jward Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Ok - need some help. Working on the paint scheme on a 1/48 Has. VF-102 OEF bird. All the pictures I've found of this squadron (from about 1998 to 2002) seem to be a much lighter color than Light Ghost Grey. Is it just the lighting of the pics? My eyes? Heavy fading while on cruise?? http://www.seaforces.org/usnair/VF/Fighter-Squadron-102.htm I'd love to hear thoughts / input. The scheme is very simple - and the decals call for overall Light Ghost Grey - but I'm having trouble matching the paint to the pics I'm finding. Thoughts? Thanks in advance. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted September 5, 2020 Share Posted September 5, 2020 Well I can't speak for what your eyes show you, but mine see FS36375 consistently in those Seaforces photos for the era in question. Several things to bear in mind: 1) Ambient lighting has a tremendous effect on the appearance of any object, most especially a neutral finish like gray. So for example the same plane at "golden hour" vs an overcast morning will look very different. 2) The light level (and adjustment, white balance, etc) in photos can make the same color seem dramatically darker or lighter than the "actual" color. 3) Largely because of lighting and other factors, the color you see on an airframe will look much different than the same color in a bottle, brush-out, or FS595 chip. In essence, scale effect will generally make the 1:1 large object seem lighter because of the amount of light reflected. 4) Your model paint may not accurately reflect the base FS595 standard, and almost certainly isn't adjusted for any of the above lighting effects. TL;DR version: Look at the photo on the Seaforces page that shows a close-up of the shoulder pylon with AIM-9 and AIM-54 loaded. The gray missiles are known to be FS36375. The airframe -particularly the portions in identical lighting - is a perfect match. Q.E.D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jward Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 Thanks for the reply. Excellent points all around. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 I agree with Quixote74. Question if I may (pardon my ignorance on this): when was the overall 36375 scheme in use, and was it only found on F-14s? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Which decal sheet are you using? I built a Diamondbacks jet a bit ago using the Fightertown sheet, and it calls for a two tone scheme of Dark Ghost on top and Light Ghost undersides. It also has non-standard Dark Ghost along the intakes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jward Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 I'm using the older CAM sheet that features VF-102 and VF-143 from OEF. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/cam-48098-48098-decals-f-14b-tomcat-oef-vf-102-vf-143--931139 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 6 hours ago, Darren Roberts said: Which decal sheet are you using? I built a Diamondbacks jet a bit ago using the Fightertown sheet, and it calls for a two tone scheme of Dark Ghost on top and Light Ghost undersides. It also has non-standard Dark Ghost along the intakes. I didn't consider a two-tone scheme when looking at the photos because I took the question as "is FS 36375 the predominant color?" and also because the scheme pretty clearly doesn't feature the usual darkest gray (35237). That said, I believe the photos do show Dark Ghost Gray 36320 on the upper surfaces and a portion of the spine, although the contrast is low and the demarcation on the spine seems to vary. The darker color is most apparent on the Seaforces images in the shot from above/behind with the yellow shirt in front of the aircraft, and in the closeups of the wing gloves. In the latter shots you can see there is a subtle but definite color change that falls just about in line with the center of the three-diamond badge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) I found a copy of the instructions online. It's actually a THREE tone scheme, but non-standard VF-102 instruction sheet Edited September 6, 2020 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jward Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 53 minutes ago, Darren Roberts said: I found a copy of the instructions online. It's actually a THREE tone scheme, but non-standard VF-102 instruction sheet Three tone . . . ???? I don't see that in any of the pics, but I trust the decal manufacturers did their homework. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 Looking at and matching TPS schemes is NOTHING like, say looking at and matching SEA Vietnam schemes. TPS has everything going against it; start with three very similar colors (especially the light and dark ghost), add weathering and salt spray/air beating the daylights out it like a sandblaster, then sunbleach the crud out of it. No wonder a 3 tone soon looks like overall single color! Best thing I've found is to paint it the standard 2 or 3, whichever the subject is, just regular. Then go back with lighter shades over it, panel by panel. I fade medium gray with dark ghost, dark ghost with light ghost, and light ghost with light gray. Eventually you get to the right point, hopefully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 31 minutes ago, Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy said: Looking at and matching TPS schemes is NOTHING like, say looking at and matching SEA Vietnam schemes. TPS has everything going against it; start with three very similar colors (especially the light and dark ghost), add weathering and salt spray/air beating the daylights out it like a sandblaster, then sunbleach the crud out of it. No wonder a 3 tone soon looks like overall single color! Best thing I've found is to paint it the standard 2 or 3, whichever the subject is, just regular. Then go back with lighter shades over it, panel by panel. I fade medium gray with dark ghost, dark ghost with light ghost, and light ghost with light gray. Eventually you get to the right point, hopefully. This right here. I do that with my weathering as well. I paint it nice and clean (no marbling or blackbasing or preshading) and then make it nice and dirty and add corrosion control. I finished the scheme in question not long ago with the Monogram kit. 1/48 Monogram VF-102 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sigtau Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, jward said: I'm using the older CAM sheet that features VF-102 and VF-143 from OEF. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/cam-48098-48098-decals-f-14b-tomcat-oef-vf-102-vf-143--931139 The original printing of that CAM sheet used the wrong color of red. It will look pink on the model. Get the fightertown sheet or find the special Hasegawa boxing that had the final VF-102 scheme markings. Back in the day, I used that sheet and actually over-sprayed all of the red portions with the correct red. I also called out the owner of CAM on their mistake and he denied it was the wrong color. Lastly, there's photos of the actual aircraft floating around the interwebs that clearly show that it's painted up in the 3-tone TPS scheme. EDIT: Looking again, it's not clear if Light/Dark Ghost gray were both used. But the the darker Medium Gray is definitely applied to the top surfaces. Edited September 6, 2020 by sigtau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 No idea why the decals you're using say overall 36375. They never painted the jets that way. And if you're doing a loviz jet, the decals color will not match. I did the Fightertown Decals instructions and they are correct. We got the info from guys in the squadron and studied a lot of photos to back it up. It's a modified 3 tone TPS. Markings are in 35237 overall, but the snake on the tail has 36081 and 36375 in it. If you're doing the CAG 102 jet then you have much more leeway on the color. Google or find VF-102 photos from the OEF cruise, and the 36320/35237 is pretty clear. Seeing the 36375 on the bottom is a bit tougher. The Navy never had a Tomcat overall 36375 scheme. There was a good period in the 80s and other squadrons used in the 90s and 2000's of overall 36320. But even with that the undersized mostly stayed 36375. You just never saw that part of the jet in pictures. 36320 will do a good job of fading to look like 36375 after time. At the end of the day, it's your model - paint it however you want and have fun. -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndreaH2O Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 13 hours ago, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: No idea why the decals you're using say overall 36375. They never painted the jets that way. Hasegawa research strikes back, I have the kit and they clearly indicate the model should be H308 overall... funny thing is, the box picture clearly shows the upper surfaces to be 35237. andrea Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 I am building that Hase kit right now too, and going with fightertown research. Hase instr. are wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jward Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 Thanks for all the feedback and great reference material. Proving once again that this site and the community are truly awesome! Thankfully I had only laid down a light base coat - which turned out to be the wrong color - so I basically started over with the correct reference materials and paint colors. I'll post a pic soon but the results are far better and seem to match reference photos. I'm also ordering the Fightertown VF-102 sheet as the CAM decals red is more like a really dark hot pink . . . (as was pointed out by Sigtau above). Andrew - I'm following your steps for weathering (and had done something really similar on a VF-31 line Tomcat and got fantastic results). Thanks for the explanation. Pics coming soon! Thanks again. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jward Posted September 10, 2020 Author Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 9/7/2020 at 2:45 PM, Brian P: Fightertown Decals said: No idea why the decals you're using say overall 36375. They never painted the jets that way. And if you're doing a loviz jet, the decals color will not match. I did the Fightertown Decals instructions and they are correct. We got the info from guys in the squadron and studied a lot of photos to back it up. It's a modified 3 tone TPS. Markings are in 35237 overall, but the snake on the tail has 36081 and 36375 in it. If you're doing the CAG 102 jet then you have much more leeway on the color. Google or find VF-102 photos from the OEF cruise, and the 36320/35237 is pretty clear. Seeing the 36375 on the bottom is a bit tougher. The Navy never had a Tomcat overall 36375 scheme. There was a good period in the 80s and other squadrons used in the 90s and 2000's of overall 36320. But even with that the undersized mostly stayed 36375. You just never saw that part of the jet in pictures. 36320 will do a good job of fading to look like 36375 after time. At the end of the day, it's your model - paint it however you want and have fun. -brian Okay . . . . on to plan "B" as it appears the VF-102 Fightertown decal sheet is long gone. Thought I had a source but no luck. Brian - thanks for the response and info. While I fully subscribe to the theory of "have fun" and do what makes you happy, I do want a really accurate Diamondback Tomcat that matches (as closely as possible) the OEF time period. So thanks again for the great info. Any chance that sheet is coming back again anytime soon?? Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted September 10, 2020 Share Posted September 10, 2020 This fightertown sheet has your high vis vf-102 jet on it. Superb sheet. I have it. http://www.fightertowndecals.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=59 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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