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Way off topic. New Mustang Mach E


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I just spotted a Mach E in a parking lot and had to check it out. To say the least I was not impressed but I am an old fan of the true Mustang. Currently own a 2019 GT which is the fifth Mustang I have owned. To me this is just a Rip off of the Mustang name that Ford is trying to cash in on. An electric four door midsize SUV does not a pony make. What do you guys think about it

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if it was a 2 door then it would make more sense but the Mustang has always been billed as a sportscar of sorts.  Automakers seem in a rush to switch to electric products and I guess Ford is trying to give their electric car a boost in sales by attaching the Mustang name to it.

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I hate appropriating names for marketing purposes like this.  The Mach E may (or may not) be a fine vehicle - but it is NOT a Mustang.

 

This reminds me of when GM imported the Holden Monaro, stuck Pontiac badges on it and called it a GTO.  The Holden was a fine automobile - but it was NOT a GTO.

 

GM did the same thing back in the 80s when they imported a Daewoo (which was a rebadged Opel Kadett) from New Zealand and called it a LeMans.  Unlike the Holden, the Daewoo was a rolling piece of crap.  I got stuck with one as a rental car once and that car barely made it out of the parking lot under its own power...

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I've got an '18 Mustang GT, the 3rd Mustang I've owned, and I'm not wild about them using the Mustang name, but I am not too torn up by it.  It's not like it makes my car different than it is.  I have heard that Ford might branch off Mustang into its own brand, which again, doesn't thrill me, but with cars giving way to SUVs in sales, I can live with the Mach-E being called a Mustang if it helps keep the performance car around.

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I am not that concerned about it. I highly doubt it will taint the Mustang name. Remember the Mustang 2 fiasco? I have had 2 in my life, a '64 1/2 and a '86 GT, SWIMBO currently drives her '13 convertible (triple black) that she absolutely loves. Also to her and my mind the best style year since the '60's. I would also be okay with Ford bringing out a "real" electric powered Mustang in the current body style. Agree with Ken regarding the current move to SUV's and pickups it does make some sense to do a mid size electric vehicle as it appears that is eventually going to be the new norm. Saw the new Bronco at the dealer when I was purchasing my new Explorer ST last month and was somewhat under whelmed, It appears to be aimed at Wrangler owners, which is okay too.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers :cheers:

Itch

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Definitely not a fan of the new Mach E.   I have a '11 GT and absolutely love that car to death.   The Mach E might have had more of a following if they hadn't turned off a bunch of Mustang diehards by slapping the pony badge on it.   Maybe give it it's own new name that starts with an E since most of Ford's SUV's follow this trend.    

Just my 2 cents.

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On 2/8/2021 at 6:09 AM, habu2 said:

I hate appropriating names for marketing purposes like this.  The Mach E may (or may not) be a fine vehicle - but it is NOT a Mustang.

 

This reminds me of when GM imported the Holden Monaro, stuck Pontiac badges on it and called it a GTO.  The Holden was a fine automobile - but it was NOT a GTO.

 

GM did the same thing back in the 80s when they imported a Daewoo (which was a rebadged Opel Kadett) from New Zealand and called it a LeMans.  Unlike the Holden, the Daewoo was a rolling piece of crap.  I got stuck with one as a rental car once and that car barely made it out of the parking lot under its own power...

 

The sad irony of this is that here in Australia GM decided to close down production of the Holden Commodore/ Pontiac G8, Chevy SS and instead import the FWD Opel Insignia from Germany. So after decades of RWD V8 powered sedans GM decides to give Aussies the middle finger with this. And to add more insult to injury they decide not to do the Camaro in RHD while Ford does the Mustang in RHD to fill the gap for them closing down production of the Falcon also. They then decide to import it and convert it for a $30K mark up. In short, GM after using Australia as a base for developing RWD platforms that result in cars like the Camaro we now have nothing but a bunch of rebadged SUVs and a FWD sedan that you only ever see being driven by the Police. RIP Holden.

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14 hours ago, joeltc said:

 

In short, GM after using Australia as a base for developing RWD platforms that result in cars like the Camaro we now have nothing but a bunch of rebadged SUVs and a FWD sedan that you only ever see being driven by the Police. RIP Holden.

 

Not sure this statement makes sense.(to me)  The RWD platform has been a staple here in the states since the beginning of the automotive industry in the early 1900's.  The Camaro was introduced in 1967 as a RWD.   About the only GM I can think of that has Aussie heritage in the States is the re-badged GTO that came here in 2004-2006 and failed miserably.   It was a very powerful LS powered RWD performance car.  Too powerful for the platform.  RWD IRS has been used and refined in the Corvette since the early '60's.

