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FJ-3 Fury cockpit color


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My sense is, if it was green, it would have been in the GSB -3's. I would believe the cockpits in the latter non slat wing gray over white Fury's would have had gray cockpits. Certainly the -3M's. There's not a lot of color images of the -3 Fury but what I have seen the G/W scheme seems to show gray. Now, I will say maybe on a replacement of an ejection seat they didn't install one that had not been repainted gray. The four color photos on Ginter's book cover show gray bang seats and all the Fury's are hard wing.  

 

Also looking again at a few color photos in the D&S Fury book, the head rests of the G/W -3 bang seats all look to be gray in the ones where the seat is visible. 

Edited by jpk
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17 minutes ago, jpk said:

My sense is, if it was green, it would have been in the GSB -3's. I would believe the cockpits in the latter non slat wing gray over white Fury's would have had gray cockpits. Certainly the -3M's. There's not a lot of color images of the -3 Fury but what I have seen the G/W scheme seems to show gray. Now, I will say maybe on a replacement of an ejection seat they didn't install one that had not been repainted gray. The four color photos on Ginter's book cover show gray bang seats and all the Fury's are hard wing.  

 

Also looking again at a few color photos in the D&S Fury book, the head rests of the G/W -3 bang seats all look to be gray in the ones where the seat is visible. 


Your logic is very good, and I agree with your points.  I only wish we had a bit more evidence!

Edited by Corey
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Corey,

 

It seems very likely that all FJ-3 and 3M made their first assignment with green cockpits. As Tailspin Tommy has mentioned, it makes sense that at their first O&R they were refinished in the grey colour. See this shot of VF-211 FJ-3Ms still with green cockpit.

 

 

VF-211.jpg

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1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

Corey,

 

It seems very likely that all FJ-3 and 3M made their first assignment with green cockpits. As Tailspin Tommy has mentioned, it makes sense that at their first O&R they were refinished in the grey colour. See this shot of VF-211 FJ-3Ms still with green cockpit.

 

 

VF-211.jpg


Oh!  Thanks for that Sabrejet, you’ve given me a way out!  
 

While I’ve got you on the line, looking through the Ginter book, it seems like there are two main drop tanks for the FJ-3, the 150 gal thin tank provided in the Kitty Hawk kit, and a shorter, fatter tank.  What size tank is that and is it the same tank provided in the Hobby Boss FJ-4B kit?

 

here are the HB tank with the KH tank:

 

E592B1ED-5641-4DFE-81C4-6F54FCF1B1E5.jpeg

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Corey, the 'short and fat' tank is the 200-gal tank that's fitted to F-86s. It's used on FJ-4/4B and some FJ-3/3M. There may be some minor differences, the main one being Corogard on the fwd section of the 'FJ' application.

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14 minutes ago, Sabrejet said:

Corey, the 'short and fat' tank is the 200-gal tank that's fitted to F-86s. It's used on FJ-4/4B and some FJ-3/3M. There may be some minor differences, the main one being Corogard on the fwd section of the 'FJ' application.


thanks!

 

where else besides the HB Fury and the Grand Phoenix Fury can the 200 gallon tanks be sourced?  

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17 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Corey,

 

It seems very likely that all FJ-3 and 3M made their first assignment with green cockpits. As Tailspin Tommy has mentioned, it makes sense that at their first O&R they were refinished in the grey colour. See this shot of VF-211 FJ-3Ms still with green cockpit.

 

 

VF-211.jpg

Those certainly appear to be green. There's a lot of blue/green shift in the color of the photo. I'd have to see a color corrected photo to be certain.  I stand corrected. How often did the machines go through O&R?

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Did a quick color correction on the photo through Photoshop Elements. It appears to me green is the color. The aircraft in the foreground really shows as green. They all appear to be -3M's as well with the Sidewinder pylons inside the wing tanks

FJ-3 formation.jpg

Edited by jpk
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So you can choose your color and you won't be wrong. When Caracal's decal sheets come out it should be easy to time refence the marking with color photos that are online. I do have many photos that show gray seats. I would hazard a guess all GSB -3's had green cockpits.

Edited by jpk
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For more examples of the possibilities, see https://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2011/04/fj23-fury-redux.html. Scroll down and there is a color picture of a blue FJ-3 with a “green” headrest; farther down, there is a gray/white FJ-3 (BuNo 139267: fairly early but with a ribbed rudder) with a green headrest (click on the picture to enlarge it); still farther down, an FJ-3M with what appears to be a black headrest...

