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Recommendations of a double action airbrush


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12 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Attach your hose to your compressor one end and put an adapter nut on the other to convert it to the same size as the Iwata (as the HP-CS will be your default airbrush that is used most often) then put a quick release socket on the end of the air line.
Then you need to get an adapter for your Paasche that converts the airbrush to the same size connector as the Iwata, its not a big thing, its just a nut really. and put a quick release connector on it.

Then put a quick release on your HP-CS.

That way with 2 adapter nuts and 2 QR connectors you have made all the ends the same and you can swap them about as often as you like without putting any stress on the air line.

Thanks for the suggestion! I’ll make sure to do that. That would make things a lot easier and less problematic than having to worry about stressing out the air line. 

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Look around for a bit... have a little patience, and you can save yourself like $40 on the HP-CS.    I got mine for $120 shipped, with an extra needle and a 6' hose.  I think I got it from an Amazon or eBay store. 

 

I've had mine for about two years now and it does everything I need it to do. From fine lines to broad application of primer and clear.  I'll say that I do see why a larger needle would be better for broad coverage.  As is, the HP-CS works well enough for this specific task, and I think the trade-off favoring fine detail work over broad coverage makes far more sense than a brush that is great at broad coverage but not good at fine detail.... or at least for building airplanes, anyway.  I could see why the opposite may be true if you're into building cars and trucks. 

 

Also, I know this is going into the red when it comes to budget, but, get yourself this thing. 

 "Iwata external MAC valve" 

https://www.amazon.com/Iwata-Medea-K-250-External-Valve/dp/B001V6VOZC

 

 

It attaches between the hose and brush and gives you much finer control over air pressure.   Very useful when dialing in the perfect thin line, great for compensating for your compressors broad-ish pressure sensor, and also a good way to quickly have the ability to  triple airflow for the purpose of blowing away dust and whatnot.   I decided that I didn't need one of these when I purchased the brush, and man, let me tell you, that was a stupid decision!   Best $20 I've spent on this hobby all year.  Do yourself a favor and get one!  

 

Since installing this, I bump my compressor pressure setting to like 15-20psi, and then do the final adjustment with the MAC valve.  Performance is much more consistent this way when compared to setting my compressor at 10-12psi (especially in those few minutes right before it clicks on to re-fill the tank). 

 

 

 

Edited by BaconRaygun
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If you haven't made up your side yet, you MUST take a look at the Gunze/GSI/Creos/Mr. Airbrush/Procon Boy (any one of those names) Platinum Series PS-270 or PS-289.  'lesthegringo' 2 posts above suggested the Gunze PS-770, which IS a spectacular airbrush, but well above your price range, at $225.00.  I have all 3 of these airbrushes, and the 770 is amazing, particularly at the price, BUT, the ones you want, at your price point, are the 270 or 289, $115/$120 at Spraygunners.  These brushes have 0.2mm and 0.3mm needles, respectively, but can be converted one to the other with a $50 conversion set.  You need to look at these.  They are made in Japan, just as the Iwata brushes are (not made in China), and the quality, in my opinion, matches Iwata, and may actually be constructed by the same outfit, don't know for sure.  In addition to the price for a fabulous dual action airbrush, you also get a built in MAC (Micro Air Control) valve.  Not a big deal, as you can get an external MAC valve that you could then use on any/all your airbrushes, but it is part of these airbrushes at the price.  I have found these airbrushes to be really, really nice tools.  

 

I don't have any interest in either Gunze or Spraygunner, I just have been super impressed with both companies.  I think you should take a look at the Spraygunner videos on Youtube, where they do comparisons between many airbrushes, they assemble and disassemble them, and basically give you a good feel for what these airbrushes are all about.  If you want to consider increasing your price to $150 or just above, that opens up a whole lot of additional options for you...please let us know if that's the case, as I can give you more thoughts with that in mind.  Hope this helps, rather than confuses.

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I second the Gunze airbrushes. I have the ps274 and it is a wonderful airbrush. I can do fine camo with it as well as spraying broad areas like car bodies. I bought mine on Spraygunner.com for around $110 shipped. I have been using it for almost two years now and haven't had a single problem with it. As with any airbrush, just make sure it is cleaned well after use and it will spray beautifully every time. I also have the ps770. And, honestly, I rarely ever use it because I can achieve almost the exact same results with the ps274.

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If the OP hasn't made his final decision on an airbrush purchase, I'd like to add an agreement in regarding having a Gunze PS770, but using another Gunze airbrush that does almost the same level of detail.  caulderyrn wrote that he uses the PS-274 which almost duplicates the 770's capabilities.  In my case, I think the PS-270, the 0.2mm needle airbrush, does a fantastic job at small detail painting.  So, I think a PS-270 would allow you to have a single airbrush that does multiple duties.  Just another point to consider if you've not made up your mind, yet.