But FWIW, we are seeing the same trend here in the states.  Ford and GM did away with the 4 dr. police cruisers.  The only 4 dr. car left for police use is now the Dodge Charger.  Everything else is SUV's.   I'm waiting to see State Troopers driving Kia Stingers......

Edited by Scott Smith
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GM (and others) have developed 'modular' platforms that can be easily adapted to different body styles under different divisions (Buick, Cadillac, etc.). Can't recall the platform name Holden developed, maybe Alpha?

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Every review I've seen of the Mach E has been positive, and it sounds like it should be a good vehicle.  I think it would be kind of dumb if people didn't buy a good vehicle that met their needs just because they weren't happy about the naming of it - "I really like this vehicle, it does everything I need, and better than any other vehicle and at a good price, but because I don't like that they named it a Mustang, I'm going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a lesser vehicle that doesn't meet my needs as well."

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Been done for many, many years.  The F-Body was the Firebird/Camaro that started in '67.  Quick Google search...In 1926, GM started using A- and B-body platform codes to unite similar chassis types across their multiple makes. ...

Might as well tie world wide testing together to speed up production and lower costs...You know, kind of like Academy re-popping the Revell Phantom with a few new sprues. :rofl:

 

Kind of off topic, but....

I remember when the Hydrogen powered cars were being introduced they all had the same chassis and if one wanted a new car, you could keep your chassis and have a new body dropped in place.  The chassis was the really expensive part with the electrics and suspension.  Just saw a commercial this weekend where it looks like GM is going to do the same with the electric vehicles about to be introduced as well. 

I understand a similar trend has been done here for years with the semi-trucks as well.  Take an older chassis and retro fit with new cab and drive-train to bypass new EPA emissions requirements on new trucks rolling off the assembly line. 

I do know that when Shelby America sells a "new production" Cobra, they sell just the rolling body and the buyer then has to pick out an engine and have it installed by a 3rd party arranged by Shelby.  Owner pays Shelby for their part, writes a separate check to the engine installer.   Again, bypassing EPA and NTSB safety rules.  What fun would a '65 Cobra be with impact resistant bumpers, air bags, padded dash, crumple zones, etc....

Fun fact: Shelby was actually using the local prison labor in Nevada to build these for a while. Thus prisoners were learning an automotive trade.   Someone in the Nevada government put a stop to it since it was outside of what they considered "Prison Industries"

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23 hours ago, joeltc said:

 

The sad irony of this is that here in Australia GM decided to close down production of the Holden Commodore/ Pontiac G8, Chevy SS and instead import the FWD Opel Insignia from Germany. So after decades of RWD V8 powered sedans GM decides to give Aussies the middle finger with this. And to add more insult to injury they decide not to do the Camaro in RHD while Ford does the Mustang in RHD to fill the gap for them closing down production of the Falcon also. They then decide to import it and convert it for a $30K mark up. In short, GM after using Australia as a base for developing RWD platforms that result in cars like the Camaro we now have nothing but a bunch of rebadged SUVs and a FWD sedan that you only ever see being driven by the Police. RIP Holden.

You couldn't give away Pontiacs just prior to them going away. The corporation has a set rule that each product line has to turn a minimum of 15% REIT three years running or it's gone. That's what killed Oldsmobile and Pontiac name plates. In a budget meeting these issues are rarely discussed as that's a corporate no no. But there are some that smack your face and can't be hidden. Remember the $30K Corvette? Well each and every car was taxed a fee to subsidize the Corvette. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac rebelled against this. There were two options. Rebadge the Corvette to a Cadillac, or move it to Canada. The third option was to simply increase the price tag to where it was profitable. Now you got an $80K Corvette! Then there is the constantly evolving CAFE rating! Plus the constantly evolving emissions stat required by the Fed. Those G8 Pontiacs couldn't make either stat on a good day. Yet the G8 was cleaner burning than your power mower or any piece of off road equipment out there. You asked for it and you got it. To take these stats further, a typical four cylinder Malibu driving to L.A. from Detroit will emit less crap in the air than a typical lawn mower will with eight hours usage. But you wanted it! Now everybody wants an electric something or another. I worked for the company that invented hybrid technology, and their equipment makes a Prius like a ten cent Cracker Box toy. Yet they'll tell you upfront that it's at best three years out; right now. Add a couple billion to that and somebody is gonna pay thru the nose. 

