Susaschka Posted August 25, 2021 Author Share Posted August 25, 2021 Thanks again! Guess I'm also guilty wanting to fully load my models. 😇 I think I will go for the 2 LGB-10's with 3 tanks or a loadout of mk.82's with 2 tanks as the mk.20 loadout is altready reserved for my Spang F-4E. Your help is very much appriciated and answered a lot of my questions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 It sounds like you have an excellent handle on it. It’ll look very good. Three fuel tanks is fine though I suspect it would’ve launched with only two. But then, here’s the kicker, the USAFE “deal” was no live weapons to be overflown unless an actual hostile action. Note the SUU-21’s had doors on them to prevent inadvertent release of even a practice munition. I like your ideas and hope to see them come up on the boards here. I’m proud to sayI worked Phantoms and three versions of them at that. I have the “phantom bites” on my hands to prove it. Definitely two of the most unusual years of my life. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮 That explains the lack of pictures on the Internet of planes carrying live weapons. I just bought a F-100D and F-105D with corresponding decals from Spang, so these were also added to my project. Link to my project on Scalemates: https://www.scalemates.com/profiles/mate.php?id=35910&p=collections&collection=5963 It will be great fun building all of these 13 (!) planes and I will certainly post results here. Just keep in mind that I'm a relaxed builder, so it can take some time. 😎 Edited September 16, 2021 by Susaschka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Susaschka said: I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮 Too densly populated, so that if you loose something from the jet you are more likely than not to hit something that will stir public opinion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 It is possible they did fly with live weapons now and then, in Germany with the CF-104 about 3 or 4 times a year the squadrons would fly with live weapons, Mk-82s and rocket pods, to various ranges in France, Germany (West Germany that is) and even up to Belgium. Of course their routes were such to avoid cities, towns and villages. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 9/16/2021 at 5:43 PM, Susaschka said: I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮 That explains the lack of pictures on the Internet of planes carrying live weapons. The Americans dont have a very good track record of carrying live weapons on their aircraft without accident, and given the population density in Europe it seems prudent not to allow them to carry them over peoples heads, houses and even fields. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 On 9/17/2021 at 7:43 PM, ElectroSoldier said: The Americans dont have a very good track record of carrying live weapons on their aircraft without accident, and given the population density in Europe it seems prudent not to allow them to carry them over peoples heads, houses and even fields. That absurd statement is entirely in keeping with your Negative Nancy Syndrome. Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 1 minute ago, GeneK said: That absurd statement is entirely in keeping with your Negative Nancy Syndrome. Gene K It just so happens that its true. That is why the SUU-21 has doors on it and its wasnt possible to carry the SUU-20 practice bomb dispenser. What is Negative Nancy Syndrome? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Did they allow German planes to carry live weapons? Just curious if it was only U.S. Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Im not sure if the rule was directed at Americans alone, I dont think it was. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 The rules changed in the mid 80's as the CF-18 carried the SUU-5003, a slightly modified SUU-20: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rob de Bie Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 In 10 years of aircraft spotting in Europe, with a keep eye on the stores carried, I hardly ever saw live OR dummy bombs. If they were carried, it was usually from an airfield close to a range. The only one I can think of right now were some USAFE F-16 (Hahn or Torrejon) taking off from Zaragoza with Mk84s. Don't remember if they were live or dummy. Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 A CF-18 over Europe with rocket pods, which were inert as they were just for a photo op: http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/assets/AIRFORCE_Internet/images/news-nouvelles/2018/04/isc87-489.jpg Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sarahcsburrows Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Hi Finn! I am the granddaughter of Larry Burrows. I see he was part of a discussion back in 2013 regarding Yankee Papa 13 - which I do have images of the markings. My father (Larry's son) was hoping to reach out to you. May I please have your email address so that he can message you privately? Thank you so much! Sarah Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 On 9/2/2021 at 11:17 PM, VADM