habu2 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) Most everybody who is/was COVID symptomatic had issues, many had serious issues. Many had fatal issues. I have not heard of anyone anywhere having a fatal reaction to the COVID vaccine. . Edited February 14, 2021 by habu2 Link to post Share on other sites
Winnie Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Waco said: Define “issues.” Side effects are generally mild to moderate, and short term. 24-48 hours later, they are largely gone. They are also roughly equivalent to the side effects common to a wide range of vaccinations: injection site pain, low grade fever/chills, fatigue....etc. Almost all those who get these adverse reactions are quickly over them. It’s still better than getting COVID. Exactly what I had, not even bad enough to claim "not fit for duty" and I'm at 36 hours and symptoms are abating. Link to post Share on other sites
Benner Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 1:56 PM, GW8345 said: And I think you need to check your figures, in the three wars you mentioned the US lost 580,124 people (military casualties), according to the below website the death toll from the virus is currently at 487,701; a difference of 92,423, we got a ways to go before we hit the figure you are saying we are " Just a thought without looking up actual dates / times, US involvement in in World War 1 was ~1 year, World War 2 5 years, Vietnam, 10+ years. So in 16+ years of combat, The US lost 580,124 people you say. 1 year of Covid = 487,701 ? just looking at these numbers, that 92,423 difference does not seem far away and may be rapidly approaching. Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 I don't want to quote anybody, because I'm not looking for a fight, but there are a few points I'd like to make. While no deaths have been blamed on the vaccine, lots of recently vaccinated frail and elderly have died from the very same side-effects that the vaccine causes. The deaths have just not been directly attributed to the vaccine itself. Several people have had adverse and life-threatening allergic reactions to the vaccine, so some are at risk by getting it. This isn't a problem for most though. This is a new type of vaccination. Most previous vaccinations use a safe version of a virus or protein that causes your immune system to activate and produce an immune system response. This vaccination, an mRNA vaccine, causes you to produce a viral protein that triggers your immune system. It's a relatively new technology and the long term side-effects aren't known yet. There are aspects of this new technology that may be a concern, but if it works out it may help revolutionize the medical industry and hopefully help deal with more than just viruses (read: cancer!). The Covid vaccines are designed to keep you from getting moderate to severe symptoms but don't necessarily immunize you or prevent you from spreading the virus. So all this talk of moral duty to get vaccinated to protect others may well be wrong. I say "may" because there have been no conclusive studies to prove that getting the vaccine prevents you from becoming infected and spreading the virus. Lets hope that that changes and it's proven to help stop the spread, otherwise you're just protecting yourself. In which case, many of those vaccinated may end up spreading even more as asymptomatic carriers than if they had symptoms and self-quarantined, and that may lead to further mutations that might be even worse. I will eventually get the shot, though the longer it is delayed the safer I will feel. No, I'm not worried about the microchip implant, the government tracking of every aspect of my life or the vaccine altering my genetic code (Stepford husband to the deep-state). I'll just feel safer when more conclusive studies are done (assuming the fake news MSM tells us the truth). I do fear that Steve may be right in that "C-19 will be with us forever as it changes and keeps coming back as a new variant" and fear that we might become $laves to the medical deep state (which control the political deep state)... Recent customer at Holiday Inn Express. Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Zactoman said: <....> While no deaths have been blamed on the vaccine, lots of recently vaccinated frail and elderly have died from the very same side-effects that the vaccine causes. The deaths have just not been directly attributed to the vaccine itself. <....> Do you have a source for that? Or did you overhear that in the Holiday Inn Express' lobby? Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 31 minutes ago, ChernayaAkula said: Do you have a source for that? Or did you overhear that in the Holiday Inn Express' lobby? I have not bookmarked sources, just read several accounts over time. US CDC lists 1,107 reports of death ( https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html ) but does not necessarily categorize them as frail or elderly. This is something I have gathered having read multiple reports. I recall reading reports from various locations in the US and Europe including Germany, France and Norway (possibly others) where elderly, frail and those with comorbidities died after receiving the vaccine. The gist was that they may have died whether they received the vaccine or not, but they didn't have data to back that. I have elderly relatives with various severe medical conditions that I would not approve of them getting the shot because the short-term side effects might be fatal for them. Their doctors concur. Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Zactoman said: Several people have had adverse and life-threatening allergic reactions to the vaccine, so some are at risk by getting it. This isn't a problem for most though. My understanding is that allergic reactions to the vaccine occur within 15-30 minutes after injection. At the large* drive-through vaccination sites here (north Texas) you go to a ~30 minute waiting queue after receiving your shot so that medical personnel can immediately attend to any reactions that do occur. * large here is several thousand injections per day. The hub at TMS can do 10,000/day: https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/texas-motor-speedway-covid-19-vaccination-hub-to-vaccinate-10000-people-a-day/2538890/ Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) On 2/13/2021 at 8:34 PM, A-10 LOADER said: I'm not looking to pick a fight with anyone on this subject. I can only say my opinion on why I won't be getting the shot. I already have enough health issues from my military service that cause me to be unemployable. I'm just not willing to take the chance and add to my issues and be an even bigger burden on my family. I'm finished commenting on this subject. Steve Serious honest question. Considering your health issues aren't you far more worried about getting a novel virus which is known to kill those with especially weak health at an average rate of 2% (much much higher for those with bad health) vs getting a vaccine which kills at a rate... checks notes, basically non existing? Considering the balance of risk one of these options seems much better than the other one. 15 hours ago, Zactoman said: While no deaths have been blamed on the vaccine, lots of recently vaccinated frail and elderly have died from the very same side-effects that the vaccine causes. The deaths have just not been directly attributed to the vaccine itself. Several people have had adverse and life-threatening allergic reactions to the vaccine, so some are at risk by getting it. This isn't a problem for most though. One has to be careful with wording and statements on this because this kind of data is very very easy to take out of context. And if this thread is anything to go by ("2% doesnt sound too deadly to me") average people have very very poor understanding of numbers and statistics in general. I think you did a good job but just a word of caution. For example here in Norway it was reported a few weeks that 13 (iirc, pluss or minus few cases) people died shortly after getting their shots. This was at nursing homes for those that are especially in bad health shape (short term hospice). Those 13 cases are just under investigation, doesn't necessarily mean they died as a result of the vaccine itself, they were in extremely frail condition from before. Now, there is an argument to be made whether it is worth the risk to vaccinate those especially frail but that is up to the medical community and seems to me they have made they correct risk assessment. That 13 number made its rounds around the world without context and it was automatically attributed to the vaccine. Another important number that was ignored however is that on average 400 people die in these short-term nursing homes per week due to their frail health, from "natural" causes, completely without a scary vaccine. 15 hours ago, Zactoman said: The Covid vaccines are designed to keep you from getting moderate to severe symptoms but don't necessarily immunize you or prevent you from spreading the virus. So all this talk of moral duty to get vaccinated to protect others may well be wrong. I say "may" because there have been no conclusive studies to prove that getting the vaccine prevents you from becoming infected and spreading the virus. Lets hope that that changes and it's proven to help stop the spread, otherwise you're just protecting yourself. In which case, many of those vaccinated may end up spreading even more as asymptomatic carriers than if they had symptoms and self-quarantined, and that may lead to further mutations that might be even worse. It isn't quite as simple as that. Many vaccines, in fact most, don't immunize you from spreading per say. The holy grail is of course a vaccine that both protects you against getting sick from whatever your are vaccinated against and being a spreader. However, one can achieve herd immunity without vaccine doing the heavy lifting on the spreader part per say. This kind of immunity is called "effective immunity" and it also a path to achieve herd immunity. Sterilizing immunity achieves stopping the spread, but as said, it is extremely rare. If you can't get sick, you are less likely to spread the decease and besides it is somewhat of a moot point. If there is a high percentage of herd immunity, chances are, if you have the virus and do successfully spread it the person you spread it to is vaccinated as well meaning he/she cant get sick. So no matter how one spins it, whether the vaccine does or doesn't have a direct spreading curbing effect; it is a path to herd immunity and as such there is a direct link to make an argument it is a moral duty even without sterilizing immunity component. Now, on top of that, there is some promising data coming in that the current vaccines already do have potential to lower transmission. As you wrote however there is no conclusive studies yet but this is work in progress. Quote They found a 67 per cent reduction in positive swabs among people who received a single dose of the two-jab Oxford-AstraZeneca regime. This does not mean transmission was reduced by two-thirds, Professor Lewin says. "But we now know that the amount of virus in the nose is associated with transmission — more virus in the nose, higher likelihood for transmission," she