11%2Fsidewinder-overview-part-ii-aim-9dgh.html&tbnid=8xB39fSvuU3IBM&vet=12ahUKEwjzoNWikPvrAhWQgFkKHYSKCPUQMygfegUIARDhAQ..i&docid=07R25UG0JZzAeM&w=564&h=375&q=AIM-9H&ved=2ahUKEwjzoNWikPvrAhWQgFkKHYSKCPUQMygfegUIARDhAQ

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12 hours ago, wm_cheng said:

Thanks so much @GW8345 - but the sidewinders that came with the kit doesn't have the forward fins so raked back.  Its much more triangular.  Is this the correct version for 1974?  The kit looks more like a AIM-9L/M

Sounds like the Sidewinder's that came with the kit are AIM-9L/M, the ones I linked are the correct Sidewinder (AIM-9G/H) for the time period you are doing.

 

If you are going to replace them with aftermarket Sidewinders look for the AIM-9D or AIM-9G/H, all three are externally identical and will work.

 

Eduard makes a nice set of AIM-9D's, they can be used as AIM-9G/H.

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48 minutes ago, wm_cheng said:

Argh, I'll look in my spares, I don't think I have any 9G/H - I'm not going to buy aftermarkets for this.  Darn, the 9L/M were 1977 onwards. 

 

Thanks @GW8345 (what a rabbits hole you've gotten me into)

You can always "fake it".

 

Try filing down the the wings (forward fins) on a spare missile to the approximate shape of the one's on the -9G/H and see how it looks, might be close enough to get by.

 

Or, cut the wings off and scratch build new ones.

 

It's 1/72 scale, sometimes "close enough" is all you need to make it work if you know what I mean.

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Yep, I've ruined the tailpipes trying to drill into the back of my Phoenix missiles to make that dark red cone - I thought I could just use a drill bit, but because its so small and it slightly wobbles and the plastic is so thin (I don't have a drill press, had to make due with a dremel), that I kind up chewed up the back a bit, gotta fill it back and just black it out unfortunately.

 

Found a set of AIM-9D in an old Hasegawa weapons set I had, but the forward fins aren't the right shape either, the back of the fins just cuts back at a 90 degree perpendicular angle to the body of the missile instead of raking back.  Its also molded a bit soft (70s mold) so I think still prefer the GWH kit Sidewinder, but I will cut the forward slope of the fin back at a more raked angle to match and leave the fin back as they are.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I finally finished it after way too long...  I did manage to saw apart my canopy to get inside and wipe out all the fogging.  I managed to repair the saw marks which chipped the paint all around the canopy - its not as good as it was before, but given the canopy is not fogged now, I guess the remedy was worth the damage in the end.  Its weird to have a glossy bird and sometimes looks a bit toy like, but I really tried to keep the weathering down because it was brand new when they delivered it to VF-1 in 1973/74.  I do love this colour scheme almost as much as the VF-84 Jolly Rogers.  All the ordinance is on, but unfortunately, I followed the instructions in decals and they were wrong with some of the placements of the stripes on the missiles (should have doubled checked with reference) - but its too late now. 

 

Thanks for all the help here!  I did shave down the AIM 9 front fins and I think its pretty convincing now (especially in 1/72 scale) and thanks for the missile nose cone tip, I brushed flat/matte clear coat over the tips and I rubbed a bit of weathering powder (graphite) to weather the tips a bit and it greyed a bit of the matte nose cone perfectly.

 

Overall a very detailed kit especially for 1/72 scale, but lots of mistakes in the instructions.  Its almost like I had to build one to find all the mistakes and then build a proper one after (but there's too many kits in my stash to rebuild something).

 

ACtC-3dAYiy3ybbxr8xhP7oV78VhryooUOydFS8bACtC-3cH5BFa9nJJAmSLS_VacwP4TjKWHA9yGFX8ACtC-3dm_WT0bUC_Hvu3lcYMObdiBlxWehnfDOo-ACtC-3f_YLTWir8oaEPdl92GeKRYTHfGSyEub7LMACtC-3eMA8ArFX5Qb77I0asqSAJ0Rq8D2nac-dCcACtC-3cKsRUfFh2fOs4YY2hB2MSQwu2u_2q3HvRpACtC-3fYwnzI0wEqM7uZzpR_XD6ouqUFUdOZDSqeACtC-3etwe8oM5-LGYQgxg3RJytH_tRWEZ12VnfNACtC-3dz2DreEHO96dH0YXEMB-JuA-UXgKhAfpK4ACtC-3fPk76IpOC_OlVt0b9CDukR4G0gd5R3TXJvACtC-3cL6w6iVBv21ZDszMOETZX2qFJ-eHmU5-gP

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Your right, its never in both places, but unfortunately I was following the instructions and didn't check the references (just one of many instruction mistakes) and its too late now to scrape one of them off after layers of future and clear coats.

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