 

FWD sedans are gonna be here when the rear wheel drives are at bail a car. There are several good reasons, but the best is manufacturing cost alone. The next big jump is in the batteries that drive a hybrid sedan. You'll be able to change them in your drive way in one afternoon. Think 800 miles on a charge and an optional 800 horse power! Less than a year away.

gary

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10 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

 

Not sure this statement makes sense.(to me)  The RWD platform has been a staple here in the states since the beginning of the automotive industry in the early 1900's.  The Camaro was introduced in 1967 as a RWD.   About the only GM I can think of that has Aussie heritage in the States is the re-badged GTO that came here in 2004-2006 and failed miserably.   It was a very powerful LS powered RWD performance car.  Too powerful for the platform.  RWD IRS has been used and refined in the Corvette since the early '60's.

But FWIW, we are seeing the same trend here in the states.  Ford and GM did away with the 4 dr. police cruisers.  The only 4 dr. car left for police use is now the Dodge Charger.  Everything else is SUV's.   I'm waiting to see State Troopers driving Kia Stingers......

Yes there was the Pontiac GTO that was a rebadged LHD Holden Monaro. It was a two door version of the VT-VZ Commodore sedan that first released in the late 90s. This was Australia's first car with IRS. After that in the 2000s there was the VE Holden Commodore which was the first car to use the Zeta platform. This was later rebadged and made in LHD as the Pontiac G8 and later as the Chev SS sedan which was based on the updated VF Holden Commodore. GM also used this same platform to develop the Camaro when it made its comeback in the 2000s. Though I think the newer ones now are based on a completely different platform again. I honestly think they probably would've has more success if the sold the Holden ute in the USA as maybe the El Camino. But now its all pretty irrelevant since we'll all be driving EVs in the near future anyway.

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Ahhh, the Pontiac G8.  Big cult following with those.  I think because of the “non performance “ badging of an unknown car.   First time I saw one I was blown away.  
I still like the Holden GTO.  High school  buddy had a ‘69 GTO.   Lots of high speed fun in that one! 

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5 hours ago, joeltc said:

Yes there was the Pontiac GTO that was a rebadged LHD Holden Monaro. It was a two door version of the VT-VZ Commodore sedan that first released in the late 90s. This was Australia's first car with IRS. After that in the 2000s there was the VE Holden Commodore which was the first car to use the Zeta platform. This was later rebadged and made in LHD as the Pontiac G8 and later as the Chev SS sedan which was based on the updated VF Holden Commodore. GM also used this same platform to develop the Camaro when it made its comeback in the 2000s. Though I think the newer ones now are based on a completely different platform again. I honestly think they probably would've has more success if the sold the Holden ute in the USA as maybe the El Camino. But now its all pretty irrelevant since we'll all be driving EVs in the near future anyway.

the current Camero is really nothing but a Cadillac CTS. There have been four variations of that platform, and three we also Cadillac CTS. The odd one was the convertable, and yet Cadillac actually announced a CTS convertable. The station wagon is very uncommon, and have maybe seen three at the most. Popularity for station wagons converted into pick up trucks has died a hard death. People want real trucks. The Honda is a platform is it's own and dying a slow death (sad cause it's really a nice little truck). The last successful one was the Subaru Brat, and it was really a turd. Yet some folks loved them till they had to be worked on (often). Rumor has it that we'll see a Suburban built on the Canyon frame with short wheel base. I know they've had it on the test tracks for a couple years off and on. Then there's the two seat Camero concept car that some are hot for. Chrysler is supposed to be looking at a Barracuda convertable, and there actually have been images of a couple. I know the Challenger is easily the fastest car you can but under a $150K, and are driving insurance companies mad. Myself, I'm waiting for the Cadillac mid engine sports car to show up. Can't afford one, but I can drool. The C8 Corvette platform is basically this car with a V8 engine. The Cadillac makes it look and feel like a turd, and I've sat in it and heard that V12 engine run (740 hp). Looks like it came right out of Italy. 

gary

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21 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