says. Source; https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-02-05/covid-19-vaccines-do-they-prevent-coronavirus-transmission/13121348 Quote A recent pre-print paper (not yet peer-reviewed) found that the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine reduces viral loads, a key marker that shapes how readily the virus can spread, four-fold between 12 and 28 days after the first dose. It’s a promising result, but it’s based on less than 1,200 patients and needs more validation. + Quote Moderna, for example, screened its trial participants for SARS-CoV-2 between the first and second doses of its vaccine, finding that two-thirds fewer people in the vaccine group tested positive for the virus compared to the placebo, according to the company’s briefing to the Food and Drug Administration in December. It suggests that some asymptomatic infections start to be prevented after the first dose. During the clinical trials for the Covid-19 vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford, which has not been approved in the US, researchers tested participants more frequently. An early analysis showed that the vaccine may be 59 percent effective at stopping asymptomatic infection. Source; https://www.vox.com/22241572/covid-19-vaccine-mask-moderna-pfizer-johnson So in short, yes, it isn't proven but the early results are promising. And this in on top of the effective immunity which directly contributes to not getting sick and sneezing/coughing as the result of the COVID and hence removing a big pathway to spread it. Lets say for the sake of the argument it is proven in trials that the vaccines on average slow down the spread by 50%. That means if i am vaccinated and do get the virus i am 50% less likely to spread the decease. The the chances that that person spreads it again is at 25% (0.5*0.5) And the third person is at just 12.5% to spread it again. I will take that, together with the effective immunization, any day of the week compared to not vaccinate at all. PS; IIRC it took Moderna just 2 days to produce the first vaccine candidate after the DNA sequence was released by the Chinese. mRNA is some really really impressive technology. Edited February 15, 2021 by Berkut Forgot to add that it was 400/week. Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 21 hours ago, ARCAccount#1 said: Pfizer and Moderna vaccines see 47 and 19 cases of anaphylaxis out of ~10 million and ~7.5 million doses. With numbers like these, I didn't hesitate to get the Moderna shot when I did. Worth it. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776557?guestAccessKey=b2690d5a-5e0b-4d0b-8bcb-e4ba5bc96218&utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_content=tfl&utm_term=021221 The VA has been giving them out for a couple weeks anyway, and they seem to be having problems over there. Only reason I know about the VA is that I'm in contact almost daily with people going there. Some are as minor as a very sore arm and at least two or three went into pneumonia (all these were nearly 80 years old). Locally the population seems be better at handling the issues. Some (mostly city employees) have had little problems if any at all. Yet others have had some issues that got them thru the normal venues. We hear of a third and maybe a fourth variant comming around, and I'll wait to see what happens with these new ones. gary Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, Berkut said: Serious honest question. Considering your health issues aren't you far more worried about getting a novel virus which is known to kill those with especially weak health at an average rate of 2% (much much higher for those with bad health) vs getting a vaccine which kills at a rate... checks notes, basically non existing? Considering the balance of risk one of these options seems much better than the other one. One has to be careful with wording and statements on this because this kind of data is very very easy to take out of context. And if this thread is anything to go by ("2% doesnt sound too deadly to me") average people have very very poor understanding of numbers and statistics in general. I think you did a good job but just a word of caution. For example here in Norway it was reported a few weeks that 13 (iirc, pluss or minus few cases) people died shortly after getting their shots. This was at nursing homes for those that are especially in bad health shape (short term hospice). Those 13 cases are just under investigation, doesn't necessarily mean they died as a result of the vaccine itself, they were in extremely frail condition from before. Now, there is an argument to be made whether it is worth the risk to vaccinate those especially frail but that is up to the medical community and seems to me they have made they correct risk assessment. That 13 number made its rounds around the world without context and it was automatically attributed to the vaccine. Another important number that was ignored however is that on average 400 people die in these short-term nursing homes due to their frail health, from "natural" causes, completely without a scary vaccine. It isn't quite as simple as that. Many vaccines, in fact most, don't immunize you from spreading per say. The holy grail is of course a vaccine that both protects you against getting sick from whatever your are vaccinated against and being a spreader. However, one can achieve herd immunity without vaccine doing the heavy lifting on the spreader part per say. This kind of immunity is called "effective immunity" and it also a path to achieve herd immunity. Sterilizing immunity achieves stopping the spread, but as said, it is extremely rare. If you can't get sick, you are less likely to spread the