MirageIV Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) Hi guys I'm looking for some help on the painting specifics of the early F-16N 'Ghost' camo applied to the Top Gun F-16Ns during the late eighties (early delivery jets circa 87'-88'). I found this thread here mentioning some things: However AFAIK plenty on that diagram is wrong like the gunship grey walkways and stencils. My questions are: 1- Did these F-16Ns actually have proper F-16 walkways? Some pictures I look at seem to show the walkways in the positive/negative camo like the stencils, but I'm not quite sure as sometimes they look invisible. Like this picture below. It looks to me just in front of the NAVY text there is walkway in the blue grey FS35237, then a bit of walkway going over the top of the fuselage behind the aft transparency in FS36251. 2- What is the FS colour of the leading edges of the vertical and horizontal stabilisers? It isn't the blue grey I don't think, close though. 3- What is the colour of the vertical fuselage part between the horizontal stab and trailing edge of the wings? It kinda looks like the same as question 2. 4- I know the insignia, NAVY text and rescue warning/data stencils around the canopy/forward fuselage are in the positive/negative camo of the scheme colours, does this then extend to all the stencils around the airframe? Such as the engine turbine warning band between the ventral fins, small data stencils on the airbrakes etc... 5- Does anybody have a better pic to read the canopy names of this jet, I'm building the Tamiya 1/48 F-16N but references are certainly limited on the internet for this scheme so any help on the specifics of it would be greatly appreciated! My plan is to paint most of it, with some stencils carefully matched from various F-16 sheets with maybe a bit of blending in to get as close as I can get. Thanks for looking and any help, David. edit the 2nd image on this page looks like there are again maybe some very fine walkways, https://theaviationgeekclub.com/heres-why-the-f-16n-had-been-the-finest-adversary-fighter-ever-flown-by-the-u-s-navy/ Edited November 10, 2020 by MirageIV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I have some references but I'm out of town this week. I will try to check them this weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Incaroad Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 That Second picture looks like it was taken at China Lake and I was there and have pictures. I don't know if they will scan with enough clarity, but it looks as though it did. The Pilots name is; Lt Daill Kraut. Picture is pretty small but here is a crop of the name and font. Cheers Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Incaroad Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MirageIV Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, habu2 said: I have some references but I'm out of town this week. I will try to check them this weekend. Ok Habu, thank you for helping and I look forward to it. 19 minutes ago, Incaroad said: That Second picture looks like it was taken at China Lake and I was there and have pictures. I don't know if they will scan with enough clarity, but it looks as though it did. The Pilots name is; Lt Daill Kraut. Picture is pretty small but here is a crop of the name and font. Cheers Larry Wow, I thought the canopy name would be a long shot, but thank you so much Larry for that one! Do you have any more photos of this jet at the show? The plan is to make model exactly how it looked then. The picture I posted was from an old slide I purchased off ebay so I was unsure of the date and location. Thanks so much guys! David edit..Because of these pictures I have another question. Are the canopies on these F-16Ns simply just tinted or do they have the Indium Tin Oxide 'Gold type' tinting like other Block 30 F-16s of the time period? To me, it looks like they had the gold type tint but it doesn't seem as strong as say USAFE Block 30 Vipers of the period. Edited November 11, 2020 by MirageIV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Quixote74 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Some partial answers, FWIW: 1) & 4) Can't verify color specs but they definitely wore walkways and other contemporary stenciling, in what seem to be contrasting colors of the base camo. This shot has a pretty clear view of the walkways: https://theaviationgeekclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/F-16N.jpg 2) & 3) Leading edges of the vertical (and I believe also horizontal) stabilizer were FS36270. Standard component delivered in the USAF Hill Gray color. Same applies for the vertical surface between the wing trailing and horizontal tail leading edges. I believe this was also true for the wingtip rails. Re: canopies, my understanding is these would all have the same coating - differences in appearance are usually down to ambient lighting and viewing angles, not different film/finish on the bubbles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 According to the sources I've seen, the leading edge color should be 35189. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 38 minutes ago, Camus272 said: According to the sources I've seen, the leading edge color should be 35189. Isn't the leading edge tape rather than paint? If so, is it the same color on all planes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 ARC member Jim Barr works/worked at GD and had access to the official paint specifications for all F-16s. Jim posted the official F-16N delivery scheme in this thread, it also shows the wing walk lines. The post is full of good info: Also, the Superbase book on Key West has 15-20 pages of excellent color photos of the early F-16Ns. Hasegawa did these markings in their 1/48 and 1/72 kits but the color call-outs are in Gunze Sanyo paint colors, not FS #s Comparing GD lithos (I have a bunch) the initial Greek (HAF) jets look to use the same colors and pattern as the F-16N delivery scheme, but without the distinct leading edge color. While the leading edges do look different I don’t believe it is “speed tape”. If it was I would think the wing leading edges would have received the same treatment, but obviously they didn’t. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 From the linked thread: http://imagizer.imageshack.com/a/img22/6749/148thf16nusnavyblock302.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 19 minutes ago, habu2 said: While the leading edges do look different I don’t believe it is “speed tape”. If it was I would think the wing leading edges would have received the same treatment, but obviously they didn’t. Well, when I googled F-16 Leading Edge I found this link: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/6267595/luke-changes-f-16-paint-scheme-single-color The caption to the first photo reads, "Senior Airman Jason Victor, 56th Equipment Maintenance Squadron Low Observable Aircraft Structural Maintenance journeyman, removes leading edge tape on the front of an F-16D Fighting Falcon’s wing June 22, 2020, at Luke Air Force Base, Ariz. Replacing leading edge tape on an F-16 takes two days because of the strong bond it creates along the aircraft’s surface." The photo shows him working on the wing. I don't know if that implies that the tail leading edges received the same or different treatment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 Speed tape is commonly applied to the leading edges of the wings, horizontal stabs and vertical stab. I don’t know the exact dimensions but it’s not nearly as wide as the color difference shown in the F-16N photos. At most it is maybe 4” wide, so when applied to the leading edge it extends only ~2” back. Also, speed tape is not blue, it turns yellow/brown with age. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MirageIV Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 Thanks for all the great info and input guys, really helping! Fellow member 'Incaroad' sent me some great pics of the jets in question, soon after delivery still in fresh colours in 88' and some close up of various areas. They have answered all my questions and I can say some things with certainty if it helps anyone else: 1- They wore walkways in the contrasting camo colours. Over the blue grey is the aggressor grey. Over the light sea grey is the blue grey. The refuelling stencil is in the blue grey. I cannot quite tell which goes over the aggressor grey but if following the rest is should be the light sea grey. There also appears to be none of the typical 'walkway' 'no step' stencils surrounding the walkways but this could be because they are so low contrast and small I cannot see them. 2- All the stencils are also in the base camo colours. Habu, the scheme diagram you mentioned posted by Jim Barr is what I initially started working with but the Gunship grey marking callouts didn't look correct to what I was seeing. It may have been the initial plan but as Brian from Fightertown mentioned in that thread, it isn't right for actual delivery jets, at least for numbers '46' and '47' I've got photos of. All the stencils such as the 'Armament' panel, band between the ventral fins, any boarders of vent/exhaust doors, cockpit stencils are all in the contrasting camo colours. Well simply all the typical F-16 stencils usually either in hi-vis orange or low-vis grey are in the contrasting camo colours. It looks to be only the Top Gun badge and the tail number are not in these colours. The insignia and NAVY text are in the blue grey. 3- The colour of the vertical fuselage sides between the horizontal stab and trailing wing edge look to be in fs36270. After some digging I have come across someone mentioning it could be Dark Gull grey abrasive resistant paint, it certainly looks a slightly different shade to the base camo colours and vertical/horizontal leading edges. However other jets it seems to be in the main camo colours! 4- The colour of the leading edges of the fin and horizontal stabs still is a bit hard to decipher. Some pics it looks like fs36270, others way more blue like 'Camus272' mentions in this thread, fs35189. To me, it doesn't look like a tape but I could be wrong, quite a large surface to apply tape to. Also in some photos of more weathered aircraft it appears to show typical paint weathering so I don't think it is tape. I think I will just mix maybe fs36270 and the blue grey to match photos. 5- The canopy most certainly has the Indium Tin Oxide coating giving it the gold appearance in certain lighting. Habu--I'll look to get the Key West book as references are certainly limited on these early jets. Thanks guys again for all the input! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seawinder Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I was totally off base about the tape, having not looked carefully at the photos above. Sorry for any confusion I caused. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 12 hours ago, MirageIV said: Habu--I'll look to get the Key West book as references are certainly limited on these early jets. Superbase 24 - Key West George Hall Osprey Publishing 1991 ISBN 1-85532-174-2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Ive got the full factory drawings for this scheme. I could take a pic and send them to your email if you like...i think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MirageIV Posted November 13, 2020 Author Share Posted November 13, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, habu2 said: Superbase 24 - Key West George Hall Osprey Publishing 1991 ISBN 1-85532-174-2 Thanks Habu! 9 hours ago, BillS said: Ive got the full factory drawings for this scheme. I could take a pic and send them to your email if you like...i think. Hi Bill, sure, I've tried to send you a message but apparently I cannot? Not sure if messages are blocked? Edited November 13, 2020 by MirageIV Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zaggy Posted February 7, 2021 Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) There's about 70 or so threads on various SQN's and BuNo's and Camo's on the FB Adversary and Aggressor Group - link to the F-16N thread: USN F-16 Adversaries - Part 2. F-16N-30's https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1822989047712398 Edited February 7, 2021 by Zaggy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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