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Tamiya 1/48th F-4B Phantom II (item#61121)


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I don't know the quality of their moldings on that kit, but I built the 32nd Skyraider and I have the 32nd HE 219 to build. I'm a little intimidated at what I consider over-engineering and a lot of, to me, useless interior structure. The fit of the Skyraider was less than good for me, especially after just building the Tam 32nd Spit Mk IXc, which was the best engineered and best fitting kit I've ever built.

So, unfortunately, I'll wait for the Tam kit of an "E", but thanks for the heads up on the ZM. The Skyraider left a bad taste in my mouth. I met 'The Old Man' and his sons at the Orlando nats a while back. Very nice people. Got my picture with him and one of his sons on the ZM site. That's when I ordered the '219'. Would have waited for the revell kit if I'd known.

 

Thanks again,

 

DET1460

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10 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

Three USMC F-4Bs squadrons in Vietnam covered so far: http://www.aoadecals.com/48014/

Maybe more coming....

 

Tamiya apparently decided to go with the later upgraded F-4B version to model that had the later ECM fit, Mk.7 seats, later trunnion covers, later stabilators, etc.

 

Bert Kinzey posted on FB that he was involved with Tamiya for a year on the kit and "the decal selection will be more limited than those for F-4Bs in general, because Tamiya has opted to do a specific ECM fit on the model. So decals will need to be for F-4Bs that had that fit, otherwise, the modeler will have to make changes to the kit."

 

A little unusual considering with minimal extra parts included they could've provided parts to represent more F-4B options but instead OOB they went with late version only it seems based on Bert's comment (and T's pictures posted so far).

 

Well that at least opens the door for many resin aftermarkets back-date sets to cover the earlier Bs.

I really am clueless about which wings were used where, but I'd think most Phantom B's would have been upgraded to the newer wing by 1967. Am I right? I don't know, and walking past them they all looked the same to a young kid. I wonder if the resin Royal wings would work? I think I have a couple sets somewhere. Anyway; I'm sure somebody will bring out the after market parts to do an early Phantom on down the road. 

gary

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2 hours ago, fulcrum1 said:

I have the ZM F-4E....very, very nice kit. Seems to be a straightfoward build compared to some of their other offerings.

The ZM F4c goes together very well too. Have no idea about the J and S models. I do plan on getting a couple F4e's. The other poster commented about the Skyraider not going together right. I know a half dozen guys that have done that kit with out a hitch. Have no idea about the He219, but have seen a couple built (contest winners). The ZM kits are not weekend kits, and were never meant to be.  I'm buying the Tamiya F4 because I'm not going to wait till they finally do one. The Phantom I really want is the F4g Wild Weasel used in Desert Storm.

Between Tamiya and ZM (plus some others) we are lucky to have good quality kits

gary

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9 hours ago, stalal said:

Having said this, did we really need another F-4 in 1/48? 

 

7 hours ago, Solo said:

Don't think so. We need many other jets, but not another F-4.

 

Tamiya's accountants and decision makers feel differently......

 

3 hours ago, DET1460 said:

So, unfortunately, I'll wait for the Tam kit of an "E", but thanks for the heads up on the ZM.

 

That could possibly be a very, very long wait.

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2 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

...  I'm buying the Tamiya F4 because I'm not going to wait till they finally do one. The Phantom I really want is the F4g Wild Weasel used in Desert Storm...

 

 

gary

 

ZM is planning to release the F-4G this Summer.  I suspect that ZM skipped doing the B/N because they knew Tamiya was working on this kit.  Old Man Blog 107 list all seven of the F-4E variants they plan to release.

 

-Cliff

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7 hours ago, dylan said:

hopefully Tamiya will continue on with all the versions in the series. (hello F-16B)

I can see them producing a EJ model because , well the home market would love one as well

I see this rationale a lot. But IMHO if it was  true why not start with E, or EJ.. And why  never a F-86, F-104 etc... 

Tamiya have am annoying track record of doing a few variants, teasing much but  then leaving the modeller hung out to dry .... look at the 48 scale P-47 (no N) F-16 (No D's A's or any of the interesting big spine variants.... it appears the F-14 and P-38 maybe going that way as well .