decease and besides it is somewhat of a moot point. If there is a high percentage of herd immunity, chances are, if you have the virus and do successfully spread it the person you spread it to is vaccinated as well meaning he/she cant get sick. So no matter how one spins it, whether the vaccine does or doesn't have a direct spreading curbing effect; it is a path to herd immunity and as such there is a direct link to make an argument it is a moral duty even without sterilizing immunity component. Now, on top of that, there is some promising data coming in that the current vaccines already do have potential to lower transmission. As you wrote however there is no conclusive studies yet but this is work in progress. Source; https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021-02-05/covid-19-vaccines-do-they-prevent-coronavirus-transmission/13121348 + Source; https://www.vox.com/22241572/covid-19-vaccine-mask-moderna-pfizer-johnson So in short, yes, it isn't proven but the early results are promising. And this in on top of the effective immunity which directly contributes to not getting sick and sneezing/coughing as the result of the COVID and hence removing a big pathway to spread it. Lets say for the sake of the argument it is proven in trials that the vaccines on average slow down the spread by 50%. That means if i am vaccinated and do get the virus i am 50% less likely to spread the decease. The the chances that that person spreads it again is at 25% (0.5*0.5) And the third person is at just 12.5% to spread it again. I will take that, together with the effective immunization, any day of the week compared to not vaccinate at all. PS; IIRC it took Moderna just 2 days to produce the first vaccine candidate after the DNA sequence was released by the Chinese. mRNA is some really really impressive technology. you post is most interesting to say the least. I knew of three deaths that came right after getting the first shot. OK; I can live with that. Now you state 13 deaths in your nation. Still not horrible but concerning. Back in the fall of the year, I was very sick, and it all started from a series of yellow jacket stings on my face. I'm very allergic to them, and got five or six at the sametime. This tends to really weaken my immune system, and then really got sick. Thought I had COVID-19, and went to the doctor. He ran three or four tests, and said you don't have it. Had I had it, he said they'd kill it in two weeks. He then told me to expect to be very sick for a month or two, and I managed to string it out three months going from one virus to another. Mine were flue like, but still different. The good thing was that I cut three inches off my belly!!! The bad part was that after I started feeling better; I got kidney stones!!!! They are worse than getting shot, and mine were on the small side. Just a pain in the rear when the only to talk about is your latest ailments! gary Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 13 hours ago, Zactoman said: No, I'm not worried about the microchip implant, the government tracking of every aspect of my life or the vaccine altering my genetic code (Stepford husband to the deep-state). I'll just feel safer when more conclusive studies are done (assuming the fake news MSM tells us the truth). From what I understand each syringe has the microchip on the outside of the syringe to track all the syringes. The story about a nano technology implant being in the actual vaccine and small enough to go through the needle sounds quite a bit beyond our current technology. Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 I do admit I am interested in the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. No one has died from covid after taking it and it is only 1 shot and is easier to transport. For me the goal is to stop deaths or serious illness. It does not prevent the illness as well as the other vaccines, but it's other attributes seem appealing. Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 2 hours ago, SBARC said: From what I understand each syringe has the microchip on the outside of the syringe to track all the syringes. The vaccine isn’t distributed in syringes, it is shipped in small (~10 ml) bottles. Syringes are shipped in bulk. Watch the news and you will see syringes stuck in vaccine bottles and the plunger pulled to fill the syringe. The vaccine bottles are “tracked” via barcodes or QR codes just like all assays, reagents and patient samples are tracked in hospitals and labs. Ask me how I know..... 😉 Link to post Share on other sites
SBARC Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 3 hours ago, habu2 said: The vaccine isn’t distributed in syringes, it is shipped in small (~10 ml) bottles. Syringes are shipped in bulk. Watch the news and you will see syringes stuck in vaccine bottles and the plunger pulled to fill the syringe. The vaccine bottles are “tracked” via barcodes or QR codes just like all assays, reagents and patient samples are tracked in hospitals and labs. Ask me how I know..... 😉 This is good to know. Thanks. I won't have my chance to get the vaccine until the fall I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 I just recieved my second Sinofarm shot ie booster...no side effects,just some joint pain and felt sleepy yesterday. Here where I live we had few shipments of Sinofarm and anybody can get vaccinated,you have to show up at a vaccination station and thats it... You can choose online what type of vaccine you want but Sputnik V and Pfizer have not arrived in great quantities so you have to wait longer,and I wanted to get vacinated asap so went with Sinofarm. I get fly vaccine every year and I dont bother if I will get inserterd with chip :))))) P Link to post Share on other sites