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Thanks for the replies guys, at least I have some options!

 

@Tailspin Turtle  Another great article!  I zoomed way in on the photo with the black ejection seat.  As I zoomed, I was able to detect some green.  It’s possible that even the black seat may actually be green, but just in shadow.  

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I went through my library of Fury photos, many courtesy of Sabrejet's posts from Britmodeler. Discarding the B&W's and the restorations, ALL of my color photos seem to show a green tint to the bang seat headrest. However on the cover of Steve Ginter's book on the FJ-3 Fury, the color photos show gray or cannot discern the color for certain. 

 

I am really surprised at the small number of color photos that is available on the net and elsewhere. I'm sure many photos in Ginter's book may be in color but the cost of printing them was not economical. That is one reason I like Bert Kinzey's D&S digital books. A lot of photos that would have otherwise been printed in B&W are not only in color but usually from slide photos so the quality is very good. 

Edited by jpk
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@jpk  That Ginter cover shot, the seats and the aft turtle deck behind the seats sure look grey at first look.  It’s possible they could be green but washed out from sunlight.

 

Regarding the D&S, apparently Bert is working on a new Fury edition, so our wish for more color photos may be fulfilled by the digital edition.

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19 minutes ago, BillS said:

I guess you guys already saw this. I lean gray because of the sunlit footage and the clear images in Ginter’s book.  


 

great video, thanks for posting!

 

 I see green in a lot of places in that video.  I agree, in others, I see grey, whether it’s actually painted grey or lighting conditions, I’m not sure.

 

 

AEB3A35A-A321-4124-8529-BF27CB172F79.jpeg

1C90AB11-B4B2-4370-8261-F62E63EA0B25.jpeg

1C683EE8-5962-42B4-82DF-C2DF51697CE8.jpeg

AF38D50F-F53F-4827-B2DA-5B6C49AD4073.png

C855C0D7-4734-47D3-B25A-DA304F870C35.jpeg

5346016F-A8FC-47D3-A3F5-A31AA2BDBBD3.png

Edited by Corey
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7 hours ago, Corey said:

@jpk  That Ginter cover shot, the seats and the aft turtle deck behind the seats sure look grey at first look.  It’s possible they could be green but washed out from sunlight.

 

Regarding the D&S, apparently Bert is working on a new Fury edition, so our wish for more color photos may be fulfilled by the digital edition.

Excellent. I do have his Demon, Cougar, Banshee early and late editions. I am quite happy with them. 

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7 hours ago, BillS said:

I guess you guys already saw this. I lean gray because of the sunlit footage and the clear images in Ginter’s book.  

I've watched that video as well. Obviously gray at first look. Those stills now, I don't know.

Edited by jpk
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8 hours ago, Corey said:

@jpk  That Ginter cover shot, the seats and the aft turtle deck behind the seats sure look grey at first look.  It’s possible they could be green but washed out from sunlight.

 

Regarding the D&S, apparently Bert is working on a new Fury edition, so our wish for more color photos may be fulfilled by the digital edition.

I really hated his Fury book. It was so disjointed. Tried to cover too much ground, -1 to -4. Too much to cover in a small book. He broke the Banshee up into two books. No reason, actually more reason to split the digital Fury series into four books. At least maybe just one on the -1 because there was so little on it and it was operational for such a brief time. Combine maybe the -2 and -3 then do the -4 separate. To me that make much more sense. 

 

Even Ginter seemed to have a lot of trouble with the -1 and -2 books. Both were very brief. The -3 and -4 books were far more comprehensive.  Also, they were very early in his revised book series format and probably had no idea how popular they would be. I'm sure if he had the time and opportunity he would expand them. Hopefully Kinzey will fill the void. 

Edited by jpk
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I was just rewatching that fabulous video posted above.  The Sidewinders being carried, are they practice rounds or live missiles?  I don’t think I’ve ever seen Sidewinders in those bright colors.  They must have been brand new in 1956 too, maybe part of the testing program?

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7 minutes ago, Corey said:

I was just rewatching that fabulous video posted above.  The Sidewinders being carried, are they practice rounds or live missiles?  I don’t think I’ve ever seen Sidewinders in those bright colors.  They must have been brand new in 1956 too, maybe part of the testing program?

If they had blue on them they were practice. 

 

Looking again, they have a blue section aft of the orange fin section. I would say practice. 

 

Edited by jpk
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