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F-5E/F Light Gray question (Williams AFB before they shut down)


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Got a question for the F-5E/F experts out there. I am trying to track down an elusive color that seems to have no reference for it. It was seen painted on F-5E/F jets used for foreign pilot training out of Williams AFB (and possibly Luke AFB as well) before they program wrapped up. Now I believe it is the same color gray found on some of the Brazillian AF jets as they bought F-5s from everybody to build up their own force and they typically didn't do full repaints until the planes went through depot level maintenance.

 

I believe FCM has referenced it on their decal sheet 48049, decal scheme #3 (color "G" I think). But I haven't been able to find any decent imagery of the instructions to allow me to read the color name or the FS number. If I have to get the sheet I will, but I am looking for this color to do up a NASA F-5F as they got one from the Williams Aircraft lot and didn't repaint it either. In some photos it is a very flat gray, yet in others it looks almost white. Any assistance would be most welcome.

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The Armycast 1/48 ‘Tigers’ decal sheet has a Light Grey NASA bird on it. You can’t quite make out the colour call out but to me it looks like FS36307, which when compared to photographs of the actual a/c looks right.

 

This is the same colour as the lightest of the 3 Greys on the Aegean Ghost scheme and depending on the light can look from off White to Medium Grey to the eye.

Edited by scotthldr
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On 2/20/2021 at 9:03 AM, scotthldr said:

The Armycast 1/48 ‘Tigers’ decal sheet has a Light Grey NASA bird on it. You can’t quite make out the colour call out but to me it looks like FS36307, which when compared to photographs of the actual a/c looks right.

 

This is the same colour as the lightest of the 3 Greys on the Aegean Ghost scheme and depending on the light can look from off White to Medium Grey to the eye.

I'm not certain of the exact FS color, but 36307 is definitely not it (despite Armycast's suggestion).  In the photo below you can see what @Jay Chladek described as the "almost white" appearance of this color, but with a wingtip AIM-9 in the "known" color of FS36375.  The airframe is clearly much lighter than light ghost gray.  36307 is a darker color than 36375, as well as being a significantly "warmer" gray, often having an almost beige/tan appearance.

425th_Tactical_Fighter_Training_Squadron

 

The FCM instructions (readable on their own site) call for FS36495:

http://www.fcm.eti.br/48-33 Instruction1.jpg

 

But I'd be somewhat skeptical of this also as, to the best of my knowledge, FS36495 hasn't ever been a standard USAF color - it's more common in the early USN/USMC TPS countershaded gray schemes.  I suspect the actual color is either FS36492 - very close to 36495, and used as the lighter gray on USAF EF-111As, or - my personal choice, FS 16515, sometimes referred to as "Boeing" or "Canadian Voodoo" gray, for its respective use on types such as the E-3A and the CF-101.  The Sentry actually illustrates the same "sometimes white, sometimes very gray" variation in appearance - with the benefit of large white areas on the wings and tail group that give a baseline comparison point from most angles.

 

Usaf.e3sentry.750pix.jpg

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I'm very confident that it's ADC Gray FS16473. Keep in mind that being a light gray, it will wash out in pictures like those that Quixote74 posted. I got a chance to photograph on the 425ths ramp back in 1983 on a partly cloudy day. As soon as the sun went into the clouds, the color was clearly ADC gray. When the sun came out, it looked much lighter. HTH, Fred K.

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That first picture of the F-5 is so over exposed on the airframe it's useless to use that to compare anything.

 

https://www.the-northrop-f-5-enthusiast-page.info/Pictures/USAF/00881SideA.jpg

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/model/Northrop F-5F Tiger II

 

F-5B in what appears to the same colour

 

https://www.the-northrop-f-5-enthusiast-page.info/Pictures/USAF/00441.jpg

Edited by scotthldr
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49 minutes ago, scotthldr said:

That first picture of the F-5 is so over exposed on the airframe it's useless to use that to compare anything.

Normally that would be true, except as I pointed out, the AIM-9 on the wingtip is known to be FS36375, so it gives a baseline for relative comparison (in the same light conditions and overexposure). Unless you think somehow the airframe is overexposed but the missile is not? Bottom line is FS36307 is nowhere near the actual color (too dark and too "warm" a gray).

 

Saving others some time, your links above reposted in "live" format:

 

https://www.the-northrop-f-5-enthusiast-page.info/Pictures/USAF/00881SideA.jpg

 

https://imgproc.airliners.net/photos/airliners/9/5/7/0937759.jpg?v=v40

 

https://www.the-northrop-f-5-enthusiast-page.info/Pictures/USAF/00441.jpg

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In some sort of digital restoration effort the image has been altered to a point where the Grey has washed out rendering it useless for comparing colours. We know that the AIM9 is 36375, but in the picture it looks more like 36270 and the White portion is totally obliterated. The whole contrast of the picture is shot. 

 

The links I posted(thanks for pointing out they weren't working), show a colour that is nowhere near "near White" and certainly not Boeing Grey(which is different to FS36515).

 

 I was merely pointing out that 36307 was referenced to by Armycast on it's sheet, if it's wrong then it's wrong. However if F5guy says it's 36473 I would be happy with that.

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2 hours ago, scotthldr said:

That first picture of the F-5 is so over exposed on the airframe it's useless to use that to compare anything.

 

To me that looks like a digital scan of a printed picture in a book, which could have originally been a film/transparency negative.   I'd say there are multiple levels of manipulation/modification possible in that legacy.

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