Edited by Curt B
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I would like to clarify my last comment a little if I may. While the ps274 is a wonderful airbrush, I would classify the painting patterns as very fine. As for the ps770, I would classify the painting patterns as extremely fine. With the ps274, I can get lines as fine as a 0.5 mm pen. With the ps770, I can get pencil width and even finer with practice. But, when I said both perform basically the same, I should clarify that with patience and practice, you can achieve basically the same results between the two. Either way, both are fantastic airbrushes and each have their pros over the other. I hope this made sense. I have been known to ramble on from time to time.😊

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Giving input as someone who was/is also new to airbrushing, I bought the GSI Creos Mr. Airbrush Procon Boy PS-289 0.3mm Platinum.  I have had no issues with it and it is able to do what I need it to.  I use it for priming with Mr. Finishing Surfacer 1500 as well as Stynylrez and mostly spray Tamiya paint.  I clean with lacquer thinner and pull and wipe the needle at the end of spraying sessions.  I am still trying to master thinning ratios and pressure and spray distance combinations.  The airbrush never comes into the equation, which is a good thing.

 

Given airbrush design isn't rocket science, I think any of the quality, name brand choices will serve you well.

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On 10/1/2020 at 12:24 AM, ElectroSoldier said:

Considering the needle sizes the OP is used to I would say the .2 needle size is going to be quite a learning curve regarding thinning the paint dont you think?

I appreciate your opinion, but frankly, I think that needle size is not as large of an issue, overall, as many folks thin it is.  At least I've not found it to be so.  If the OP was uncertain about needle size, he could always get the identical Gunze airbrush, the 289, which has a 'more universal', if you will, needle size of 0.3mm.    

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On 10/1/2020 at 12:24 AM, ElectroSoldier said:

Considering the needle sizes the OP is used to I would say the .2 needle size is going to be quite a learning curve regarding thinning the paint dont you think?

While the H&S brushes are outside the desired price range, the needle size question prompts my response. I routinely use both .15 and .2mm nozzles with my Evolution, the smaller for detail and small areas, the larger for general coverage on 1/72 fighters and smaller (twin engine) bombers. I went to the H&S after 5-6 years using an Iwata HP-C I bought new in ‘98. The Iwata had a .4mm tip and the tiny nozzle required a special tool to remove for cleaning and would never be found again if it had ever slipped into the carpet monster’s grasp. The Iwata was a good brush, but for me it was a royal PITA to clean. 
 

Any time I’ve made an airbrush change there has been at least a minor learning curve (usually due to determining the best method of cleaning), but the only significant one for me was going from a single action Paasche H to a double action Badger 150. Needle size has never been an issue beyond realizing a .4mm tip is going to use paint faster than a .15mm tip.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Chuck1945 said:

While the H&S brushes are outside the desired price range, the needle size question prompts my response. I routinely use both .15 and .2mm nozzles with my Evolution, the smaller for detail and small areas, the larger for general coverage on 1/72 fighters and smaller (twin engine) bombers. I went to the H&S after 5-6 years using an Iwata HP-C I bought new in ‘98. The Iwata had a .4mm tip and the tiny nozzle required a special tool to remove for cleaning and would never be found again if it had ever slipped into the carpet monster’s grasp. The Iwata was a good brush, but for me it was a royal PITA to clean. 
 

Any time I’ve made an airbrush change there has been at least a minor learning curve (usually due to determining the best method of cleaning), but the only significant one for me was going from a single action Paasche H to a double action Badger 150. Needle size has never been an issue beyond realizing a .4mm tip is going to use paint faster than a .15mm tip.

 

 

 

I agree with everything Chuck had to say, including the cleaning aspect of an Iwata, the difference between a single action Paasche (which I have and is STILL my most often used airbrush) and a dual action brush, and the differences noted in volume of paint delivered with a larger versus smaller needle.  I am most interested in the original poster's status, to see which airbrush he has (or is going to) end up with.  I really hope that all these concepts we have been throwing his way have truly been a help, rather than a source of confusion for him.  

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12 hours ago, Curt B said:

I appreciate your opinion, but frankly, I think that needle size is not as large of an issue, overall, as many folks thin it is.  At least I've not found it to be so.  If the OP was uncertain about needle size, he could always get the identical Gunze airbrush, the 289, which has a 'more universal', if you will, needle size of 0.3mm.    

I sort of agree but not really.

The needle size isnt an issue but considering he already uses an airbrush with a larger needle size it will be an issue because what he can do on his old airbrush he wont be able to do on an airbrush with a .2mm needle.

Anybody who actually uses both large and small needles will know that. a size difference of say .15mm and .2mm wouldnt make any difference at all but a size difference of .75mm to .2mm would make a quite a difference.

I more thinking about the paints you can [b]easily[/b] use in one that wouldnt really work [b]very well[/b] in another. Thats not to say it wouldnt work, but it wouldnt work very well and there would be better options out there.

In that instance then the needle size does make a difference.

