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72nd Scale Details Rant!


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Hi All,

 

Just a (smallish!) rant about the lack of 72nd helo details on the market.  Yes, I know there are some excellent details out there for example from ResKit for the CH-53 kit but boy, there are some up-date items we could definitely use like;

 

Israeli AH-1 Tzefa ECM gear

USMC CH-53E ECM gear and door guns

USMC CH-46E ECM gear and door guns

USMC UH-1N ECM gear, lumps and bumps, weapons, and door guns

USN CH-46D flotation gear

German Bo-105 PAH-1A1 weapons racks and,

Mi-8 nose gun

 

While not an exhaustive list and perhaps these items will never see the-light-of-day, they would probably prove pretty useful to many of us who want up-to-date help stuff!

 

Rant off!,

 

(Almost!) Flew NAVY!

 

WARDOG

 

 

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Add to that list the CH-46's enlarged BullPhrog sponsons...

 

....and USMC and USN low-viz decals - between them, Flying Leathernecks and MAW did some great-looking sheets in 1/48 for various Marines birds, but in 1/72, there's almost nothing...

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14 minutes ago, andyf117 said:

Add to that list the CH-46's enlarged BullPhrog sponsons...


x2. 

Wolfpak used to make decals for 1/72 folks. 

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2 hours ago, andyf117 said:

Add to that list the CH-46's enlarged BullPhrog sponsons...

 

....and USMC and USN low-viz decals - between them, Flying Leathernecks and MAW did some great-looking sheets in 1/48 for various Marines birds, but in 1/72, there's almost nothing...

I was lucky in picking up a very hard to find low-viz boxing of the Fujimi kit a few years ago.  Other than that, I think Wolfpack did a sheet that had one on it, but that was years ago and probably not obtainable any more.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/fujimi-72159-ch-46e-dragons--647930

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21 hours ago, fasteagle12 said:

I was lucky in picking up a very hard to find low-viz boxing of the Fujimi kit a few years ago.  Other than that, I think Wolfpack did a sheet that had one on it, but that was years ago and probably not obtainable any more.

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/fujimi-72159-ch-46e-dragons--647930

 

19 hours ago, Tank said:

 

Along with the Sea Knight, the Wolfpak sheet is the only one I know of that's catered for a low-viz Marines UH-1N - it can actually still be bought, direct from Fantasy Printshop (only 10 miles away from me!):

https://www.fantasyprintshop.co.uk/shop/wolfpak-72-035-cripes-a-mighty-marines/

PrintScale also have done a couple of 'low-viz' CH-46s - one Navy, one Marines - except that both subjects were gaudy 'specials', and in any case, PrintScale's accuracy leaves something to be desired; the 'Purple Foxes' 50th Anniversary special they provide markings for was a BullPhrog, as were the two other 'colourful' grey Marines birds on that sheet, so none of them can be modelled straight from any existing kit...

Edited by andyf117
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Here is where I currently stand on 1/72 resin and decal sheets.

 

While direct sales have been less than stellar (down right atrocious to be honest) for the 72nd stuff I've released to date. Spruebrothers has actually sold out of every 72nd resin item I've sent them. While it hasn't been a lot, and the quantities were admittedly low, they sold out nonetheless. 

 

Several weeks ago I swore on my Facebook page that I would no longer entertain 72nd items simply because the lack of sales didn't justify it. However, as disappointed as I've been at the lack of direct sales, the items are moving at Spruebrothers. 

 

What I've released to date may not be your cup of tea, but if they continue to sell at Sprue, I will continue to down size the resin ordnance, as well as expand into other areas. As my primary focus is obviously Marine Corps subjects, the Helo stuff you'd like to see are definite possibilities. 

 

Decals are a slightly different animal. With the resin, I can literally print a few sets at a time or simply print to order. I will never have unsold stock just collecting dust. If the item doesn't move, I simply don't print any more. With the decals, I have to order a minimum of 250 sheets. If they don't sell, I'm stuck with a bunch of stock. Still trying to come up with a solution.

 

Bottom line is, if you all support the current line by purchasing what I've released to date, it would more than likely guarantee further items in 1/72 scale. Don't care if it's direct or via Spruebrothers or Hannants.

 

https://www.flyingleathernecksdecals.com/c/172-resin

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Hi Dave,

 

I really like the quality of your stuff but I'm a dedicated 72nd scale man ("Space, the final frontier!").

I will be getting a set of your KC-130T decals when they come out and if nothing else, you consider making the 72nd UH-1N up-date stuff, I'll definitely purchase it and make sure my buds know to pick it up also.

