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Spangdahlem F-4D colors and weapon loadout questions


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Thanks again!

 

Guess I'm also guilty wanting to fully load my models. 😇

 

I think I will go for the 2 LGB-10's with 3 tanks or a loadout of mk.82's with 2 tanks as the mk.20 loadout is altready reserved for my Spang F-4E.

Your help is very much appriciated and answered a lot of my questions.

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It sounds like you have an excellent handle on it.  It’ll look very good. Three fuel tanks is fine though I suspect it would’ve launched with only two.  But then, here’s the kicker, the USAFE “deal” was no live weapons to be overflown unless an actual hostile action.  
 

Note the SUU-21’s had doors on them to prevent inadvertent release of even a practice munition.  
 

I like your ideas and hope to see them come up on the boards here.  I’m proud to sayI worked Phantoms and three versions of them at that.  I have the “phantom bites” on my hands to prove it.  Definitely two of the most unusual years of my life. 

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I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮

That explains the lack of pictures on the Internet of planes carrying live weapons.

 

I just bought a F-100D and F-105D with corresponding decals from Spang, so these were also added to my project.

Link to my project on Scalemates: https://www.scalemates.com/profiles/mate.php?id=35910&p=collections&collection=5963

 

It will be great fun building all of these 13 (!) planes and I will certainly post results here.

Just keep in mind that I'm a relaxed builder, so it can take some time. 😎

Edited by Susaschka
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1 hour ago, Susaschka said:

I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮

 

Too densly populated, so that if you loose something from the jet you are more likely than not to hit something that will stir public opinion. 

 

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It is possible they did fly with live weapons now and then, in Germany with the CF-104 about 3 or 4 times a year the squadrons would fly with live weapons, Mk-82s and rocket pods, to various ranges in France, Germany (West Germany that is) and even up to Belgium. Of course their routes were such to avoid cities, towns and villages.

 

Jari 

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On 9/16/2021 at 5:43 PM, Susaschka said:

I really didn't know that Spang birds weren't allowed to fly with live weapons during peacetime. 😮

That explains the lack of pictures on the Internet of planes carrying live weapons.

 

 

The Americans dont have a very good track record of carrying live weapons on their aircraft without accident, and given the population density in Europe it seems prudent not to allow them to carry them over peoples heads, houses and even fields.

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On 9/17/2021 at 7:43 PM, ElectroSoldier said:

The Americans dont have a very good track record of carrying live weapons on their aircraft without accident, and given the population density in Europe it seems prudent not to allow them to carry them over peoples heads, houses and even fields.

That absurd statement is entirely in keeping with your Negative Nancy Syndrome. 

 

Gene K

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In 10 years of aircraft spotting in Europe, with a keep eye on the stores carried, I hardly ever saw live OR dummy bombs. If they were carried, it was usually from an airfield close to a range. The only one I can think of right now were some USAFE F-16 (Hahn or Torrejon) taking off from Zaragoza with Mk84s. Don't remember if they were live or dummy.

 

Rob

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Hi Finn!

 

I am the granddaughter of Larry Burrows. I see he was part of a discussion back in 2013 regarding Yankee Papa 13 - which I do have images of the markings. My father (Larry's son) was hoping to reach out to you. May I please have your email address so that he can message you privately?

 

Thank you so much!

 

Sarah

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/2/2021 at 11:17 PM, VADM Fangschleister said:

It sounds like you have an excellent handle on it.  It’ll look very good. Three fuel tanks is fine though I suspect it would’ve launched with only two.  But then, here’s the kicker, the USAFE “deal” was no live weapons to be overflown unless an actual hostile action.  
 

Note the SUU-21’s had doors on them to prevent inadvertent release of even a practice munition.  
 

I like your ideas and hope to see them come up on the boards here.  I’m proud to sayI worked Phantoms and three versions of them at that.  I have the “phantom bites” on my hands to prove it.  Definitely two of the most unusual years of my life. 

 

Two new questions if I may: 🙂

- Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types?

- I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's?

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10 hours ago, Susaschka said:

 

Two new questions if I may: 🙂

- Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types?

- I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's?

1) Depends on timeframe. Spang's F-4G would carry CBU-87 during dessert storm as an example. 

2) MK 20 weights only ~222kg/490lbs, while the CBU-87 weitghts ~431kg/970lbs. Although the TER has a weight limit of ~3000lbs, the larger size of the CBU-87 will give limitations, not atleast wrt safe separation, hence only 2 carried. 

 

FYI - during Dessert Storm leaflet bombs had the old casings of the Mk 20 but different stripes around the bomb body. So as leaflet boms they were carried, but not as cluster bombs, atleast not by USAF. This also because the modern armoured cars and other vehicles can withstand (most of) the shrapnel of the MK20. 

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:44 AM, Susaschka said:

 

Two new questions if I may: 🙂

- Which types of cluster bombs were used on the Spang Phantoms? Only Mk.20 and CBU-87 or also other types?

- I know that 3 Mk.20 could be carried on a TER, but was this also the case with the CBU-87's?

If I remember right, we put the Mk20’s on TERs a lot.  The SUU-30 dispensers we also loaded a lot but I can’t remember if we put them on the bottom TER stations or not.  The munition could clear the ground just fine but I can’t remember if the jammer table and arms could fit to get under the TER for Sta 1.  But we definitely put three Mk20’s on each TER.   I say SUU-30 because that’s the “canister” that held whatever was inside and that’s what determined the numerical designator for the munition.  Mostly we got them as CBU-52’s.  
 

HTH

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On 11/9/2021 at 8:14 PM, VADM Fangschleister said:

If I remember right, we put the Mk20’s on TERs a lot.  The SUU-30 dispensers we also loaded a lot but I can’t remember if we put them on the bottom TER stations or not.  The munition could clear the ground just fine but I can’t remember if the jammer table and arms could fit to get under the TER for Sta 1.  But we definitely put three Mk20’s on each TER.   I say SUU-30 because that’s the “canister” that held whatever was inside and that’s what determined the numerical designator for the munition.  Mostly we got them as CBU-52’s.  
 

HTH

 

Thanks! I'll propably go for two SUU-30/CBU-52's side by side on a TER

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On 11/8/2021 at 7:47 PM, Niels said:

FYI - during Desert Storm leaflet bombs had the old casings of the Mk 20 but different stripes around the bomb body. So as leaflet bombs they were carried, but not as cluster bombs, at least not by USAF. This also because the modern armored cars and other vehicles can withstand (most of) the shrapnel of the MK20. 

 

I didnt know this fact. They should have called them Paper Clusters. 🙂

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5 hours ago, Finn said:

Here are live Mavericks, and ECM pod:

 

F-4D_Phantom_II_81st_TFW_1978.JPEG

 

Jari

 

Nice pic and loadout!

I've also read that when AGM-65's were carried on LAU-88's, they would only carry two on the inboard and bottom position of the LAU-88.

This loadout is now also back in the game. 🙂

 

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