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SH-60B - Folding tail/rotor, arming, and engine access?


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I'm working on building the new Kitty Hawk 1/35 SH-60B.  I'm starting off with the -B because I've always liked the SH-60 in the ASW role.  I know I'd like to build the aircraft with the rotors and wings folded.  Partly because I like to fold up naval birds, partly for space in the display case.  I also like the added color of arming it with a Mk. 48.  And the kit has a pretty nice OOB engine.  So, in trying to recon with my AMS, I'm trying to figure out what might be realistic and was hoping there might be some experts that could help with a couple questions:

 

1. When would arming take place in relation to folding/unfolding the tail and rotors.  On a CVN, I know virtually all aircraft are armed with the wings folded, but the SH-60 appears complicated to unfold, at least with the tail.  Would the bird be armed in the small hangar on the FFG/DDG/CG and rolled out folded up (seems unlikely given CVN practices)?  Or armed on the flight deck?  Possibly after unfolding the tail?  In other words, would it be reasonable to see a SH-60B with folded rotors and tail with a Mk. 48 torpedo on the pylon?

 

2. Is there any reasonable way an engine bay might be open with a torpedo on the pylon?  Again, I know in general armed aircraft and maintenance are mutually exclusive events.  But I've learned it's not a blanket statement.  Particularly on some aircraft there are some avionics bays that were commonly accessed and "minor".  I would expect that any actual engine maintenance on the SH-60B would be on unarmed aircraft, but not sure what else the bays might be open for that could be considered "minor".

 

I'm finding very few images on Google searches of folded up birds, and when I'm looking for pictures with the Mk. 48, they all seem to be airborne dropping on.  I appreciate any information from those more knowledgeable than myself.

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Think you would find it a challenge to get a -48 on a Bravo (the MK-48 is the heavyweight torp used by submarines).  MK-46 is the air-dropped lightweight torpedo.  MK-50 is also an option...but that option only started to happen in the later 1990's (I dropped both MK-46's and -50's off of Hawaii in the '96-'00 timeframe).  MK-46/50 are real close cousins and look almost the same.  

 

SH-60B's weren't stationed off of carriers during their time in the fleet, they were onboard cruisers/destroyers/frigates.  We had HHs-60's and the SH-60F onboard the carrier.  One time I saw a torp loaded on a Foxtrot, she was tail out, but blades folded getting made for a ready launch (along with our S-3's).  

 

Open panels don't for sure mean maintenance is in-progress.  I walked out to many of S-3's fully armed and ready with panels open....the brown shirts were nice and opened up the panels I needed to look into for preflight.  They would walk behind me closing them up after I walked around and made my checks.  Our carrier helos usually had panels open (depending on winds over the deck)...or they just climbed all over the thing opening and closing as they went.  Heavy winds would sometimes blow access doors open and off their hinges...so you had to be careful.  

 

HSL squadron in the hanger next door to us at NAF Atsugi would practice loads in the hanger with a folded bird.  Don't know small boy specifics on loading...but depending on [rough] sea state...uploading the torp in the hanger I would think would be preferred then roll the helo out to the pad...unfold and launch.  

 

Two aftermarket options for the MK-46 below:

AeroBonus 1:48 Mk.46 US Navy Torpedo - Resin Detail #480059

Metallic Details 1/48 Torpedo Loading Cart w/Mk.46 Set

 

Cheers

Collin

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16 minutes ago, Collin said:

Think you would find it a challenge to get a -48 on a Bravo (the MK-48 is the heavyweight torp used by submarines).  MK-46 is the air-dropped lightweight torpedo.  MK-50 is also an option...but that option only started to happen in the later 1990's (I dropped both MK-46's and -50's off of Hawaii in the '96-'00 timeframe).  MK-46/50 are real close cousins and look almost the same.  

 

SH-60B's weren't stationed off of carriers during their time in the fleet, they were onboard cruisers/destroyers/frigates.  We had HHs-60's and the SH-60F onboard the carrier.  One time I saw a torp loaded on a Foxtrot, she was tail out, but blades folded getting made for a ready launch (along with our S-3's).  

 

Open panels don't for sure mean maintenance is in-progress.  I walked out to many of S-3's fully armed and ready with panels open....the brown shirts were nice and opened up the panels I needed to look into for preflight.  They would walk behind me closing them up after I walked around and made my checks.  Our carrier helos usually had panels open (depending on winds over the deck)...or they just climbed all over the thing opening and closing as they went.  Heavy winds would sometimes blow access doors open and off their hinges...so you had to be careful.  

 

HSL squadron in the hanger next door to us at NAF Atsugi would practice loads in the hanger with a folded bird.  Don't know small boy specifics on loading...but depending on [rough] sea state...uploading the torp in the hanger I would think would be preferred then roll the helo out to the pad...unfold and launch.  

 

Two aftermarket options for the MK-46 below:

AeroBonus 1:48 Mk.46 US Navy Torpedo - Resin Detail #480059

Metallic Details 1/48 Torpedo Loading Cart w/Mk.46 Set

 

Cheers

Collin

 

Thank you for the reply.  My bad and apologies about the torpedo.  I am not an expert on torpedos...air dropped or submarine based.  And I didn't have the manual in front of me.  I suspect the kit has the Mk. 46.  

 

I know the -B's were off the smaller ships.  I have an -F for later.  Good information that you shared.  It's seeming like a folded bird with a torpedo and an open engine panel may not be completely out of the realm of possibilities.  I'll keep searching for pics.  It seems finding pics of the folder helo's is a little more challenging that I was planning.  

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13 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

Unfortunately, both of those options are 1/48 scale.  The OP is talking about the 1/35 kit.

