fasteagle12 Posted December 5, 2022 Share Posted December 5, 2022 18 hours ago, fasteagle12 said: Thanks for the run-down. I saw the kit and was wondering what was in the box. I may have to spring for one. Just ordered this kit.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 I found these photos of early Pave Low IIIs on the web. All seem to be converted from HH-53Cs and still retain the C model tanks. I'd guess that these photos depict the Pave Low around the time they participated in the training exercises in support of Op. Honey Badger. If anyone has any further photos of early Pave Lows with the C model tanks, I'd love to see them. Also does anyone have a list of the first ten or so airframes converted into Pave Low configuration. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JakubJakepilot Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 Hi, I did the following table for myself, but I hope it will be useful for everybody. Feel free to update/correct it. TABLE Jakub Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Loach Driver said: I found these photos of early Pave Low IIIs on the web. All seem to be converted from HH-53Cs and still retain the C model tanks. I'd guess that these photos depict the Pave Low around the time they participated in the training exercises in support of Op. Honey Badger. If anyone has any further photos of early Pave Lows with the C model tanks, I'd love to see them. Also does anyone have a list of the first ten or so airframes converted into Pave Low configuration. Thanks. I actually posted a few HH-53H photos - including your middle one above - in @KursadA's thread, a couple of which feature the early tanks: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/319307-cd48206-148-usaf-hh-53mh-53/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-3063028 There's also this frontal aspect of your top pic's line-up: The original eight HH-53H conversions were: 69-5790, 69-5791, 73-1647, 73-1648. 73-1649, 73-1650, 73-1651, 73-1652 - two CH-53C airframes were later converted as attrition replacements. Immediate identifying features of the HH-53H are the old-style metal main rotor blades with square-cut roots, and small RWR sensors on the nose and tail areas. Fuel tank sizes varied - take a look at the photos over in the Caracal thread, and you'll see larger tanks fitted in a couple of them... Edited December 6, 2022 by andyf117 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeavphoto Posted December 6, 2022 Share Posted December 6, 2022 1 hour ago, JakubJakepilot said: Hi, I did the following table for myself, but I hope it will be useful for everybody. Feel free to update/correct it. TABLE Jakub Jakub, I will have to review your list against my complete H-53 production list that a mutual Marine friend, of Gunny Hammer and I, who works for Sikorsky helped put together and confirm most of the data. The production list includes those made in Germany, etc... On another note, I am reviewing a rather large stack of photos I borrowed from another Marine friend who was an H-53 crewchief during Operations End Sweep and Frequent Wind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, andyf117 said: I actually posted a few HH-53H photos - including your middle one above - in @KursadA's thread, a couple of which feature the early tanks: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/319307-cd48206-148-usaf-hh-53mh-53/page/2/&tab=comments#comment-3063028 There's also this frontal aspect of your top pic's line-up: The original eight HH-53H conversions were: 69-5790, 69-5791, 73-1647, 73-1648. 73-1649, 73-1650, 73-1651, 73-1652 - two CH-53C airframes were later converted as attrition replacements. Immediate identifying features of the HH-53H are the old-style metal main rotor blades with square-cut roots, and small RWR sensors on the nose and tail areas. Fuel tank sizes varied - take a look at the photos over in the Caracal thread, and you'll see larger tanks fitted in a couple of them... Thanks for the info and tip-off re other photos. The early Pave Lows are interesting, in particular 14433, the Black Knight. LD. Edited December 7, 2022 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Loach Driver said: Thanks for the info and tip-off re other photos. The early Pave Lows are interesting, in particular 14433, the Black Knight. 