 

From this modellers perspective they make no sense in what they do. 😉 

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2 hours ago, Cliff C said:

 

ZM is planning to release the F-4G this Summer.  I suspect that ZM skipped doing the B/N because they knew Tamiya was working on this kit.  Old Man Blog 107 list all seven of the F-4E variants they plan to release.

 

-Cliff

That’s great news! Where did you read about the F-4G?

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3 hours ago, a4s4eva said:

I see this rationale a lot. But IMHO if it was  true why not start with E, or EJ.. And why  never a F-86, F-104 etc... 

Tamiya have am annoying track record of doing a few variants, teasing much but  then leaving the modeller hung out to dry .... look at the 48 scale P-47 (no N) F-16 (No D's A's or any of the interesting big spine variants.... it appears the F-14 and P-38 maybe going that way as well .

 

From this modellers perspective they make no sense in what they do. 😉 

This almost sounds as if you feel Tamiya is acting with malicious intent, leaving us "hung out to dry" because they don't produce comprehensive series of the planes they engineer. I don't think Tamiya owes us anything. They've given us a whole bunch of beautifully engineered kits that are just fun to build and look great when completed. Perhaps it's because I'm 73.5 and acutely aware that I'll almost certainly not finish building my relatively modest stash in my lifetime, but I'm happy to invest in nearly any 1:48 kit that Tamiya puts on the market, confident that it'll be a fun and rewarding project whether or not they choose to do any other variants. As for the upcoming F-4B, I'll happily build one. I've only got one Phantom under my belt, a Hasegawa -E that I really enjoyed even though it's been declared "obsolete." I want a thin-wing F-4 in my collection and will be delighted to avoid having to deal with Academy's offering.

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7 hours ago, Cliff C said:

 

ZM is planning to release the F-4G this Summer.  I suspect that ZM skipped doing the B/N because they knew Tamiya was working on this kit.  Old Man Blog 107 list all seven of the F-4E variants they plan to release.

 

-Cliff

just where am I going to put all these kits? I build armor as well, and that stash alone is getting out of hand. RFM and Takom are killing me! Now Tamiya has announced a new Phantom, and it's one I've been in the hunt for. I hope Tamiya likes the sales of this kit, and thinks strongly about an F105d and F105g. I still need to order in a couple F4j's and two F4e's from ZM. I see I'm in need of two more racks to store kits in! To take this a step further, I'm thinking about an RF4b or RF4c down the road using parts from Hasegawa. I have at least one set of the Royal wings (maybe two). Yet I like the wing fold option that Tamiya offers! 

 

With ZM heavily involved in a large scale BF106g6, I think that will end it for the other big scale kits. Their Hs129's beautiful kits, but pretty hard to get these days (and not cheap)

gary

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23 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

The ZM F4c goes together very well too. Have no idea about the J and S models. I do plan on getting a couple F4e's. The other poster commented about the Skyraider not going together right. I know a half dozen guys that have done that kit with out a hitch. Have no idea about the He219, but have seen a couple built (contest winners). The ZM kits are not weekend kits, and were never meant to be.  I'm buying the Tamiya F4 because I'm not going to wait till they finally do one. The Phantom I really want is the F4g Wild Weasel used in Desert Storm.

Between Tamiya and ZM (plus some others) we are lucky to have good quality kits

gary

 

I am currently building the ZM He 219 and I have the ZM F-4E Early. There is no comparison between their Phantom kits and the extreme(ly) engineered/detailed 1/32 kits. 

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I'm I the only one who is curious about how this kit is parted out? I spot very few seams. It appears Tamiya is working its magic. Thanks Tamiya for bringing yet another superior kit to the market.

 

 

Steven

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On 1/26/2021 at 2:59 PM, ChesshireCat said:

I really am clueless about which wings were used where, but I'd think most Phantom B's would have been upgraded to the newer wing by 1967. Am I right? I don't know, and walking past them they all looked the same to a young kid. I wonder if the resin Royal wings would work? I think I have a couple sets somewhere. Anyway; I'm sure somebody will bring out the after market parts to do an early Phantom on down the road. 

gary


Gary,

 

The Phantom II wing lineage can indeed be confusing.
 