You couldn't give away Pontiacs just prior to them going away. The corporation has a set rule that each product line has to turn a minimum of 15% REIT three years running or it's gone. That's what killed Oldsmobile and Pontiac name plates. In a budget meeting these issues are rarely discussed as that's a corporate no no. But there are some that smack your face and can't be hidden. Remember the $30K Corvette? Well each and every car was taxed a fee to subsidize the Corvette. Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick and Cadillac rebelled against this. There were two options. Rebadge the Corvette to a Cadillac, or move it to Canada. The third option was to simply increase the price tag to where it was profitable. Now you got an $80K Corvette! Then there is the constantly evolving CAFE rating! Plus the constantly evolving emissions stat required by the Fed. Those G8 Pontiacs couldn't make either stat on a good day. Yet the G8 was cleaner burning than your power mower or any piece of off road equipment out there. You asked for it and you got it. To take these stats further, a typical four cylinder Malibu driving to L.A. from Detroit will emit less crap in the air than a typical lawn mower will with eight hours usage. But you wanted it! Now everybody wants an electric something or another. I worked for the company that invented hybrid technology, and their equipment makes a Prius like a ten cent Cracker Box toy. Yet they'll tell you upfront that it's at best three years out; right now. Add a couple billion to that and somebody is gonna pay thru the nose. 

 

FWD sedans are gonna be here when the rear wheel drives are at bail a car. There are several good reasons, but the best is manufacturing cost alone. The next big jump is in the batteries that drive a hybrid sedan. You'll be able to change them in your drive way in one afternoon. Think 800 miles on a charge and an optional 800 horse power! Less than a year away.

gary

What’s your source for this? I’d like to read more about these batteries.

Edited by fulcrum1
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4 hours ago, Mr.Happy said:


Not a fan of the Mach E Mustang. 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.7eab1eb4f63c91bf263fab7b22769d56.jpeg

This is quite possibly one of the most boomer things i have seen posted here tbh. 🙂

1 hour ago, fulcrum1 said:

What’s your source for this? I’d like to read more about these batteries.

Yeah, i would like to know more as well because it doesn't make much sense what he is writing. How would the batteries in a "hybrid sedan" be any different than from a pure EV? I assume 800 miles of range is with ICE since he seems to be talking about hybrids. And charge in one afternoon doesnt say much at all, since that depends on the battery pack size and throughput of the charger. Neither is it really needed as it is better and more economical anyway to charge overnight. Hybrids are just for manufacturers that are unable to produce compelling and efficient pure EV's and are a temporarily bandaid at best. End game is EV's either way.

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Berkut,

 

What can I say, I’m a Muscle Car fan and I miss Formula 1 when they had the V-12’s😓
 

However I’ll still watch it to this day.:punk:

 

Just a thought 💭

 I do think that Natural Gas ️ vehicles should be considered because they are a cleaner burning fuel source. Perhaps for the transportation industry; UPS, Fed X, Amazon, and other shipping companies might consider this as an alternative to electric vehicles. 
 

What a lot of people forget is that coal is a large component to electricity. Coal is more of a pollutant than Natural Gas. 
 

One thing is for certain, this is a subject that will burn up a lot of energy I’m sure. :rofl:


I hope we can continue this conversation / subject  with respect for one another believes. 

 

Stay safe and try to stay warm in the frozen tundra that is your beautiful Norway 🇳🇴 
 

Take care,

 

Mr.Happy 
 


 

 

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2 hours ago, fulcrum1 said:

What’s your source for this? I’d like to read more about these batteries.

I worked for GM in a non automotive systems. Yet I've been inside most auto plants in the country at one time or another (including Honda and Toyota). Warren Tech was where I saw the Cadillac sports car, and the race cars being built. The battery quote was from an announcement back last fall (made public), and the technology is state of the art all the way thru. The initial release will come from Cadillac in a couple SUV's and at least one sedan. Then Chevy will unvail their new electric drive pick up truck (full sized) with a horse power option that could go as high as 800hp. The batteries look like two beer cans end to end and literally snap into a holder like a fuse. You can add batteries for more power or greater mileage on a charge. The real plus is not only an electric drive, but the ability to do a full charge in less than eight hours off 220 house current. 110 electricity will take about 50% longer. G.M. literally gave LG a plant in Ohio to tool up and build their batteries for them, and they've been working on it day and night for close to six months. Should be getting close to start up. After that my sources have dried up as I'm retired and have very little interest in the auto markets anyway. 