66-14433 was designated YHH-53H when it became the first Pave Low conversion; I've only ever seen three shots of it in the 'Black Knight' finish - the one you posted previously, a similar shot taken after conversion, and this one: Wolfpak Decals included 14433 on sheet 72-12 - however, what should have been the 'Black Knight' logo was instead represented by a numeral '1', and only one was supplied anyway, when it was carried on both sides; the prominent aircraft data block was also not provided: Edited December 7, 2022 by andyf117 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 7, 2022 Share Posted December 7, 2022 (edited) Thanks for those additional photos! I noticed the discrepancy in the Wolfpak decal sheet. I was looking for the "Black Knight" decal on the sheet but couldn't find it. Now I know why. The aircraft data block is actually quite prominent too. The Black Night is an interesting member of the Pave Low family and one that would make an interesting model. It seems to have some kind of square fairing under the belly in place of the usual round fairing found on the HH-53B/C. Maybe Caracal Decals will include the Black Knight on their 1/72 scale sheet. Here are a few more early Pave Lows (with bigger tanks) from October 1982. LD. Edited December 7, 2022 by Loach Driver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Loach Driver said: It seems to have some kind of square fairing under the belly in place of the usual round fairing found on the HH-53B/C. If you look again at the HH-53Hs, you'll notice that they all have that 'box' underneath - it was retained on the subsequent MH-53H, but removed from the J. Couple of MH-53H shots showing it: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 8, 2022 Share Posted December 8, 2022 (edited) Thanks for those additional photos. The configurations for Pave Low (I) and Pave Low III are known, but does anyone have any info on what configuration 14433 flew in for the Pave Low II test and what avionics were the focus of that portion of the Pave Low development? It still wore its SEA paint scheme for the initial Pave Low (Terrain Following Radar) test and was all black by the time of its Pave Low III (Initial Entry into Service Configuration) test program. 👍 I found these images in a youtube video dedicated to the Pave Low. The LLTV screen is visible in this shot of the cockpit. I don't know if the shroud on the upper instrument panel is standard or something specific to the Pave Low III IP. I am not sure if the blade antenna on the forward underside of the refuelling probe is a piece of test equipment or is a standard piece of equipment. The Black Knight with the people behind the program (presumably). Of note is the lack of the "Black Knight" decal behind the pilot's window. LD. Edited December 8, 2022 by Loach Driver Added three photos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 Well, if we're talking videos, the beginning and end of this one features 14433 at Kirtland AFB - "a unique, one-of-a-kind helicopter" with a '"special paint job": Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 9, 2022 Share Posted December 9, 2022 (edited) Wow! Another great find! Looks like it is close to its final early-service configuration. It has the nose landing light on the Pave Low nose fairing instead of up on the nose near the lower windshield. It's hard to tell but it looks like the paint scheme is the overall black scheme over-painted with a pale sand or pale stone colour. I think it might just be a two-colour paint scheme. It also looks like there is a gun mounted on the rear ramp. Given the comments of the pilot in the video, this footage dates from 1979 possibly. Another cool Pave Low paint scheme. 👍 Edit: At 4;50 into the video, there is a portion of the video that shows the overall scheme, although the scene has been shot at night or dubbed to give the impression of being shot at night. This segment gives a general impression of the pattern of the camouflage scheme. I still think it is a two-tone scheme of black and either pale stone or maybe light grey. The video has probably been copied from a dated piece of film reel so the colour could be slightly off. Maybe a known shade like the red on the fire extinguisher or the green of the pilot's flight suit might indicate how "off" the colouring in the film is. Edit; It has confirmed to me by a knowledgeable source that the paint scheme in the video is dark grey and light grey. LD. Edited December 12, 2022 by Loach Driver Update re colour scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Ta-da! Found in a thread at Britmodeller - a photo of a photo in a Koku Fan magazine: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 WOW!! Thats digging right there!!!! Now that would be a COOL PAVELOW paint job Thanks Andy!! BZ!! Gy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 11 hours ago, YF65_CH53E said: WOW!! Thats digging right there!!!! Now that would be a COOL PAVELOW paint job Thanks Andy!! BZ!! Gy Perhaps it is a scheme for inclusion on a future Caracal decal sheet! LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 The crew wearing PVS-5 NVGs, really brings me back. The first set I learned on, before the the ANVIS-6 came out. So much Pavelow history here. I'm enjoying it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YF65_CH53E Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 5 hours