f5guy Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 12 hours ago, jenshb said: Are the legs coming down from the wing really that weak? The critical point would be the bogie and the axles to the wheels. Unless the plastic is like a sponge or so soft or thin it can't hold it's shape, then surely it shouldn't be necessary to scratchbuild the entire undercarriage? I think that the strut coming down from the wing would probably be okay, definitely so if it was reinforced with a brass rod as you mentioned. However, I think that the spot where the axle bogey connects to the main strut is going to be the problem. The plastic is fairly soft, while the plastic of the kits parts is rather thick and heavy, and I just don't see those gear legs holding up for long under the weight. I would welcome a set of brass gear legs from another manufacturer. I only mentioned SAC, as to my mind, they're the most likely candidate to produce such a set. If I'm proven wrong and someone else does them, that would be great too! Regards, Fred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 22, 2021 Author Share Posted January 22, 2021 @f5guy and @jenshb I'll be your guinea pig - I'll build mine with the kit parts and we'll see how the plastic holds up. In time there may be some metal legs released and I can always replace he gear in due course if needed. Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f5guy Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 1/22/2021 at 5:07 AM, TommyP said: @f5guy and @jenshb I'll be your guinea pig - I'll build mine with the kit parts and we'll see how the plastic holds up. In time there may be some metal legs released and I can always replace he gear in due course if needed. Tom Hi Tom, I'm looking forward to seeing you finish this kit! I couldn't stop myself, and ended up cutting the major parts off of the sprue's last night. Even without cleaning up the fit looked to be pretty good. I told myself that I wasn't going to start this kit until there was some aftermarket wheels and landing gear legs, but I may not be able to contain myself 😆 Fred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 On 1/23/2021 at 4:49 PM, f5guy said: Hi Tom, I'm looking forward to seeing you finish this kit! I couldn't stop myself, and ended up cutting the major parts off of the sprue's last night. Even without cleaning up the fit looked to be pretty good. I told myself that I wasn't going to start this kit until there was some aftermarket wheels and landing gear legs, but I may not be able to contain myself 😆 Fred. Good man! Make sure you keep us updated on your progress! Milliput and some careful sanding has worked it's magic with the pylons... Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Tail issue has been resolved - swivel plates made from thin plastic card: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Starting to look the part: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr On to the engines themselves next... All the best, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f5guy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 You're really not helping me resist temptation at all Tom 🤣 Keep up the great work! Fred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/25/2021 at 12:44 PM, f5guy said: You're really not helping me resist temptation at all Tom 🤣 Keep up the great work! Fred. Resistance is futile, Fred - get stuck in! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share Posted January 27, 2021 A small update for today - the engines have been filled, sanded, panel lines reinstated and are ready for installation when I'm next at the bench: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr The small chin intakes needed a bit of reshaping with Milliput, but should look fine under some paint. Time will tell.. Take care all, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 Tom, Based on close up photos of the -55 JT3D engines, I would say you have hit it pretty much on the nose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share Posted January 28, 2021 Those are great images, @Dutch... but things have suddenly taken a bit of downward turn... I tried to fit the engines last night, but unfortunately have discovered a rather major problem. I trial fitted the landing gear to check for ground clearance of the engines, and the inboard nacelles sat firmly on the ground! The problem, I think, is the fact the pylons are too deep and therefore the engines sit far too low. I wish I'd discovered this before I'd attached the pylons to the wings, as I now have the rather delicate task of removing the lower portion of the pylon to enable to the engine to sit higher and have the correct ground clearance. Below you can see the area in need of removal on the outer pylon, with the inner already trimmed. This was done after consulting photographs and the good old-fashioned MkI eyeball - not an exact science but I hope it will solve the problem: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr The engines also had a bit of a nose-down attitude which I can now correct too. I've been scratching my head and wondering if I've done something wrong, so will be interested to see if others have this problem... Onwards and upwards! Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 (edited) Tom, You have my sympathies. I hate it when something as dramatic as that happens. After looking at the two photos above, I have concluded that the upper photo is of a -33 and the lower photo of a -55. I would say there is quite a bit of ground clearance on both engines. Are the undercarriage legs long enough, do you think? Do the wings have the correct dihedral angle? K/r, Dutch Edited January 29, 2021 by Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share Posted January 29, 2021 10 hours ago, Dutch said: Tom, You have my sympathies. I hate it when something as dramatic as that happens. After looking at the two photos above, I have concluded that the upper photo is of a -33 and the lower photo of a -55. I would say there is quite a bit of ground clearance on both engines. Are the undercarriage legs long enough, do you think? Do the wings have the correct dihedral angle? K/r, Dutch I'm 99% certain the gear is fine, and the wing dihedral also looks about right. When you compare the real deal to the kit, it becomes clear the pylons are too deep, and I also think, when you look at the upper leading edges of the pylon, the angle is too steep - hence they sit too low. Anyway, the engines have been more or less sorted - to a point which is about as good as I get them. As outlined above, the pylons are too deep and therefore needed a portion removing - this has the effect of raising the engines up sufficiently and gives them the necessary ground clearance: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr This was done with a thin hacksaw blade, and amazingly the pylons themselves suffered no ill effects. Some careful filing to ensure all were identical, and then I could add the engines themselves: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr I've also been able to correct the nose-down attitude of the engines too, which was exaggerated by the kit pylons. Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr The pylon to engine join will need a quick lick of filler, but overall the surgery has been a success: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr A couple of top-shots: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr And the underside: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr I think it'll tackling the cockpit next: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr All the best, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Beautiful work! Definitely a Douglas Eight! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 5, 2021 Author Share Posted February 5, 2021 Morning all... Not a lot of progress to report this week due to work and family hindering bench-time, but a lovely set of decals arrived in the post: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr I was planning to build this using the kit-supplied Iberia decals, but having inspected them more closely I'm not convinced they will do the job properly and key features such as door outlines are missing - a real ball-ache to paint or source independently. Thankfully, Neil Gaunt (aka 'Mr Aircraft in Miniature') does numerous decal sets for his own DC-8 kits so I ordered a set for Delta Airlines which I think is an absolute classic of a scheme and suits the Mighty-8 so well! The cheatline has the cabin windows integral, so I've been busy applying the glazing to the kit windows in preparation to fill these and use decals instead. I think the kit's cabin windows are a little off in shape and the decals will also provide the aluminium frames so it's a win-win. I've also got the luxury of having cockpit window decals if the transparencies don't come good - I'm going to try and avoid this as in 1/72nd scale I think clear parts for the flightdeck work better, but we'll see how things go when I get to the cockpit glazing. Interestingly, another modeller and I have been conversing on a facebook thread, and he too is building the same kit although he is converting his to the longer -73 and is sources some CFM56s for his. We were chatting about the engine issue and he has found that his sit higher than mine did, which has puzzled me somewhat: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr In his picture (which I hope he doesn't mind me sharing) you can see once the pylon is attached to the wing, there will be some ground-clearance. However, I think the engine will still sit too low when compared to the real thing. The only thing I can think of is that he has his wings attached at a greater angle of dihedral - however as you will have seen in my earlier posts I've attached the wings exactly as the kit was designed for them to attach which I think is reasonably accurate. Puzzled? Yep - me too! Also of interest is the fact he says the stabilisers were the same height on his kit unlike mine - but he attached the rear section on his after he had joined the main fuselage halves. Again I'm somewhat puzzled as you will see from my earlier pictures that an awful of care was taken to ensure the rear-most section joined the main fuselage halves as exactly as possible. I'm off to do some head-scratching and will be very interested to see if others building this have encountered the same problems that I have... or if it's just me being cack-handed! All the best, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jenshb Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Strange...the only explanation I can think of is that Mach2 modified their moulds at some point through production, but shipped the original mouldings in spite of their faults... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 6, 2021 Author Share Posted February 6, 2021 An interesting further observation to share with those interested regarding the stabiliser issue I found. A fellow modeller, as mentioned above, said that his stabilisers were level in his kit so I asked him to send me a photo. I'm afraid I completely disagree with this claim - see for yourself: Brian's DC-8 by Thomas Probert, on Flickr The red lines are the true horizontal/vertical using the position of his wings as a datum point. The green line is the point on the elevators which is closest to the fuselage. The blue lines are the upper/lower sections of the stabs, and the yellow follow the line of the stabilisers and therefore should meet exactly on the centre point of the fuselage - as you can see this point is well off to the left in the image he sent me. I think his vertical stab is off to the left too... His tail looks exactly like mine did - the right stab is higher than the left. I rest my case, at least for now... Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 Tom, Thanks for that bit of geometry. Yes, I highly doubt that Mach2 altered their molds. You're analysis of your own kit and that of your friend prove that the starboard side stab attachement point is molded too high (or, conversely, the port side too low). However, pictures and geometry don't lie. Or I should say that pictures of geometry don't lie! So he sourced two Mach2 kits to make one DC-8-70 series, plus the extras? Now that is an expensive way to go. I like your choice of the classic Delta livery. Can't wait to see mopre progress photos. K/r, Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 It's been a slow week for modelling, but a little more progress on the DC-8... I've now committed to the Delta scheme using the AIM sheet so the windows needed filling. They fit quite well actually, and if one was so inclined I think they could be made to work well with a light sanding and a polish: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr There are plenty of windows spare, thankfully, as with no sills they fall in quite easily - this happened to me (four times) with no hope of retrieval so it now sounds like a baby's rattle! Here are the windows after a lick of filler: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Finally they've had a quick brush of flat white which didn't reveal any issues: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Until next time, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
le_boz Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 Impressive work Tom, Thanks for sharing. I also really like this Delta scheme Look forward to see the progress Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Hello guys and gals, Last night I began working on the cockpit. The kit's transparencies are a little cloudy on my example and in my humble opinion the cockpit windows are slightly off shape-wise so I have decided to see if I can improve the situation... First job was to sand off the window outlines and get the basic shape a little more uniform in terms of dips and bumps: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Next up was a lengthy polishing session with a buffing pad - these things work wonders! Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Test fit to the fuselage: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr With some careful trimming/filing I've managed to improve the fit considerably - I now need to add the seats and yokes before attaching the glazing and masking the shapes of the windows. All being well, I'll be able to keep the cockpit windows clear and won't have to use the AIM decal - something I was hoping to avoid in this larger 1/72nd scale. Until next time, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dutch Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Tom, Yes, fit looks much better now. Before masking individual panes, you may want to dip the windscreen in clear acrylic floor wax to seal the tiny ridges and truly bring out the clarity. I agree with you about using the clear windscreen for the cockpit and decals for the cabin windows. Nothing to see there, anyway. K/r, Dutch Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Dutch said: Tom, Yes, fit looks much better now. Before masking individual panes, you may want to dip the windscreen in clear acrylic floor wax to seal the tiny ridges and truly bring out the clarity. I agree with you about using the clear windscreen for the cockpit and decals for the cabin windows. Nothing to see there, anyway. K/r, Dutch A dip in Future was last night's job - the canopy is currently curing in a dust-free Tupperware pot! I'm planning on using the AIM windscreen decals as a guide - I'll trace the outlines onto masking tape before cutting to shape which will hopefully give me some accurate window masks... Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f5guy Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 She's looking great Tom 👍 Fred. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vidar_710 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 I was planning the same thing for this part, except I plan on using my corrections to vacuum form a new part using the corrected cockpit dome as a buck. Tracy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TommyP Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 Howdy all, A little more progress on the cockpit and glazing. I gave the seats a quick lick of dark grey and glued them into the flight deck along with the control columns. It wasn't worth going mad here as not a huge amount will be seen. I then lined the mating surfaces of the clear piece with a black marker to avoid the edges being visible, and glued it to the opening on the fuselage. Here, despite careful filing and test fitting, a nasty lip was left on the upper join, marked by the arrow below: 50950998191_e9889122cc_o by Thomas Probert, on Flickr So despite may careful sanding and polishing previously, there was no other option other than to give it good sanding to try to reduce this step before applying any filler: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr I then applied my trusty Milliput and then began a long session to blend the glazing in and bring the clear piece back to being nice and clear: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Getting there: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Perfect: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Using the AIM decal as a guide, I then set about making my own masks for the cockpit windows: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Which, I think, has had the desired outcome: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr A couple of minor tweaks needed, but I'm quite happy with the look. I've also just added the nose intakes, which will need a quick lick of filler: Untitled by Thomas Probert, on Flickr Until next time, all the best, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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