Oh crud....my bad.  Think we may all be out of luck in 1/35.

 

I sure hope OOB the KH kit comes with a MK-46.  Penguin missile was also something we trained with the HSL folks on during joint war-at-sea exercises.  Wonder if the kit has that as well??

 

 

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Just now, Collin said:

...Penguin missile was also something we trained with the HSL folks on during joint war-at-sea exercises.  Wonder if the kit has that as well??

 

I can tell you later today or tomorrow.  The kit definitely has a torpedo. Not knowing much about much in the torpedo realm, I'm assuming it is a Mk. 46, but would have to check.  I don't think it has the penguin missile, but will need to double check to be sure.  

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There was one SH-60B squadron assigned to a carrier, it was HSL-51 the Warlords out of Atsugi air station. I was embarked for an ASW exercise and got to spend time with the pilots. The reason the Warlords deployed onboard was to put more ASW helicopters to sea on a routine basis.

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2 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

The stores in the kit consist of two Mk 46 torpedoes and two fuel tanks.  A M240 door gun (two actually, due to the duplicate sprue) for use on the SH-60F is also included.

 

They also have two M134/GAU2 miniguns and two .50cal/GAU18/GAU21 MGs left over from the MH/HH-60 kit F sprues as well.  Also, each KH naval H-60 has one GAU21 naval door gun mount on one of the new sprues as well.  

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7 hours ago, crlandrum said:

There was one SH-60B squadron assigned to a carrier, it was HSL-51 the Warlords out of Atsugi air station. I was embarked for an ASW exercise and got to spend time with the pilots. The reason the Warlords deployed onboard was to put more ASW helicopters to sea on a routine basis.

Interesting. 

 

What year(s) did that happen?  HSL-51 was in the hangar next door to us at Atsugi. They didn’t fly from CV-62/CV-63 when I was flying in the AirWing (except for an occasional deck hit to grab some gas or move pax’s).  We had HS-14 embarked as part of CVW-5 onboard. 

 

Maybe they did that post 2000-2001 after I left.

 

Cheers

Collin

 

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Collin,

 

2010. Things were heating up with the Chinese and so it was decided that HSL-51 would deploy on the the USS George Washington as well as the escorts. GW also had SH-60F and 60Ls. So pretty full deck load. Not sure when it started or if they are still doing it. HSL-51 had obtained red flight suits which greatly annoyed VFA-102 which felt they should have them. The alert pilots would wear the red flight suit and green web gear and so they were called Christmas Trees! Mostly I think they did it to annoy VFA-102. I was embarked as a data collector and observer for a 3-week ASW exercise in June. Hot and very humid. I got CODed off into Okinawa - my only cat launch (I'm a retired Surface Warfare Officer). 

 

Cheers,

Charles 

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22 minutes ago, crlandrum said:

Collin,

 

2010. Things were heating up with the Chinese and so it was decided that HSL-51 would deploy on the the USS George Washington as well as the escorts. GW also had SH-60F and 60Ls. So pretty full deck load. Not sure when it started or if they are still doing it. HSL-51 had obtained red flight suits which greatly annoyed VFA-102 which felt they should have them. The alert pilots would wear the red flight suit and green web gear and so they were called Christmas Trees! Mostly I think they did it to annoy VFA-102. I was embarked as a data collector and observer for a 3-week ASW exercise in June. Hot and very humid. I got CODed off into Okinawa - my only cat launch (I'm a retired Surface Warfare Officer). 

 

Cheers,

Charles 

2010...yeah...well after my time.  Bravo on the carrier deck was the lead in work to the HSM squadron configuration that is in place now with SH-60R's on CVN's as well as small ship detachments...more ASW in the Battle Group.  Doesn't fully close the gap left by the Viking...but I'm sure the ASW/ASuW Commander didn't mind it...but the AirWing did (Handler for sure).  

 

Technically you could do a Bravo in a RDK configuration (Rapid Deployment Kit- FLIR ball turret and Hellfire)....those were going through test at Pax in the early 2000's and went to the fleet shortly after that.  I sure HSL-51 Bravo's were fitted out that way as well for ASuW work.  Penguin was long gone by then. 

 

Cheers

Collin

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I was on the first SH-60B detachment to forward deploy to Atsugi from North Island in July of 1988 on USS Curts.

 

The fold sequence for the most part was not complicated since both the stab and tail were manually folded. The main rotor was another story, prone to issues. You had to use a GSE "Yellow Gear" box to fold the blades, since they had to be indexed to the correct position prior to fold. Take note that each blade had an assigned color...I think they were blue, yellow red and black, but my memory fails me on that.

 

You had to fold everything up to get it in the hangar. We always the RAST Rapid Securing Device (RSD)  to traverse it in and out of the hangar.

 

Take note that I have not located the RAST mechanism in the kit. It would adjacent to the sono launcher on the aircraft centerline. An easy scratchbuilding effort. The probe on the belly is also missing. In the stowed position, you would only see the red  "crenellated ring" on the bottom of the aircraft. I suggest you watch a youtube video of a landing to understand how it worked.

 

The RSD was a moveable dolly allowed you to land in heavy-ish seas and be able to secure the aircraft to the deck, and also allowed you to traverse the helicopter in and out of the hangar. Pilots had to qualify as an LSO to operate the RAST aboard ship. While not the same as a CVN, the LSO pay was certainly nice.

 

In the six years that I flew SH-60Bs, I never once participated in a Mk 46 load while underway. I did drop two of them...one on the SCORE Range and another at Barking Sands. and having the engine cowlings open with a torpedo loaded was not an issue. You could stand in the engine cowling.

 

Rich Dann

Edited by ltdann
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