Fangschleister said: It sounds like you have an excellent handle on it. It’ll look very good. Three fuel tanks is fine though I suspect it would’ve launched with only two. But then, here’s the kicker, the USAFE “deal” was no live weapons to be overflown unless an actual hostile action. Note the SUU-21’s had doors on them to prevent inadvertent release of even a practice munition. I like your ideas and hope to see them come up on the boards here. I’m proud to sayI worked Phantoms and three versions of them at that. I have the “phantom bites” on my hands to prove it. Definitely two of the most unusual years of my life. Two new questions if I may: 🙂 - Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types? - I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 10 hours ago, Susaschka said: Two new questions if I may: 🙂 - Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types? - I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's? 1) Depends on timeframe. Spang's F-4G would carry CBU-87 during dessert storm as an example. 2) MK 20 weights only ~222kg/490lbs, while the CBU-87 weitghts ~431kg/970lbs. Although the TER has a weight limit of ~3000lbs, the larger size of the CBU-87 will give limitations, not atleast wrt safe separation, hence only 2 carried. FYI - during Dessert Storm leaflet bombs had the old casings of the Mk 20 but different stripes around the bomb body. So as leaflet boms they were carried, but not as cluster bombs, atleast not by USAF. This also because the modern armoured cars and other vehicles can withstand (most of) the shrapnel of the MK20. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VADM Fangschleister Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 On 11/8/2021 at 2:44 AM, Susaschka said: Two new questions if I may: 🙂 - Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types? - I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's? If I remember right, we put the Mk20’s on TERs a lot. The SUU-30 dispensers we also loaded a lot but I can’t remember if we put them on the bottom TER stations or not. The munition could clear the ground just fine but I can’t remember if the jammer table and arms could fit to get under the TER for Sta 1. But we definitely put three Mk20’s on each TER. I say SUU-30 because that’s the “canister” that held whatever was inside and that’s what determined the numerical designator for the munition. Mostly we got them as CBU-52’s. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 On 11/9/2021 at 8:14 PM, VADM Fangschleister said: If I remember right, we put the Mk20’s on TERs a lot. The SUU-30 dispensers we also loaded a lot but I can’t remember if we put them on the bottom TER stations or not. The munition could clear the ground just fine but I can’t remember if the jammer table and arms could fit to get under the TER for Sta 1. But we definitely put three Mk20’s on each TER. I say SUU-30 because that’s the “canister” that held whatever was inside and that’s what determined the numerical designator for the munition. Mostly we got them as CBU-52’s. HTH Thanks! I'll propably go for two SUU-30/CBU-52's side by side on a TER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 12, 2021 Author Share Posted November 12, 2021 On 11/8/2021 at 7:47 PM, Niels said: FYI - during Desert Storm leaflet bombs had the old casings of the Mk 20 but different stripes around the bomb body. So as leaflet bombs they were carried, but not as cluster bombs, at least not by USAF. This also because the modern armored cars and other vehicles can withstand (most of) the shrapnel of the MK20. I didnt know this fact. They should have called them Paper Clusters. 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted November 12, 2021 Share Posted November 12, 2021 They should - her is more info incl. picture. As you will recognize, it is the shape of the MK20 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 11/12/2021 at 10:41 AM, Niels said: They should - here is more info incl. picture. As you will recognize, it is the shape of the MK20 Indeed, at first glance only the markings are different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) Found this picture from a F-4D in an Airdoc publication and I have to say that I like this loadout too. 🙂 Edited November 27, 2021 by Susaschka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 Nice pic, I have that book by Airdoc. Note that the AGM-65 is an inert training round, hence used to simulate attack runs using the AGM-65. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Here are live Mavericks, and ECM pod: and on the subject of leaflet bombs, the USAF used the M-129 leaflet bomb, which looked like a M-117 750lb bomb but had paper inside rather than HE: Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Finn said: Here are live Mavericks, and ECM pod: Jari Nice pic and loadout! I've also read that when AGM-65's were carried on LAU-88's, they would only carry two on the inboard and bottom position of the LAU-88. This loadout is now also back in the game. 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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