Petarvu Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 2:30 PM, Berkut said: This is such an alpha and manly take that simply by reading this i grew my beard additional 20 cm. 😂😂 Link to post Share on other sites
fasteagle12 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/13/2021 at 12:07 PM, fasteagle12 said: Back to the original question....I get my 2nd shot tomorrow.. I'll let you know how it comes out... Had my 2nd shot yesterday (Pfizer) and other than a sore arm and maybe a slight headache, I seem to be fine. Link to post Share on other sites
Berkut Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 14 hours ago, ChesshireCat said: you post is most interesting to say the least. I knew of three deaths that came right after getting the first shot. OK; I can live with that. Now you state 13 deaths in your nation. Still not horrible but concerning. gary Again though, the important take away here is that the vaccines were given to old and very frail people and that regardless of a vaccine 400 of them die in those short term nursing homes, per week. One could probably give an injection of water and the results would be about the same. There is no indications whatsoever the current vaccines are worrisome for those that aren't extremely frail. And if one is - i would argue getting the virus is far more dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites
BKG Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Not available yet...hopefully soon!🤧 Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 11:26 AM, Dave Roof said: No, and have no intention on getting one. Don't get flu shots either. Dave, I quit the flue shot thing many years ago as they are nothing but a crap shoot. Everytime I got the shot, I got sick as a dog. Always a variant that wasn't covered with the shot. They have quit giving me pneumonia shots (why?), and I've had pneumonia at least twice. That's one I really do need and want. The COVID-19 shot is still up in the air with me. I don't trust it, and I know where I gotta go to get it is the bug zoo! I'm more worried about the Agent Orange tag along diseases than I am about anything else. I'm one of the one percent or less guys that have the odd ball symptoms. Still after three episodes I know now when it's knocking at my door. It was here a couple weeks back, and gave it the finger. I've been around several guys that got Covid-19, and most were laid up a week and a half with another two weeks of isolation. Your much younger than I am, and you'd just walk thru it like it was another case of the flue. (actually the regular flue kills more people than COVID-19 could dream of). I'm more worried about pneumonia than anything else. gary Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/11/2021 at 6:35 PM, Steve N said: My wife (nursing home nurse) got her second shot last week, and had nasty reactions to both. Her doc figures it's because of her fibromyalgia, which is an autoimmune disorder. We both had Covid last summer. I just had a nasty cough for a couple weeks and extreme fatigue for a few days, but she ended up in the hospital for over a week. SN that's another reason to avoid them for some of us. I was on steroids for a couple years, and they virtually killed my immune system. Taking a flue shot alone is now a no no (per doctor's orders I might add). I've been off the steroids for five years now and had the jump start steroids four times. These are the ones the football players are after. I finally said no mass! Gained twelve pounds with every shot, and that's how they know they were working. My immune system is working pretty good now, but could actually be even better with another steroid shot. If the doctor would let me date his nurse, I might opt for one! A real pain in the neck getting up there in the years glt Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 9:03 AM, Dave Roof said: Did you ever get a vaccine for H1N1? How about SARS/MERS or Anthrax? Uncle Sam gave me that bad boy three times in one years. The second worst shot ever (Plague was the worst) gary Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/12/2021 at 2:24 PM, GW8345 said: I can answer that for you Dave, Because in some folks minds anyone with dissenting opinions or points of view must be ridiculed and shut down because they have never learned that not everyone thinks the way they do. They can't imagine anyone with differing opinions and views because they live in an echo chamber and have never been around anyone who doesn't think like they do. It use to be people would respect other's opinions and would agree to disagree when they had different views. Now a days, some think that everyone has to think the way they do and if you don't, then they think they have the right (and duty) to ridicule and demean you because they have never been taught to accept differing opinions/POV. Those who think that way are on full display in this thread. With that said, this is my last post in this thread, may you have a blessed day. can't find the LIKE BUTTON! gary Link to post Share on other sites
ChesshireCat Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/13/2021 at 11:08 AM, ChernayaAkula said: The situation is different now, though. No one is being forced. The vaccines are safe. Weaponized Anthrax was a probability. The Corona pandemic is already in full swing. And it may well stay in full swing or turn into a recurring event if we don't act NOW. not completely safe. 13 people died in Norway after receiving the shots gary Link to post Share on other sites
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