Book suggestions for the AC-130H

[ulvdemon]

I figured this would be a good place to ask, I am looking for any suggestions for books on the AC-130.  I'm looking into getting  Gunships: The Story of Spooky, Shadow, Stinger and Spectre by Wayne Mutza.  Anyone have any other suggestions for a good read?

Edited January 28, 2021 by ulvdemon

[ChesshireCat]

11 hours ago, ulvdemon said:

I figured this would be a good place to ask, I am looking for any suggestions for books on the AC-130.  I'm looking into getting  Gunships: The Story of Spooky, Shadow, Stinger and Spectre by Wayne Mutza.  Anyone have any other suggestions for a good read?

There's a whole series of "Spooky" AC47 gunships, and know they went well past number ten. Always thought they all were identical, but was informed about a month ago that not all were identical by someone who would know. The term Spooky really tells you that it was a Da Nang airframe, and  most others were known as "Puff The Magic Dragon" plus a few other odd names here and there. The AC119's were around much longer than I'd have thought. There'd been more of them, but for the lack of trained crews. Like Spooky, there were at least two different styles, and maybe more. Some carried flares and some didn't (same with the AC47). My particular source for information comes from the crew chief of an AC119, but he also served on the AC47's and transitioned into the early AC130 (two or three versions here). I'd heard about those "new" AC119 gunships, but they stayed to the south most of the time. Every once in awhile they'd make an emergency jaunt into I-Corp so he says, and got as far south as Saigon district (or whatever they called it). I-Corp was at the bottom of the food chain, and you had to divide their attention between the Ho Che Mein Trail, and a few outposts here and there. The AC47 was a familure sight out west due to it's range and loiter time. The AC119 could slow down to a literal crawl in the air, and so could the AC47. That and learning the circle were what saved your life. In the fall of 68 there were photos of a new beast coming, and that was the AC130. Folks claimed it could do it all, and even better. I can't say as we never got the visit from the new stuff. The cannon that later became fashionable didn't work all that well at first, but guess that was ironed out with the AC130's. There were also supposed to have been an AC123, but don't ever recall seeing or hearing about them in country. Besides they'd have heard it minutes out! Always amazed me how a WWII Goony bird could pick up a well used train at one in the morning and follow it with the red ribbon keeping everything within three meters on both sides. This I've seen with my own eyes

gary

[ziggyfoos]

What type of reference are you looking for? Story, development/service, photos, old or new gunships?

 

Your title mentions specifically books on the AC-130H, I'm not aware of any books that are specific to the H gunship. Most books having AC-130 info is a broader coverage - either book covers the C-130 in general, or like the Mutza book you mentioned, covers all gunship a/c types.

 

Similar to the Mutza book, there is an older Larry Davis Gunships book from Squadron Signal (cover and title looks like it's AC-47 only but book covers all the gunships), he also authored similar Vietnam gunship two part series in International Air Power Review.

 

There's also a USAF book by Jack Ballard about the gunships in Vietnam.

 

Also a Verlinden Lock-On book that covers both the C-130 and AC-130E if you're looking more for "modern" walkaround photos.

 

 

The AC-119 actually came after the AC-130. The AC-119 was to take over more of the lighter/smaller AC-47 missions since the AC-130 was mainly operating along the Ho Chi Minh trail (later AC-119Ks also did trail interdictions). The first AC-130 was first there in 1967, with a full AC-130A squadron number I think it was by mid-1968. The first AC-119 didn't get to Vietnam until late 1968 (AC-119G).

[ulvdemon]

Just to clarify, not just looking for the H model, I have a model in the stash for that particular model.  Just looking for a good read on the gunships, would love a walk around type book, but I am more that happy with a history run down type book.  Just looking to broaden the personal library with recommendations from others that have an extensive library of their own.

[ziggyfoos]

3 minutes ago, ulvdemon said:

Just to clarify, not just looking for the H model, I have a model in the stash for that particular model.  Just looking for a good read on the gunships, would love a walk around type book, but I am more that happy with a history run down type book.  Just looking to broaden the personal library with recommendations from others that have an extensive library of their own.

 

The Mutza book and what I posted earlier are about the best there is on the subject for books. I've tried to gather as much AC-130 books as possible to help with gunships part 2 decal sheet, majority of other books I've collected on C-130's in general in hopes of getting new AC-130 have been pretty much a waste of time/money. Considering how long the C-130 has been in service and number of variants, general C-130 books only have a relative brief section about the gunship variants, all of which is basic and redundant of what is already included in the full gunship specific Mutza/Davis books. I'd definitely start with those books for gunship info. Skip the Davis book though if you're looking primarily for post-Vietnam gunships. There's also a SAM Publications book that covers USAF Spec Ops and again includes a chapter to the AC-130, it's relatively small but does include info/photos of more modern usage of the gunships rather than primarily Vietnam.

