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Australia to build nuclear submarines.


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https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300408565/australia-planning-nuclear-submarines-with-us-and-british-help

 

Good on Australia for ditching the French company, who were building diesel subs for Australia, for not completing enough of the work in Australia.

 

Will be very interesting to see how this new agreement affects our region.

 

(I am keeping any comments about New Zealand, New Zealand politics and our PM to myself!)

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I was not exactly keeping up with this, but I am pretty surprised personally to wake up to this news this morning. I think it makes sense as the Australians are "leveling up" now in terms of capability rather than sticking with the less capable diesels

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6 hours ago, juanchopancho said:

France is pissed 😆

 

It's nice to see the Australian's to finally learn that if the project is late, ditch it before you can't turn back. If the French were behind schedule and they hadn't even got a sub in the water yet, it was a good time to cut and run.

 

The next test for Australia is to keep them stock instead of adding their own specs.

 

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5 hours ago, Alternative 4 said:

 

It's nice to see the Australian's to finally learn that if the project is late, ditch it before you can't turn back. If the French were behind schedule and they hadn't even got a sub in the water yet, it was a good time to cut and run.

 

The next test for Australia is to keep them stock instead of adding their own specs.

 

Yes we have a habit of wanting things changed around. Look at the mess that was the Sea Sprite helicopter. 
 

on the other hand, when we buy off the shelf without fiddling with it, it seems to work. The Super Hornet and Globemaster III are examples of that. 

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8 hours ago, Ryan Hothersall said:

Yes we have a habit of wanting things changed around. Look at the mess that was the Sea Sprite helicopter. 
 

on the other hand, when we buy off the shelf without fiddling with it, it seems to work. The Super Hornet and Globemaster III are examples of that. 

If they opt to purchase a carbon copy of a US sub that’s already in production, things should go ok (assuming they can squeeze these subs into the production schedule, I have no idea how much extra production capacity is available).    If they opt to add a lot new features or opt for a brand new design, all bets are off, given the Navy’s horrible track record in this area.  

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Some sensibilities are apparently offended by this deal.   Interesting enough, Paris feels that the UK was not culpable, just the US and Australia.   The Brits were simply being "opportunistic".   

 

France recalls ambassadors to US and Australia after Aukus pact | France | The Guardian

 

Guess we need to start requesting Freedom Fries at Micky-D's from now on.  

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On 9/17/2021 at 9:57 PM, 11bee said:

If they opt to purchase a carbon copy of a US sub that’s already in production, things should go ok (assuming they can squeeze these subs into the production schedule, I have no idea how much extra production capacity is available).    If they opt to add a lot new features or opt for a brand new design, all bets are off, given the Navy’s horrible track record in this area.  

That's exactly the issue at a technical (ie not political/diplomatic) level: some Australians were complaining the development was going too slowly, and the deliveries would be late. I can't see how going US and nuclear will make things any faster, especially considering how cluttered the US shipyards are at the moment (the UK one too by the way) and how Australia has no experience at all with ship-borne nuclear reactors.

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For all the entertainment value this event currently has, the reality is that it’s likely to be 10 years or so before the first submarine is delivered.  I seriously doubt that they will simply buy submarines built in the US or UK.  They will want to build them, at least as much as they can, in Australia as a jobs/experience program for their people.  There will certainly be some components that are bought, like the reactor system, that will be built in the US or UK, but how much of the rest of the work is done in Australia will be the first big fight.  Then there will be the inevitable delays, fights about specifications, upgrades and changes during production, etc., that will go on for months and years.  Look at the French deal.  It was signed in 2016, and so far nothing much has actually come out of it.

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55 minutes ago, arnobiz said:

That's exactly the issue at a technical (ie not political/diplomatic) level: some Australians were complaining the development was going too slowly, and the deliveries would be late. I can't see how going US and nuclear will make things any faster, especially considering how cluttered the US shipyards are at the moment (the UK one too by the way) and how Australia has no experience at all with ship-borne nuclear reactors.

Your raise a good point Arnobiz.   The US has 60 years of experience with submarine reactor systems and it's totally integrated into the Navy's safety culture.   Nothing at all against the Aussies but it will be very interesting to see how quickly they can get up to speed.   You can't just grow this capability and culture overnight. 

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3 hours ago, Dave Williams said:

For all the entertainment value this event currently has, the reality is that it’s likely to be 10 years or so before the first submarine is delivered.  I seriously doubt that they will simply buy submarines built in the US or UK.  They will want to build them, at least as much as they can, in Australia as a jobs/experience program for their people.  There will certainly be some components that are bought, like the reactor system, that will be built in the US or UK, but how much of the rest of the work is done in Australia will be the first big fight.  Then there will be the inevitable delays, fights about specifications, upgrades and changes during production, etc., that will go on for months and years.  Look at the French deal.  It was signed in 2016, and so far nothing much has actually come out of it.

Much has been done since 2016 to build up Australian capabilities, both by training engineers in France and to build up the local shipyard capabilities. The truth is Australia was starting from very far (which is why they insisted on so much technology transfer in the first place) and this new deal just pushes the goal line a lot further still with the addition of a nuclear component

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19 hours ago, parche said:

Maybe I have found my post-Navy job... Nuclear submarine expert for hire to Australia 😁

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Dave... indeed you have...

How does a diesel-powered Submarine  work ? and what happens if they run out of diesel hundreds  of meters(or feet) below the waters!

:hmmm:

 

SYDNEY — Australia's prime minister, Scott Morrison, said Sunday that it had “deep and grave” concerns about the diesel-powered submarines it planned to buy from France — and that Paris knew that well before Canberra abruptly canceled the deal in favor of sharing nuclear submarine technology with the United States and ...

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16 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

Dave... indeed you have...

How does a diesel-powered Submarine  work ? and what happens if they run out of diesel hundreds  of meters(or feet) below the waters!

:hmmm:

 

SYDNEY — Australia's prime minister, Scott Morrison, said Sunday that it had “deep and grave” concerns about the diesel-powered submarines it planned to buy from France — and that Paris knew that well before Canberra abruptly canceled the deal in favor of sharing nuclear submarine technology with the United States and ...


Diesel engines need air to operate.  They only run the diesel engine when on the surface, or just below the surface, drawing in air through a snorkel that sticks up above the water.  There is no such thing as “running out of diesel hundreds of meters below the waters”.  At depth, the sub runs on electric motors powered by batteries.

 

The current Collins class subs operated by the RAN are diesel-electric.

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46 minutes ago, HOLMES said:

.... “deep and grave” concerns about the diesel-powered submarines ...........

 

“deep" and "grave” are not two words you want to associate with any submarine....

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