The 2 prototypes, all 45 test and fleet development aircraft (later re-designated F-4A), all 649 F-4B’s, plus the first 34 RF-4B aircraft had the so called “thin wing,” and, as far as I know, none were ever re-fitted with the bulged wing (that accommodated wider main tires). 
 

Subtle changes made to the (R)F-4B wings over the years included skin doubler plates and the addition of small oblong shaped MLG trunnion covers. Also, as slotted stabilators were fitted beginning in the late 1960s, the inboard section wing LE flaps were deactivated and the ailerons made to droop for takeoff and landing.

 

The couple hundred or so Bravos that emerged from a 1970s service life extension program as F-4N's retained the skinny tires and thin wings all the way through to retirement.

 

As others have pointed out, this first release by Tamiya is a “late configuration” B with doubler plates and MLG trunnion covers (among other differences airframe wide).
 

I think it’s inevitable that we will see early F-4B and F-4N boxings from Tamiya in the future - the modifications would be minimal - but I’d be surprised if they expand the series any further.

 

I hope I’m wrong on this last bit of conjecture, as Tamiya have clearly elevated substantially the state-of-the-art for Phantom model kits with this impending release.

 

HTH’s

 

Rich

 

 

 

Edited by RichB63
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20 hours ago, seawinder said:

This almost sounds as if you feel Tamiya is acting with malicious intent, leaving us "hung out to dry" because they don't produce comprehensive series of the planes they engineer.

 

 

 

You're reading to much into it. It was just a way to express the frustration that they don't release more variants of the subjects they have do so well.  I'm pretty sure many modellers feel this way. 

 

Quote

I don't think Tamiya owes us anything.

Never said they did.

 

Quote

They've given us a whole bunch of beautifully engineered kits that are just fun to build and look great when completed. Perhaps it's because I'm 73.5 and acutely aware that I'll almost certainly not finish building my relatively modest stash in my lifetime, but I'm happy to invest in nearly any 1:48 kit that Tamiya puts on the market, confident that it'll be a fun and rewarding project whether or not they choose to do any other variants. As for the upcoming F-4B, I'll happily build one. I've only got one Phantom under my belt, a Hasegawa -E that I really enjoyed even though it's been declared "obsolete." I want a thin-wing F-4 in my collection and will be delighted to avoid having to deal with Academy's offering.

No argument with here. I bought the P-38 purely because it's Tamiya and despite having no interest in the subject whatsoever. That said I'd choose the Eduard Spitfire Mk I and 109G6 over the Tamiya variants because, for me, they have better options in the box and have better surface detail. 

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8 hours ago, Mr Matt Foley said:

 

I am currently building the ZM He 219 and I have the ZM F-4E Early. There is no comparison between their Phantom kits and the extreme(ly) engineered/detailed 1/32 kits. 

That He219 kind a scared me off due to it's over all size alone. Had they done a 1/48th kit, I'd go for it. The Tamiya He219 has it's issues, and really see no fix in sight. Still I'm not a purest and just bought one anyway. 

 

     I have two more F4c's setting around, and a couple Hasegawa RF4b's as well. Kind want to see if I can sort of graft the Hasegawa nose to the F4c, or maybe modify the ZM nose using Hasegawa parts to build an RF4c. I really want a good RF4c real bad!

gary

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11 hours ago, a4s4eva said:

It was just a way to express the frustration that they don't release more variants of the subjects they have do so well.  I'm pretty sure many modelers feel this way. 

I do.

Why start a line, then leave it incomplete when the market is there for the follow on two-seaters or whatever?

 

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It is easy for us as modellers to see ourselves as a BIG market for a kit.  I am sure Tamiya sees things differently.  There is probably a bean counter in the company saying there are single seat F-16's numbering in the 1000s and two seaters in the 100s and most of those are relegated to training units.  Just won't produce the same excitement or market value for the expense of making the molds.  

 

Geoff M

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3 hours ago, ST0RM said:

I do.

Why start a line, then leave it incomplete when the market is there for the follow on two-seaters or whatever?

 

 

That could literally be said for every model company and almost every kit ever produced. Why did Italeri only do the early AH-1W or Monogram only do the F9F-5 or Hasegawa only do the F-8E and the list goes on and on. Expecting a model company to release kits of every variant of a particular subject is unrealistic and very easy to do when you're not handling said companies finances. 

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