JakubJakepilot Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Was looking at my pics again and found out that HMH-462 "61" was definetly not BuNo. 157931 which had broken tail, after inspecting the picture it is clear it is 156xxx (I guess 156968 ?) copyright Gary Schroer And second pic is from HMH-464, carrying another crashed helo, BUT, any idea which one ? The inscription says "Ronald Clemmer_crashed at soccer stadium". Could this one be BuNo. 161393/YJ/20 from HMH-465 ? As the other known damaged CH-53E burnt out on the ground .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Looking at the damage pattern, I'd suggest it's the same aircraft in both photos... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Damn !!! Now you got me !!! I really did not notice the smaller doghouse there !!!! Silly me ..... must be Friday ..... BIG thanks :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Jakub, It is the same aircraft. CH-53D YF-61. It was performing a post maintenance engine test and experienced an engine failure and had a "hard landing" event. the crew chief was Sgt Fong, out NATOPS instructor in HMH-462. I believe it had to get externaled back to the C-5 loading area to return to the states. I will confirm that story ASAP. r/Gunny Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Wow, thanks for the info Dan ! Btw, I was trying to make some page showing different main/tail rotor and blades configuration with dimensions etc. You can find it HERE And another question rises: Are the CH-53E composite main rotor blades same (except probably the mount and the "tube" which makes bigger diameter) as mounted on MH-53J/M and updated German/Israeli 2-engine H-53s ? Are they same in lenght, chord, shape ? I was comparing Revell CH-53G and Academy CH-53E composite blades and they are not exactly the same, I will post the picture later today. Just curious... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 12 hours ago, JakubJakepilot said: Wow, thanks for the info Dan ! Btw, I was trying to make some page showing different main/tail rotor and blades configuration with dimensions etc. You can find it HERE And another question rises: Are the CH-53E composite main rotor blades same (except probably the mount and the "tube" which makes bigger diameter) as mounted on MH-53J/M and updated German/Israeli 2-engine H-53s ? Are they same in lenght, chord, shape ? I was comparing Revell CH-53G and Academy CH-53E composite blades and they are not exactly the same, I will post the picture later today. Just curious... Jakub, The CH-53G/GS, MH-53J/M all have the CH-53D Tail Rotor Hub assembly. They have the original tail blades as delivered back in the 1960's. The CH-53E and MH-53E uses a much larger Tail Gear Box and much larger Tail Rotor Hub, the tail blades ARE NOT interchangeable from a "Straight Tail" H-53 and a "Bent Tail" C/MH-53E or CH-53K. The first two pictures are of CH-53A/D tail blades. You can get a size appreciation by the two Marines carrying the blades into the shop. The last picture is of a CH-53E Block Upgrade Composite Tail Rotor Hub. To give you an idea on how big those tail bolts are the torque on them is 750 - 850 foot pounds!! the torque wrench is 4 1/2 feet long. Hope this helps. Gunny Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Hi Dan, thanks. I will try to summarize the main and tail rotors. main rotor CH-53D - old metal with square root/tip MH-53J/CH-53G/GS - new composite with tapered root/tip CH/MH-53E/S-80 - composite with tapered root/tip tail rotor CH-53D/MH-53J/CH-53G/GS - old metal with square root/tip CH-53E - old metal with square root/tip (NOT same as for CH-53D) CH/MH-53E/S-80 - composite with tapered root/tip So, my questions are: Do we know the dimensions for the metal tail rotor blade for CH-53E ? the overall diameter is 20' (6096mm) but we dont know the dimensions of each blade Do we know if the composite blade of main rotor for MH-53J is same as for CH-53E ? from root to tip ? I am not mentioning the "arm" attaching the blade to the rotor hub, I know the arm is longer on Echo. And btw, I have a Powerpoint presentation of test of CH-53D with composite main rotor blades. Did they just use the Echo blades and attached them to the Delta "arms" ? The powerpoint name is "FLIGHT TEST OF CH-53D HELICOPTER WITH IMPROVED ROTOR BLADES AND GE-T64-416 ENGINES" Thanks ! I will post the pictures of metal/composite main rotor blades from Revell and Academy 1:48 kits shortly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 23, 2022 Author Share Posted February 23, 2022 Jakub, Send me the powerpoint. I will look it over and tell you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 While we're on the subject of main rotor blades, did you have any thoughts on my post from a couple of pages back, Dan? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Here is a comparison of 1:48 H-53 main rotors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Jakub, Remember the blades represented by the Revell CH-53G composite and the Academy CH-53E composite are the exact same blade. However the CH-53E uses "Blade Extenders" on those blades when they are installed on a CH-53E Main Rotor Head (MRH). The USAF TH-53A, MH-53J/M PAVE LOW III did not need the extenders. Also, the CH-53G/GS does not need the extenders. The composite blades were originally designed to used on the CH-53D, HH-53C, MH-53J, CH-53G/GS. They were "adapted" for use on the CH-53E during flight tests at Sikorsky Aircraft. With the extenders fitted during flight test, these became the configuration delivered to the USN/USMC for all of their H-53E aircraft. The Marine Corps never "retrofitted" our fleet of CH-53D's with the composite blades as they were designed for. We kept the "metal" blades in service as we had many of them, and at the time Sikorsky was still manufacturing them new. As the war in Afghanistan grew longer and longer, the CH-53D needed improvements to operate in high altitudes, and high temperatures. Hence the PowerPoint you found on the