 

Oh, the email I sent you was about a deal on the Hasegawa AV-8B I sent you some time ago for a cut on your KC-130 decals (which were a future product at that time.).

 

Can you contact me at;

glynnj(AT)swbell(DOT)net when convenient?

 

Thanks,

 

WARDOG

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I'll be moving forward with this one and the file will be sent to Microscale tomorrow for a quote. If it does well, I'll continue with this format in 72nd scale. To be clear up front though, they will always have nothing but Marine Corps options on them. 

 

May be an image of text that says 'FL72002 Marine Aviation Combat Element KC-130F, F/A-18D, EA-6B, AV-8B Plus, MV-22B, AH-IZ, CH-53E, UH-IN 803 GR GR GR GR 803 9803 803 803 9803 UNITED STATES MARINES 149803 UNITED STATES MARINES VMGRT- NEVER VMGRT-25 PEDERSEN 164049 164049 MARINES MARINES VK VK MARINES VMFA(AW) -121 VMFA (AW)- 121 158542 Θο 1585420 C VMAQ-I 03 03 VMAQ- MARINES MARINES MARINES 03 03 MARINES VMA MARINES MM-163 MARINES MARINES VMM-163 168004 03 03 168004 ç 169254 169254 42 MARINES MARINES 8004 03 EN HMH-464 CONDORS 8004 CONDORS HMH-464 161542 07 07 158549 158549 MARINES MARINES MARINES 22 22 MARINES EN HTTS:/WWWYILETHENEDECES.OM YRIGT202FLYNGEE'

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On 2/7/2021 at 7:42 PM, Dave Roof said:

I'll be moving forward with this one and the file will be sent to Microscale tomorrow for a quote. If it does well, I'll continue with this format in 72nd scale. To be clear up front though, they will always have nothing but Marine Corps options on them.

 

8 hours ago, Dave Roof said:

Kind of feel like I'm wasting my time here, but thought I'd share one more 1/72 sheet that is being sent to print.

 

Two very good-looking sheets there, Dave, and the addition of chaff/flare dispensers and slime lights is a nice touch - I hope that they'll do well for you...

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On 2/11/2021 at 7:38 PM, Dave Roof said:

Kind of feel like I'm wasting my time here, but thought I'd share one more 1/72 sheet that is being sent to print. 

May be an image of text that says 'Marine Aviation Combat Element Il FL72003 KC-130F, MV-22B, AH-IW, AD-6, CH-53D, F/A-18C BOBBH808BHBHBoB 9808 808 BH 9808 UNITED STATES MARINES 149808 UNITED STATES MARINES VMGR-252 VMGR- 252 DANGER MARINES 166497 VMM-362 MARINES 6497 3E 166497 VMM-362 33 6497 MARINES 165326 MARINES 06 M HNLAOHEY 165326 06 MARINES MARINES MARINES VMA-331 39754 17VL 39754 VMA-331 VL 17 39754 17 MARINESI7 139754 VL MARINES 53 53 53 MARINES N HMH-362 HMH-362 56959 DANGER VMFA 312 205 MARINES CHECKERBOARDS FIGHT'S ON CHECKERBOARDS 205 205 HTPS:W.WILETHENEDECELS.COM MARINES 205 VMFA-312 FIGHT'S ON CHECKERBOARDS 205 205 CHECKERBOARDS PRIT202GS'

Dave,

Will you be putting up profiles from the 2 sheets?  They both look great!

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I tried 1/72nd scale decals and resin pieces.  All have been dismal failures despite kits being available and horrible kit decals.  I still have plenty of each sheet and the two resin sets that I did sold so poorly that I barely got my money back.  72nd scale guys say they want this and that but in reality they don't purchase them.  I've stopped making decals because like Dave said, I have to print 250 minimum, when they don't sell I'm stuck with them.  It has to make monetary sense to make them and they just don't sell. This goes for helicopters and for jets.  I made Steve Ritchie F-4 Phantom decals and I've still got about 200 left.  Luckily I had a guy who invested in those so I didn't lose any money but that was the last straw for me to do 1/72nd scale.  It boils down to plain economics.  

Floyd

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Maybe 3D-printing will fill the gap here for parts? When I look at the list above - I´d love to have some parts for the Bo-105, but I don´t think there is more need for such a set than maybe a dozen worldwide. 3D-printing DOES require some work, when it comes to engineering the parts, but at least there is no need to stock these items, but do print on demand instead.