[ulvdemon]

15 minutes ago, ziggyfoos said:

 

The Mutza book and what I posted earlier are about the best there is on the subject for books. I've tried to gather as much AC-130 books as possible to help with gunships part 2 decal sheet, majority of other books I've collected on C-130's in general in hopes of getting new AC-130 have been pretty much a waste of time/money. Considering how long the C-130 has been in service and number of variants, general C-130 books only have a relative brief section about the gunship variants, all of which is basic and redundant of what is already included in the full gunship specific Mutza/Davis books. I'd definitely start with those books for gunship info. Skip the Davis book though if you're looking primarily for post-Vietnam gunships. There's also a SAM Publications book that covers USAF Spec Ops and again includes a chapter to the AC-130, it's relatively small but does include info/photos of more modern usage of the gunships rather than primarily Vietnam.

 I have that Spec Ops book, small section on the gunship but still pretty cool.  Thanks for the other suggestions, will definitely add to the list.

[Koen L]

The Jack Ballard book can be downloaded from the US DOD site: https://media.defense.gov/2010/May/26/2001330293/-1/-1/0/AFD-100526-036.pdf

[Da SWO]

There is another substantial book that was just cleared by DoD and the author is looking for a publisher, hope it's out this year.

[ChesshireCat]

18 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

What type of reference are you looking for? Story, development/service, photos, old or new gunships?

 

Your title mentions specifically books on the AC-130H, I'm not aware of any books that are specific to the H gunship. Most books having AC-130 info is a broader coverage - either book covers the C-130 in general, or like the Mutza book you mentioned, covers all gunship a/c types.

 

Similar to the Mutza book, there is an older Larry Davis Gunships book from Squadron Signal (cover and title looks like it's AC-47 only but book covers all the gunships), he also authored similar Vietnam gunship two part series in International Air Power Review.

 

There's also a USAF book by Jack Ballard about the gunships in Vietnam.

 

Also a Verlinden Lock-On book that covers both the C-130 and AC-130E if you're looking more for "modern" walkaround photos.

 

 

The AC-119 actually came after the AC-130. The AC-119 was to take over more of the lighter/smaller AC-47 missions since the AC-130 was mainly operating along the Ho Chi Minh trail (later AC-119Ks also did trail interdictions). The first AC-130 was first there in 1967, with a full AC-130A squadron number I think it was by mid-1968. The first AC-119 didn't get to Vietnam until late 1968 (AC-119G).

they were at least flying AC119's out of Pleiku in the spring of 68. They were flying while I was still doing strikes down Highway One all the way to Duc Pho. I was completely out of there around the first of May, and headed out in the Que Son Valley for the next nine months. I never heard a word about AC119's after that. The fellow in my 40&8 unit was on AC119's and left soon after I left the southern AO. He did come back a year or so later, but don't really know what he crewed on at that time. The first AC 119's were actually crewed by folks that flew C119's out of Columbus Indiana. I remember the unit, as I almost joined it in 67. Shortly after I was drafted, they called up the unit onto active duty. So they'd have gotten me either way. The first we heard about the AC130's was from an article in the Stars & Stripes in the fall of 68 (maybe the Army Times as it's been 53 years). They had some photos and a write up, but were not an active unit yet (so they said). Remember just because they are in the theater doesn't always mean they're active. Same can be said for the F100 and the snakeye bombs. They fooled with that one for a month or two before releasing the weapon system. Believe me, if we could have gotten the AC130 up north, there'd have been four or five in Da Nang. 

 

Whether the AC130 was there in 67, I can only say nobody up north ever heard of one till the fall of 68. The AC47 was always in a short supply, and it was often that when we put in a call for them that they had to break off from somewhere else. And we did this two or three times a month due to being out from under the arty umbrella. Some area were given complete priority over just about anything else. (the Marryanne area comes to mind and Marryanne didn't exist then). Some places lived and died by their presence. Kontum / Kam Duc area, Khe Shan / DMZ areas, the Ashau Valley, and the Que Son Valley as well. Those areas made up 54% of the KIA's in country. 

gary

[ziggyfoos]

4 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

they were at least flying AC119's out of Pleiku in the spring of 68. They were flying while I was still doing strikes down Highway One all the way to Duc Pho. I was completely out of there around the first of May, and headed out in the Que Son Valley for the next nine months. I never heard a word about AC119's after that. The fellow in my 40&8 unit was on AC119's and left soon after I left the southern AO. He did come back a year or so later, but don't really know what he crewed on at that time. The first AC 119's were actually crewed by folks that flew C119's out of Columbus Indiana. I remember the unit, as I almost joined it in 67. Shortly after I was drafted, they called up the unit onto active duty. So they'd have gotten me either way. The first we heard about the AC130's was from an article in the Stars & Stripes in the fall of 68 (maybe the Army Times as it's been 53 years). They had some photos and a write up, but were not an active unit yet (so they said). Remember just because they are in the theater doesn't always mean they're active. Same can be said for the F100 and the snakeye bombs. They fooled with that one for a month or two before releasing the weapon system. Believe me, if we could have gotten the AC130 up north, there'd have been four or five in Da Nang. 