 

The only reason I saw that Cadillac sports car was that every Tuesday morning I had to fly up to Warren Park Michigan for a seminar on robotics in a form that was way beyond anything anybody have ever attempted in the past. I saw NASCAR cars that were two and three years out. Road race Corvettes and Cadillacs. Engine test cells with engines like nothing I've ever seen before. Still there were other areas that took an act of Congress to even walk thru (I didn't). The one place I wanted to visit was the Warren Tank Plant. Had the invite, but never the time. I've been to Lima several times, and just wanted to compare the two.

gary

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40 minutes ago, Mr.Happy said:

Berkut,

 

What can I say, I’m a Muscle Car fan and I miss Formula 1 when they had the V-12’s😓
 

However I’ll still watch it to this day.:punk:

 

Just a thought 💭

 I do think that Natural Gas ️ vehicles should be considered because they are a cleaner burning fuel source. Perhaps for the transportation industry; UPS, Fed X, Amazon, and other shipping companies might consider this as an alternative to electric vehicles. 
 

What a lot of people forget is that coal is a large component to electricity. Coal is more of a pollutant than Natural Gas. 
 

One thing is for certain, this is a subject that will burn up a lot of energy I’m sure. :rofl:


I hope we can continue this conversation / subject  with respect for one another believes. 

 

Stay safe and try to stay warm in the frozen tundra that is your beautiful Norway 🇳🇴 
 

Take care,

 

Mr.Happy 
 


 

 

Hehe, good you didnt take my "jab" to be mean spirited (wasn't mean like it!), just found it slightly funny. 🙂

 

Natural gas is underrated agree with that, especially for cargo ships. That and planes won't be going electric in a while so LNG is second best choice for sure especially since ships run on bunker fuel which is just awful. In longer term would be feasible to produce LNG (methane) through Sabatier process as well so win-win if one can get methane leaks under control. Oh well, getting wildly off-topic since i don't have a dog in the fight whether Mach-E is a Mustang or not. 😛 My take is that Mustang just like any other branding names is just that - branding name. Different people associate different things with a brand. 🤷‍♂️

 

And indeed Norway is quite frozen this winter with loads of snow but i love it, winters in the past 10 years or so haven't been quite as good. Hope all is well in Texas as well and stay safe. 🙂

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1 hour ago, Berkut said:

This is quite possibly one of the most boomer things i have seen posted here tbh. 🙂

Yeah, i would like to know more as well because it doesn't make much sense what he is writing. How would the batteries in a "hybrid sedan" be any different than from a pure EV? I assume 800 miles of range is with ICE since he seems to be talking about hybrids. And charge in one afternoon doesnt say much at all, since that depends on the battery pack size and throughput of the charger. Neither is it really needed as it is better and more economical anyway to charge overnight. Hybrids are just for manufacturers that are unable to produce compelling and efficient pure EV's and are a temporarily bandaid at best. End game is EV's either way.

I'd start out by say there are really hundreds of different concepts in batteries out there. Technology is extremely guarded. But there's a lot more to that. In the past everybody had a problem with heat (think Teslas burning up). Then the idea of the ideal operating temperature was put in place (only one brand did this). This is where you cool the battery or actually heat the battery. Will not tell you how. Anybody can build a five hundred amp hour battery, but making it live is another idea. Then there was (or is) the safety issue of the battery pack in a crash. Only one is acceptable here, but also a very expensive battery pack. (it's only your life after all). But batteries are on a slice in the pie. There are three basic motors used. The best id an AC pulse code servo motor, but has a major down fall. Heat!  Dosn't get hot running, but gets real hot setting still. There's standard servo motor that works well, but also sucks a lot of power (most use this). then of course you could use a standard 12 or 24 volt electric motor, but who would want to? There's a fourth generation, but know very little about it. Think G.M. , Ford, and Chrysler are all working on this one together. Yet all this is nothing but a stepping stone for what they really want. That's a hydrogen fuel cell 

gary

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6 minutes ago, ChesshireCat said:

The real plus is not only an electric drive, but the ability to do a full charge in less than eight hours off 220 house current. 110 electricity will take about 50% longer. G.M. literally gave LG a plant in Ohio to tool up and build their batteries for them, and they've been working on it day and night for close to six months.

 

gary

Still don't understand what is so special about that? The important thing for charge rate is the C rating/factor which is a factor between power of charging (or discharging) of a battery and its rated energy capacity. So lets say a 100kWh pack that uses 8 hours to charge will be charging at ~12,5kW or a C rate which is just 0,125. A friend of mine has been charging his Model S at like you describe for many years now, at 240V and ~16kW so it isnt exactly high tech or new tech. Chances are your mobile phone is charging at a higher C rate than what you are describing.

 

Not to mention if one uses charging stations then one circumvents the charger built (which is just a rectifier) in the car. And at those one can get C rates of 3.5 or so, at 250kW+ charging power. For discharging of a battery the C-rates are well above 6.

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