CH-53D performance enhancement program. The pictures below show the YCH-53E with the early "Whale-Tail" design and you can clearly see the blade extenders installed for the composite blades. The German CH-53G/GS picture you can see the composite blade on the rotorhead with out the extenders. Hope this helps. Gunny Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Great ! So this is solved. The only thing missing now is dimensions for metal tail rotor blades for CH-53E, so I can update my page 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 On 2/23/2022 at 4:45 PM, andyf117 said: While we're on the subject of main rotor blades, did you have any thoughts on my post from a couple of pages back, Dan? Andy, I have watched that video at least 4 times, and you are 100% correct that 53 has the composite blades installed. The testing could have taken place both with a unit out of Eglin AFB, as well as Hickam. The USAF has had fleet units test upgrades via the fleet in an "Operational Test" environment, vice purely a "Developmental Test" environment. I have seen them do this, conduct DT/OT at the same time. The Satellite Recovery operations were a very distinctive mission and required some pretty hefty power requirements on the airframe. I.E. the mission specific profiles the aircraft had to fly, saw some interesting out of ground effect hover requirements.....so, they very well could have had an aircraft with the composite blades installed. I would say I am off to the archives to see if I can find a plane aboard Hickam where we can differentia the old blades to the new....sounds like fun!! r/Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted February 28, 2022 Author Share Posted February 28, 2022 Andy, The USAF 6593rd and 6594th were designated as Test Squadrons for various T/M/S aircraft. Namely the C-130 and HH-53B/C. So it goes to reason that in the 80's they could have had one-two aircraft with the composite blades installed. Like the one we saw in the video. There is a FaceBook group dedicated to Operation Coronado, and the "Falling Star" Mission. The 6594th Falling Star FB Page. I went through it in hopes of finding one, just one picture of our elusive bird, namely the one in the video. that video is posted there with a lot of the former crew members commenting on it. I asked permission to join so I could post a query to those crew members to solve our little fun mystery. But, in reading the USAF history and PAO page, the Squadron lineage of the 6593rd and 6594th I can easily see the Wright Patterson or which ever cognitive engineering group, I assume it was Wright Pat in the 80's and not Kirtland or Hill AFB, to have them fly these blades on their aircraft with the help of a Sikorsky Tech Rep or tiger team....who wouldn't want to go to Hawaii for some TDY and engineering support....LOL Still looking for the "photographic" proof to my claims. r/Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted March 1, 2022 Share Posted March 1, 2022 Thanks for the above replies, Dan - only just seen them whilst taking a quick break from events elsewhere... ....my wife has family both escaping from and still in Kharkiv - plus numerous friends there and in Kyiv too... It will be very interesting to see if anyone in the FB group responds to your queries, to confirm or de-bunk our theories... ....I'll be watching this space as and when circumstances permit... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted March 1, 2022 Author Share Posted March 1, 2022 Andy, My absolute prayers and good wishes for anyone you know enduring this current state of affairs. I hope your wife hears good news as to the safety of her loved ones. My best, Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Hi, the only thing I am missing now is dimensions for the CH-53E METAL tail rotor blades. Anyone can help ? Thanks ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted March 8, 2022 Author Share Posted March 8, 2022 Jakub, I can get those dimensions for you today. Stand by. Gy Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Stumbled across this today - a 4th of July 1976 shot of a 'white top' CH-53, and NOT a CH-124A as captioned! https://www.airliners.net/photo/USA-Marines/Sikorsky-UAC-CH-124A-Sea-King-S-61B/6603857/L Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 Andy, Great picture, I have never seen that one before. Nice shot of the top of the rotorhead as well. All gloss white beanie ring!! I love it. I am doing a 1/48th scale model of this aircraft this year, so a great reference photo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) What's really interesting is that the 'white top' H-53 photo I enquired about a while ago with the Sikorsky archives was, they said, dated March 1972: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/306254-vh-53d-help-solved/&do=findComment&comment=2939663 Whereas this newly-discovered one is apparently from 1976 - however, the caption is not only incorrect in stating it's a CH-124A, but also in saying that it shows President Ford landing in it, when other photos from that date clearly show he arrived aboard by 'standard' VH-3A or D (1976 was when the D entered service)... Edited March 24, 2022 by andyf117 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Andy, Not sure how you are getting to 1976 when the CH-53D entered service? Do you mean with HMX-1? As a presidential support aircraft? As the Marines CH-53D entered service in 1970. 156654-156677 Sikorsky Contract #65158 - #65181 September 1970 deliveries. r/Gunny Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Gunny, I think Andy meant VH-3D. K/r, Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 Ahh, yes. Ok my mistake there, disregard Andy!! 🤪 Gunny Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 8:18 PM, YF65_CH53E said: Jakub, I can get those dimensions for you today. Stand by. Gy Dan Still waiting for those dimensions ;-) Jakub Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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