 

Whether the AC130 was there in 67, I can only say nobody up north ever heard of one till the fall of 68. The AC47 was always in a short supply, and it was often that when we put in a call for them that they had to break off from somewhere else. And we did this two or three times a month due to being out from under the arty umbrella. Some area were given complete priority over just about anything else. (the Marryanne area comes to mind and Marryanne didn't exist then). Some places lived and died by their presence. Kontum / Kam Duc area, Khe Shan / DMZ areas, the Ashau Valley, and the Que Son Valley as well. Those areas made up 54% of the KIA's in country. 

gary

I can't speak obviously to what you saw in early 1968.

The first AC-119G was only delivered from the OEM to the USAF in May 68. It then went through much test and eval (in the US) during the summer of 68. The AC-119 program went through many delays for various reasons in 1968 such that the first two AC-119Gs didn't arrive in Vietnam until late Dec 1968.

The first (single) prototype AC-130 went to Vietnam for combat eval between Sept-Dec 67 and was back in Vietnam from Feb 68 through Nov, by then more AC-130s started to arrive as well.

Check out the Ballard USAF book previously mentioned for loads of details.

[Da SWO]

AC-130 was flying out of Thailand, working the trail.  Someone in VN probably wouldn't see or get support from them.

[ChesshireCat]

10 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

I can't speak obviously to what you saw in early 1968.

The first AC-119G was only delivered from the OEM to the USAF in May 68. It then went through much test and eval (in the US) during the summer of 68. The AC-119 program went through many delays for various reasons in 1968 such that the first two AC-119Gs didn't arrive in Vietnam until late Dec 1968.

The first (single) prototype AC-130 went to Vietnam for combat eval between Sept-Dec 67 and was back in Vietnam from Feb 68 through Nov, by then more AC-130s started to arrive as well.

Check out the Ballard USAF book previously mentioned for loads of details.

Ziggy,

lets let this set awhile till next Tuesday night. I'll see the guy, and either get it strait. I'd post his name (somewhat well known), but never without permission. I knew he was an Airforce guy, but for years always thought of him in generic C130's. Then about 18 months ago he won some kind of a special award for his service in Vietnam with some sort of a special operations gig. I naturally thought EC121 as I knew he'd flown the trail many, many times. A few Tuesdays back we had a five or ten minute talk and he told me he was on the AC119's and was out of Columbus Indiana AirGuard post. He had a good laugh about the fact that I almost joined them to avoid the draft. That's when I found out I'd been stuck in there for forty eight months instead of nineteen months! The whole time frame means little now (to me), but I most certainly resent being at the bottom of the food chain. I was around most of the big players up north at least once or twice over, and many very often. Met the folks many here will resent, and met the ones folks hail about. The only one I ever really cared about was Bob Hope, and got to shake his hand twice. 

 

I'm very proud of you for doing the Chu Lai and Da Nang aircraft. These guys were the big players in I-Corp (Marines) when you got in trouble. Nobody puts the pickle in your hip pocket as well as a Marine pilot! The rest were OK, but not quite as good. I certainly hope you expand your line by doing some Skyraiders and A37's out of Da Nang. When Kevin quit, I thought that would be the last we'd ever see of those famous MAG units. Most folks don't know it, but the Navy was in and out of Chu Lai daily. Used set on a hill top and watch them limp in from north of the 17th parallel. The bone yard there looked look an aircraft carrier log book! 

gary

 

[ChesshireCat]

1 hour ago, Da SWO said:

AC-130 was flying out of Thailand, working the trail.  Someone in VN probably wouldn't see or get support from them.

They probably saw them over around Kontum / Dak To (Kam Duc was closed in mid 68). We never saw anything but the AC47 from Chu Lai north. When my base camp was under siege, they had an AC47 over head almost 24/7, and it wasn't uncommon to see two or three (where'd they come from?). That lasted six and a half months

gary

[ChesshireCat]

Jay said we are both right and just as well wrong. If that makes any sense. He said your right that the AC130 did proceed the AC119, but really just a piece of paper work for the most part. Why? Due to a lack of airframes to modify. What I heard about was an experimental wing to test the merits of the AC130 (which of course did well). The very first AC119 wing was made up of planes belonging to the Columbus wing. These were sent to Florida for modification, and crewed by the same folks from Columbus. They were in country at about the sametime (operational verses testing). Guess there were a few issues with each one that had to be ironed out (he didn't go into detail). He also said the reason they really went with the newer airframes was simply because they ran out of C47's, and many stilled liked the C47 just as well as the other two. One interesting thing was that he was unaware of AC47's flying up the trail, but they are called out on the Vietnam KIA lists a few times over the last three or so months. He also said that there were several variations of the AC47; yet the differences were usually very minor. The use of flares being the biggest. For the most part all were identical looking. Jay needs to write a book before it becomes too late. Oh, I almost forgot to mention that they were having a hard time finding good C119 airframes to modify as well. Wanted to ask him if they had used any new C130 airframes but forgot to. 

gary