 

3 hours ago, Chuck1945 said:

While the H&S brushes are outside the desired price range, the needle size question prompts my response. I routinely use both .15 and .2mm nozzles with my Evolution, the smaller for detail and small areas, the larger for general coverage on 1/72 fighters and smaller (twin engine) bombers. I went to the H&S after 5-6 years using an Iwata HP-C I bought new in ‘98. The Iwata had a .4mm tip and the tiny nozzle required a special tool to remove for cleaning and would never be found again if it had ever slipped into the carpet monster’s grasp. The Iwata was a good brush, but for me it was a royal PITA to clean. 
 

Any time I’ve made an airbrush change there has been at least a minor learning curve (usually due to determining the best method of cleaning), but the only significant one for me was going from a single action Paasche H to a double action Badger 150. Needle size has never been an issue beyond realizing a .4mm tip is going to use paint faster than a .15mm tip.

 

 

Im like you, I use different airbrushes for different work.

CM-C+ for detail work, an HP-CH as a general workhorse, I like the HP-SBS mostly for inks these days though lacquers work well too especially with the larger paint cup. Some of mine date back well into the '80s.

I dont have a single problem cleaning any of them. Not one.

 

Ive used the H&S, its a good airbrush. In fact its a very good airbrush, but it wouldnt be just a case of changing the airbrush and carrying on working with it as you did before. The way you thin your paints would have to change too as a .75 needle would be much more forgiving than a .2mm one.

Thats all Im thinking about, not the needle size. In many ways the needle size doesnt make a difference but if you shift your point of view a little the needle size makes a large difference in what you can do with paint.

I like the needle of my GSI PS 290. its a .5mm needle with a fan pattern head which is great for painting the large flat surfaces of a 1:24 reefer trailer. The way I can mix the paint for that is different to how I have to mix my paint for my HP-SBS which is a .35mm needle I believe. and its not a lot to do with the needle size changing.

 

I just wouldnt like to recommend an expensive purchase knowing that the choice, while I think is good, would mean so many aspects of what he does regarding the paint choice and mixing would have to change in order to get the best use out of it.

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Okay, guys! I got my airbrush. It turned out to be the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS. I got the All Star version at a price of $150. I haven’t tried it yet, but am looking forward to trying it out soon. 
 

Does anyone have any recommendations for me if they ever shot Ammo of Mig or Model Masters acrylics through this airbrush and needle size (.35mm)? Have any of you shot Ammo of Mig paint through this without thinning it more? Am I going to need to get this to a thinner consistency than normal? Sorry for the extra questions. Just trying to figure out some possible issues with this airbrush to look out for. I’m hoping my Paasche H and Iwata Eclipse HP-CH will be the last airbrushes I need to purchase. 

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cool!  I ran my compressor for the first time today after getting the air lines configured with right connections.  Set up my Master spray booth near the window....

 

I need to get some thinners,cleaners, future...I will be ready!  

 

I can't wait to shoot flat black , silver and interior green soon  (at the full sprues)

 

 

 

 

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Although I have both the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and the Iwata Revolution HP-BR, I find myself using the Revolution HP-BR most of the time due to its solvent-proof needle packing.  The needle on the Eclipse HP-CS tends to get stuck in the airbrush the next day after spraying lacquer primer or lacquer paints even after I remove the needle to give it a good cleaning.  The Revolution HP-BR doesn't have this problem.  I have the Paasche Talon also but do not like the step at the needle's tip, so now I only use it for broad coverage.

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1 hour ago, RichardL said:

The needle on the Eclipse HP-CS tends to get stuck in the airbrush the next day after spraying lacquer primer or lacquer paints even after I remove the needle to give it a good cleaning. 

Good to know. I’ll keep an eye out for that. I don’t plan on shooting primer or lacquer based paint through this Eclipse, so hopefully I will not have this problem. Thank you for letting me know that. 

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9 hours ago, RichardL said:

Although I have both the Iwata Eclipse HP-CS and the Iwata Revolution HP-BR, I find myself using the Revolution HP-BR most of the time due to its solvent-proof needle packing.  The needle on the Eclipse HP-CS tends to get stuck in the airbrush the next day after spraying lacquer primer or lacquer paints even after I remove the needle to give it a good cleaning.  The Revolution HP-BR doesn't have this problem.  I have the Paasche Talon also but do not like the step at the needle's tip, so now I only use it for broad coverage.

 

8 hours ago, Historybuff said:

Good to know. I’ll keep an eye out for that. I don’t plan on shooting primer or lacquer based paint through this Eclipse, so hopefully I will not have this problem. Thank you for letting me know that. 

The needle packer is made of Teflon (Teflon is the brand name of PTFE, it can be listed as either Teflon or PTFE), the paint cant stick to it.
I take the needle out and give it a wipe over with a cloth (rag soaked in cellulose thinner or Tamiya airbrush cleaner or Mr Tool cleaner all work for me) once the needle is out I use an old school pipe cleaner, dip the end in cellulose thinner and push it up the nozzle end and give it a couple of turns, it comes up covered in paint, then the other end goes up. couple of pipe cleaners and it comes out paint free. takes less than a minute and I never have a sticky needle. 

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