serendip Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 Hi all, I've just got a Hasegawa '48th F-8E. Does anyone know if the aircraft were ever parked with the wing down? I would guess it's slaved to flap position in some way? Thanks all. Also I'm looking for some lovely colourful decals - all help there would be appreciated also. Thanks again, Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 What about that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted February 18, 2021 Share Posted February 18, 2021 (edited) Wing can be down when it is parked. When the wing goes up the leading and trailing flaps go down even if the wings are folded. There is a good reference in this forum here. Geoff M Edited February 18, 2021 by Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 Every time I see an F-8 I can't get it into my head how such a tiny little piece of metal holds the plane in the air (I know, a larger proportion of weight hangs on the aft wing hinges, but still...)... J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 12 hours ago, JeffreyK said: Every time I see an F-8 I can't get it into my head how such a tiny little piece of metal holds the plane in the air (I know, a larger proportion of weight hangs on the aft wing hinges, but still...)... J Well Jeff, the F-104 and F-5 spring to mind as far as wing area goes or am am missing your point and do you mean the forward wing jack? Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 19, 2021 Author Share Posted February 19, 2021 1 minute ago, serendip said: Well Jeff, the F-104 and F-5 spring to mind as far as wing area goes or am am missing your point and do you mean the forward wing jack? Marc. Did you get your B-52 yet and what do you think (completely off topic I know). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I believe he was referring to the wing jack and the fact that the wing was being held on by just that one attachment point at the front. Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Geoff M said: I believe he was referring to the wing jack and the fact that the wing was being held on by just that one attachment point at the front. Geoff M Yes indeed. And that that it's actually a universal joint, so not just one, but two eyelets joint with preciously little surface area. I guess the margins must have been slim. Confidence in calculations.. 🙂 J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/18/2021 at 6:36 PM, Geoff M said: Wing can be down when it is parked. When the wing goes up the leading and trailing flaps go down even if the wings are folded. There is a good reference in this forum here. Geoff M Thanks Geoff and thank's for the link. I read the post but can't really find the circumstances in which the wing would be down on the ground. When the slats and flaps are in bit when would that be the case? Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 The reason the wing would be down on the ground is so that nothing can go into the opening if the wing was up. Here is one with the wing down: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6ea44fa302f2dcea_large Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 55 minutes ago, Finn said: The reason the wing would be down on the ground is so that nothing can go into the opening if the wing was up. Here is one with the wing down: http://www.gstatic.com/hostedimg/6ea44fa302f2dcea_large Jari Thanks Jari, so a pretty standard thing to do, I guess. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 By design, under almost all flight conditions, the wing lift (center of pressure) is aft of the hinge point. The actuator is actually holding the wing up, not holding it on. As far as I know, there have been no incidents of the wing coming off because of over exuberant maneuvering; the hinge points have failed first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: By design, under almost all flight conditions, the wing lift (center of pressure) is aft of the hinge point. The actuator is actually holding the wing up, not holding it on. As far as I know, there have been no incidents of the wing coming off because of over exuberant maneuvering; the hinge points have failed first. Does this refer to the front actuator hinge or the rear wing hinge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 Here is one that the wing came off, after a bad cat launch and going over the side: http://www.vfp62.com/mishaps.html Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 There were rumors that the wing was partially lifting during hard maneuvering but Vought and NAVY engineers said "no way". it was proven so after cameras were installed on an airframe. The existing single latch was beefed up and a second added to the other side of the airframe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tomthegrom Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 11 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: By design, under almost all flight conditions, the wing lift (center of pressure) is aft of the hinge point. The actuator is actually holding the wing up, not holding it on. As far as I know, there have been no incidents of the wing coming off because of over exuberant maneuvering; the hinge points have failed first. It may have happened at least once. In the book "fast movers" the chapter about f8 driver John Pirate Nichols. He talks about TR Schwartz and Beaver Heiss coming Into the break for "close abeam club" break. The wing seperated from the fuselage and the fuselage landed in a baseball diamond. Vought later estimated that as the wing seperated rhe fuselage pulled 176g, instantly killing the pilot. Sad stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 22 hours ago, habu2 said: Does this refer to the front actuator hinge or the rear wing hinge? The pivot point of the wing itself Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 12 hours ago, tomthegrom said: It may have happened at least once. In the book "fast movers" the chapter about f8 driver John Pirate Nichols. He talks about TR Schwartz and Beaver Heiss coming Into the break for "close abeam club" break. The wing seperated from the fuselage and the fuselage landed in a baseball diamond. Vought later estimated that as the wing seperated rhe fuselage pulled 176g, instantly killing the pilot. Sad stuff. Beaver was killed when the wing’s pivot fittings failed in tension due to overload (the wing was down). 21 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: There were rumors that the wing was partially lifting during hard maneuvering but Vought and NAVY engineers said "no way". it was proven so after cameras were installed on an airframe. The existing single latch was beefed up and a second added to the other side of the airframe. That’s in a book written by a NASA test pilot. There was no latch initially. Vought subsequently added a lock, perhaps of the actuator itself. I’ll have to look that up if somebody else doesn’t do it first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tailspin Turtle Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 More on the wing here (but not the down lock): https://superheatmemorial.blogspot.com/2019/06/f8u-f-8-wing.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 21, 2021 Share Posted February 21, 2021 4 hours ago, Tailspin Turtle said: The pivot point of the wing itself Thanks TT, I was sure it was aft of the front actuator but unsure about the hinge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 On 2/21/2021 at 12:56 AM, Tailspin Turtle said: By design, under almost all flight conditions, the wing lift (center of pressure) is aft of the hinge point. The actuator is actually holding the wing up, not holding it on. As far as I know, there have been no incidents of the wing coming off because of over exuberant maneuvering; the hinge points have failed first. Good point! I would have thought with high lift devices deployed and wing up there would definitely be a pulling, not pushing force, but hadn't taken the high wing sweep into account. Cheers! J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 27, 2021 Author Share Posted February 27, 2021 Thanks all, I'm still wondering however if anyone can recommend some colourful decal sheets for USMC or USN F-8E's. Thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 27, 2021 Share Posted February 27, 2021 2 hours ago, serendip said: I'm still wondering however if anyone can recommend some colourful decal sheets for USMC or USN F-8E's. How about https://www.furballaero-design.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=48-007 Shows out of stock but may be found by other sellers... Also, the Fox One sheet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fox-One-Decals-48-025-Marine-Corps-Crusaders-Decals-1-48th-scale-/283808924862 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted February 28, 2021 Author Share Posted February 28, 2021 15 hours ago, habu2 said: How about https://www.furballaero-design.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=48-007 Shows out of stock but may be found by other sellers... Also, the Fox One sheet: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fox-One-Decals-48-025-Marine-Corps-Crusaders-Decals-1-48th-scale-/283808924862 Thanks Habu! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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