 

I feel different on items that are not specified for certain kits. I always have a need for nice detailled Mini-guns or other crew-served weapons. What I´d really dig are pilot figures and sitting troops for the cargo compartment! Best would be if those figures would be made up of 5 different parts: (sitting) legs, torso, two arms and head. This way you can vary their positions and sizes to fit into cargo rooms or else.

 

Until now I always had to use Preiser figures or similar to do sitting troops, and I have been watching for literally years now for a "new" set of sitting GIs in 1/72 scale by Preiser to be released. For some reason this company simply isn´t interested in serving "their" market and sell things - weird...

 

 

HAJO

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10 hours ago, Floyd S. Werner, Jr. said:

I tried 1/72nd scale decals and resin pieces.  All have been dismal failures despite kits being available and horrible kit decals.  I still have plenty of each sheet and the two resin sets that I did sold so poorly that I barely got my money back.  72nd scale guys say they want this and that but in reality they don't purchase them.  I've stopped making decals because like Dave said, I have to print 250 minimum, when they don't sell I'm stuck with them.  It has to make monetary sense to make them and they just don't sell. This goes for helicopters and for jets.  I made Steve Ritchie F-4 Phantom decals and I've still got about 200 left.  Luckily I had a guy who invested in those so I didn't lose any money but that was the last straw for me to do 1/72nd scale.  It boils down to plain economics.  

Floyd

 

Exactly. When I released my 48th KC-130J sheet I immediately started getting the "can you please do it in 72nd scale"? "A 48th C-130 is too big for my space and there are conversions available" and so on. All in all, I think I received a little over 50 emails/messages asking for the sheet in 72nd. 

 

So, I obliged and released the sheet..........crickets from most of those that sent emails/messages.

 

Fortunately, I at least got my money back in the sales I did get. Now to be fair, there has been a slight uptick in sales and I believe this is due to the new Zvezda kit. Supposedly they're doing a C-130J and possibly a KC-130J. It is my hope sales do improve if they do in fact release those versions. 

 

As far as my latest two decal releases are concerned, I made it very clear they would only be sent to print if I received enough pre-orders to pay for the print run. Thankfully and to my pleasant surprise, they did. Whether or not they'll sell more after they're actually released is obviously unknown at the moment.

 

Regarding the 3D printed ordnance. They're not flying off the shelf, but they've done a bit better than I expected. Unlike resin, I don't have to create molds and can also change the quantity of parts printed at once. I can either print to order or simply stop printing if an item doesn't move. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Tank said:

Floyd, 

I think part of the issue might be marketing and website usability. I sent you an email this morning about it.

 

Not sure if that is directed at Floyd's items or generally speaking. If generally speaking, I can say that simply isn't true, even for Floyd. He advertises his items just like everyone else. He has (or had) an Ebay presence and his stuff isn't any harder to obtain than anyone else's if you really wanted to buy them.

 

Not exact figures, but a close 'guestimate'........If 10 48th scale modelers say they would like to see something released, 7 of them will actually buy it when it is. If 10 72nd scale modelers say they would like to see something released, 2 of them will actually buy it when it is. 

 

Sorry, but the simple truth is a lot of 72nd scale modelers don't support us as well as 48th modelers do. Hell, I have better sales for 1/32nd scale stuff than I do for 72nd!

 

While I have taken the plunge, I'll use this exact thread as an example why some of us are reluctant to entertain 72nd scale. The OP lamented the fact there is a lack of 72nd scale detail sets. He may have cited specific sets he'd like to see, but the gist is there isn't enough out there. Well, I posted artwork for a couple of decal sheets I'm going to release and with the exception of one person, there has been ZERO feedback. I also commented that if the current 72nd scale stuff did okay, I would consider doing more. Again, almost no feedback whatsoever. I am well aware that my stuff, as well as Floyd's to an extent, caters to a small niche group and that may very well explain it. However, it still leaves me to wonder if it is simply the subject matter or that some 72nd scale modelers are simply all talk and no action. 

 

Again, we get almost no feedback (positive or negative) when we do announce, or even release stuff in 72nd scale. From our end, it appears there is simply no real interest and we hesitate to continue. On the flip side, I'm happy to see Kursad do as well as he does with his 72nd scale decals and Mark had a great thing going with his line. 