ago, ST0RM said: The crew wearing PVS-5 NVGs, really brings me back. The first set I learned on, before the the ANVIS-6 came out. So much Pavelow history here. I'm enjoying it. Ahhhh....full face PVS-5's and the scuba weight on the back of my helmet....felt like I was back in High School football with how my neck hurt after a flight!. Then PVS-5 "cut-aways".....just as bad..but, the ANVIS-6's were the bomb when they came on the scene. Lightweight, good image intensification, look under capability, as a crew chief that was key, I could do things in the back of the cabin with out having to completely de-configure my helmet. Great stuff, here and pictures I have never seen, or not seen in a very long time! Thanks all!! Gunny Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 14 hours ago, Loach Driver said: Perhaps it is a scheme for inclusion on a future Caracal decal sheet! LD. Hes just done one for the H-53. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 23 hours ago, Loach Driver said: Perhaps it is a scheme for inclusion on a future Caracal decal sheet! LD. 9 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said: Hes just done one for the H-53. @KursadA hasn't yet released the 1/72 versions of his two H-53 sheets - he's already incorporating something which I made him aware of into the Navy/Marine one, along with an option that there wasn't room for in 1/48; maybe, if the scaling-down work's not yet completed on the Air Force one, he might be persuaded to add this option for 14433, but just one photo showing only one side probably isn't enough - apart from the nose area, there's no reference for the camouflage pattern for the starboard side apart from a brief moment of extremely dark footage in the video... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 On 12/15/2022 at 11:23 AM, andyf117 said: @KursadA hasn't yet released the 1/72 versions of his two H-53 sheets - he's already incorporating something which I made him aware of into the Navy/Marine one, along with an option that there wasn't room for in 1/48; maybe, if the scaling-down work's not yet completed on the Air Force one, he might be persuaded to add this option for 14433, but just one photo showing only one side probably isn't enough - apart from the nose area, there's no reference for the camouflage pattern for the starboard side apart from a brief moment of extremely dark footage in the video... Hard to see him doing a sheet without any complete refrences for it. I mean we dont know what if anything was on the other side of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Loach Driver Posted December 24, 2022 Share Posted December 24, 2022 On 12/16/2022 at 10:12 PM, ElectroSoldier said: Hard to see him doing a sheet without any complete refrences for it. I mean we dont know what if anything was on the other side of it. I might have a suitable reference. Working on getting permission to share the info I have with KursadA. LD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Mignard Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Here's some photos of 433 when she first arrived at the 1550 ATTW at Kirtland AFB. I've got some color photos that I'll have to search for and will then post. Mig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob Mignard Posted January 17, 2023 Share Posted January 17, 2023 Here are the color photos. I took all of these photos at Kirtland AFB, NM in May, 1978 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) Why has the H-53 family been so ignored by the aftermarket industry? The bracing bars of the B model have never been done, even recently with Reskit they only touched on details like rotors. Making an MH-53J is almost impossible. I recently ordered a couple of MH-53J conversions from LSM for some kits Ive owned for nearly a decade... Its crazy. I mean it was the wests premier special forces helicopter for as long as I can remember, even its replacement isnt as interesting as the Super Jolly Green Giant and Pave Low III E. Edited January 18, 2023 by ElectroSoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
andyf117 Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 16 hours ago, Rob Mignard said: Here's some photos of 433 when she first arrived at the 1550 ATTW at Kirtland AFB. I've got some color photos that I'll have to search for and will then post. Mig 15 hours ago, Rob Mignard said: Here are the color photos. I took all of these photos at Kirtland AFB, NM in May, 1978 Wow! Just, Wow! Hours and hours of searching online, and I only managed to find a very dark video, and a photo of a magazine photo... ....and then someone comes along who just happens to have basically a complete walkaround revealing everything we needed to know! Deserves a HUGE 'Thank you!'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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