ESzczesniak Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I'm getting close enough to painting my Kinetic 1/48 F-16I Sufa that I need to actually pick and commit to weapons. I want to keep the load out realistic, but "Israeli" and unique if I can. I know they can carry some of the later GPS weapons, but am looking at the Python missiles and SPICE bomb. My first questions, is this load out realistic? Wingtip: AIM-120, Outer wing: Python 4 (or AIM-9?), middle wing: SPICE, inner wing: 600 gallon tank, centerline: 300 gallon tank, and the double chin pods. This is I think what this photo is showing: Secondly, what would be the correct wingtip pylons? The Kinetic instructions don't seem to actually show which ones to install. I don't know the LAU-xxx numbers of each, but the painting guide seems to show the earlier pylons. Meanwhile, this picture seems pretty clear it should be the later style: I appreciate any thoughts. I'm probably never much of an expert on realistic load out, but even less so when looking at foreign air forces! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pollie Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Those bombs are GBU-24, not Rafael Spice. To carry AIM-120s, you will need the LAU-129 launcher and not the older 16S210 launchrails. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, pollie said: Those bombs are GBU-24, not Rafael Spice. To carry AIM-120s, you will need the LAU-129 launcher and not the older 16S210 launchrails. Thank you! I don't think I have any GBU-24's. I'll have to look for aftermarket, or look for new load out pictures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thadeus Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 50 minutes ago, ESzczesniak said: Thank you! I don't think I have any GBU-24's. I'll have to look for aftermarket, or look for new load out pictures. GBU-24's should be in all Kinetic F-16's, on the sprue with the wing fuel tanks. However the ones in the picture seem to be with MK-84 warhead, not the BLU-109. From the front it's hard to tell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Isradecal Sufa book doesn't show any single picture of Sufa carrying Spice bombs. Not that Sufa can't carry them but still, no photos. The rest is ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Helmsman said: Isradecal Sufa book doesn't show any single picture of Sufa carrying Spice bombs. Not that Sufa can't carry them but still, no photos. The rest is ok. The IsraDecal F-16I in IAF service books have pics of Spice loaded on Sta 3 & 7 on p. 76-77 (2005 edition) and p. 92-93 (2009 edition) . Edited March 29, 2021 by habu2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 I have older book with just 82 pages 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Helmsman said: I have older book with just 82 pages 🙂 I looked at the later book first then found the same pics in the earlier book and edited my reply. edit: based on the pics in the Isra book the bombs in the OP’s first pic are not Spice. Edited March 29, 2021 by habu2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 LAU-129 for the wingtips, with 16S210 under the wing on the outmost station. Israeli VIpers carry predominantly Israeli made weapons, hence do a google and you'll see what you need. Skunkworks did a Israeli weapons kit which can be recommended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Helmsman Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 9 hours ago, habu2 said: The IsraDecal F-16I in IAF service books have pics of Spice loaded on Sta 3 & 7 on p. 76-77 (2005 edition) and p. 92-93 (2009 edition) . Well, it takes time to recognize Sufa in that single photo. Especially when the same pictures are in the Barak book as well. They just cropped the top of that photo to hide Sufa-specific features. Go figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Niels said: LAU-129 for the wingtips, with 16S210 under the wing on the outmost station. Israeli VIpers carry predominantly Israeli made weapons, hence do a google and you'll see what you need. Skunkworks did a Israeli weapons kit which can be recommended. Thank you for confirming the wing tip rails. I have been Google searching variations of F-16I and weapons/weapons load/etc. Most of the pictures are pretty empty aircraft. The one I keep seeing show up with weapons are the GBU-24's I thought were the SPICE. I do have the Kinetic set, which also gives me the Delilah as an option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gb_madcat_sl Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 By the looks of if, the first photo is of a test aircraft. Note the vanes on the nose pitot. Mark Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, gb_madcat_sl said: By the looks of if, the first photo is of a test aircraft. Note the vanes on the nose pitot. Mark Good point! Seems a little odd to be in operational paint and a full on test aircraft, but definitely not the normal production arrangement either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 2 hours ago, ESzczesniak said: Good point! Seems a little odd to be in operational paint and a full on test aircraft, but definitely not the normal production arrangement either. All FMS F-16s built in Ft Worth are painted in the factory in the camouflage colors/pattern for that country. Specifically the Israeli jets flew out of Ft Worth with USA star/bar insignia temporarily applied, and replaced with the Israeli Star of David once in country. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 Your load out is okay EXCEPT you have to retain the 370 gal wing tanks if also carrying Spice and Python IV. Also, all the pics I've seen of F-16Is show them carrying the early AIM-120s with the long wings, not the later AIM-120C/Ds. Here's one I just finished: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 18 minutes ago, mrvark said: Your load out is okay EXCEPT you have to retain the 370 gal wing tanks if also carrying Spice and Python IV. Also, all the pics I've seen of F-16Is show them carrying the early AIM-120s with the long wings, not the later AIM-120C/Ds. Here's one I just finished:... Thank you for the reply! Do you have any information about what weapons our cleared/ok with the 600 gallon tanks? I kind of like the look of those tanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 1 minute ago, ESzczesniak said: Do you have any information about what weapons our cleared/ok with the 600 gallon tanks? I kind of like the look of those tanks. I agree about the tanks. As you can see from your first photo, they can be used with GBU-24s. I plan on doing a 1:32 F-16I as well and will do it with that load out. I don't know why the big tanks can't be used with the Python IVs on the outboard stations--it may be that they just never tested that configuration. A lot of drag with even the 370s, so that might be part of the reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 1 hour ago, mrvark said: I agree about the tanks. As you can see from your first photo, they can be used with GBU-24s. I plan on doing a 1:32 F-16I as well and will do it with that load out. I don't know why the big tanks can't be used with the Python IVs on the outboard stations--it may be that they just never tested that configuration. A lot of drag with even the 370s, so that might be part of the reason. It may also have something to do with MTOW. While doing some Google searches for loadouts, I came across some forum discussion elsewhere that stated the F-16I can not take off with full CFT/600 gallon fuel load and much in the way of weapons. I'm not sure how well informed the poster was, but it seems plausible. Of course, release clearance around the bigger tanks could also be an issue as you noted. And I think the GBU-24's may be heavier even than the SPICE. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mrvark Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 2 hours ago, ESzczesniak said: It may also have something to do with MTOW. While doing some Google searches for loadouts, I came across some forum discussion elsewhere that stated the F-16I can not take off with full CFT/600 gallon fuel load and much in the way of weapons. I'm not sure how well informed the poster was, but it seems plausible. Of course, release clearance around the bigger tanks could also be an issue as you noted. And I think the GBU-24's may be heavier even than the SPICE. I don't think its a MTOW issue. When I asked the question, my understanding was that Spice can be carried with the 600 gal tanks, but that mix precluded the Python IV on the outboard station. That makes me think it is probably a separation issue (i.e., when the Spice is released, the airflow around the tank might force it outboard enough that it might impact the the Python IV), but that is only my GUESS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ESzczesniak Posted April 3, 2021 Author Share Posted April 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, mrvark said: I don't think its a MTOW issue. When I asked the question, my understanding was that Spice can be carried with the 600 gal tanks, but that mix precluded the Python IV on the outboard station. That makes me think it is probably a separation issue (i.e., when the Spice is released, the airflow around the tank might force it outboard enough that it might impact the the Python IV), but that is only my GUESS. Also sounds very reasonable. While I saw the comment about MTOW, something about the way it was posted left me questioning the level of actual knowledge behind the post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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