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Dave, I think I was one of the first to purchase your 1/72 KC-130J Battle Herk sheet when you released it.  I am very happy with it, despite not owning a 1/72 C-130J kit.  I do own several 1/72 C-130E/H kits, which I plan to convert to legacy KC-130s.  You know my desires in that vein, I won't blast you here.  So I will wait until a 1/72 Legacy USMC KC-130 sheet is released, preferably from you, preferably with early (white / n.mtl), mid-life (white / lt gull grey), and late (TPS) schemes.  Until then, Semper fi!  Dutch

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1 hour ago, Dave Roof said:

On the flip side, I'm happy to see Kursad do as well as he does with his 72nd scale decals and Mark had a great thing going with his line. 


Somehow those guys (RIP Mark @ Wolfpak) seem made it work. 
 

My comment was mostly directed at Floyd. Each company has it’s own plus and minuses with customers and I appreciate the honesty about the behind the scenes of the business but as we have seen in this thread it’s not all one way, manufacturers need to honest on the front end too.

I am sure to some extent the cost or perceived cost/value plays into the equation. For example a $20 1/48 sheet might seems ok to the end user, a similar priced 1/72 sheet does not. Not saying that the real world cost is not justified from the manufacturers point of view, the consumer may few different. Another while Floyd has what looks to be a great tail rotor but the cost while maybe correct from his POV, it is close to 1/2 the cost of the kit and that makes me pause and it might for others to.

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2 hours ago, fasteagle12 said:

Dave,

If you get those profiles up, I'd probably do a pre-order of 72002.....I'd just like to see what they will look like on the planes..

 

Still working on the placement guides and the UH-1N drawing, but here are the profiles of the aircraft covered on FL72002.

As these were all drawn at different times, they vary in the Pantone colors that were used to represent the FS colors. When the new placement guides are done, they'll all match.

 

 

 

 

No photo description available.

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SSgt Dave,

 

i am am for sure in for 5 sheets of each. The low viz as well as the color version in 1/48th. I would even pre-pay and wait. 

 

With that, i feel bad for 1/72 hobbyists these days as the options for them are getting slimmer. With advent of 3D printing and modern tooling the 1/48th, 1/32nd, and 1/35th scales are jumping off the shelves. 

 

10 - 15 years ago, this was different, you wanted it, it was 1/72 scale and many aircraft were available. So I am a little confused as why the market is soft for 1/72 sales. But you guys know better than I. You’re the manufacturer.   I just find it hard to build in that scale. 

 

R/Gy Dan

 

 

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14 hours ago, YF65_CH53E said:

SSgt Dave,

 

i am am for sure in for 5 sheets of each. The low viz as well as the color version in 1/48th. I would even pre-pay and wait. 

 

With that, i feel bad for 1/72 hobbyists these days as the options for them are getting slimmer. With advent of 3D printing and modern tooling the 1/48th, 1/32nd, and 1/35th scales are jumping off the shelves. 

 

10 - 15 years ago, this was different, you wanted it, it was 1/72 scale and many aircraft were available. So I am a little confused as why the market is soft for 1/72 sales. But you guys know better than I. You’re the manufacturer.   I just find it hard to build in that scale. 

 

R/Gy Dan

 

 

 

Dan,

 

  Almost all of these markings are available in 1/48th scale, just not in the format above. My 1/48 sheets are single aircraft type, multiple options. Well, the pre-orders for these two 1/72 sheets are going remarkably well, so I will continue releasing sheets like this. I have enough art work drawn to cover dozens of sheets!

 

S/F

 

Dave

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3 minutes ago, Dave Roof said:

 

Dan,

 

  Almost all of these markings are available in 1/48th scale, just not in the format above. My 1/48 sheets are single aircraft type, multiple options. Well, the pre-orders for these two 1/72 sheets are going remarkably well, so I will continue releasing sheets like this. I have enough art work drawn to cover dozens of sheets!

 

S/F

 

Dave

Dave,

 

I am going to build all of the aircraft you have on the sheets in both 1/48th as well as 1/72.  So I will go onto your site and order the 1/48th today.  I will also buy the 72001, and 72002 when they are available.  I have a good stash of 1/72 CH-53's as well as MV-22's some times the Marines I build for do want the 1/72 scale for their "I love me wall" vice the 1/48th, so I am super pleased you have done them.  

 

OBTW, the HMH-362, now VMM-362 "Ugly Angels" artwork is just spot on!! Very nicely done.  The VMM-163, "Evil Eyes" are also on the money!!

 

r/Dan

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Dave, my pre-order is in for both sheets. Both sheets look outstanding, can't wait to get my hands on them.

 

Dave Fassett

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