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Is the hobby dying or is now best years ever?


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3 hours ago, DarkKnight said:

...I only hope more get into it and less people sit at home...

 

The vast majority of model makers (of any age) do sit at home, on their own and enjoy their hobby without the need to engage with other modelers on a regular basis. The model makers who get out and about to shows and who engage on internet forums and social media are (and always have been) a minority of the model-buying public.

 

The industry could not be sustained by the sales of kits if their primary market was the show-going, internet-engaging public. For many 'modelers', their kit building is more an adjunct to other interests - tie-ins with movies and with other franchises for example, or being inspired by something specific (an airshow, a motorsport event or whatever) - rather than because they see themselves as modelers first. I own a couple of mountain bikes. I ride them semi-regularly, but I don't consider myself to be an MTB enthusiast because my interest is a casual enjoyment of the activity rather than something I'm passionate about. However, I still buy products relating to that hobby.

 

The other thing to remember is that the buying demographic has changed massively in the past 20-30 years. At one time, Asian manufacturers meant the Japanese companies - now it means a huge array of manufacturers who are mostly based in China.

 

For the Japanese, their primary focus has always been their own domestic market - the global market represents a much smaller proportion of their sales. Estimates vary but it's realistic to suggest that 80% of their sales are to the Japanese domestic market.

 

The same is true of the Chinese manufacturers - their home markets have developed rapidly as the standards of living and therefore spending power of their population has increased. It is a huge, hungry market that can sustain multiple producers and it is no coincidence that so many of the manufacturers we see today come from that area. The global market is important, but not vital to them.

 

In the traditional 'western' heartlands of the hobby (primarily Europe and North America), the interest is still strong, but it doesn't have the hunger that it used to have and very few of the manufacturers from those areas that we grew up with would be considered class-leaders these days. They haven't been able to make the leap from being old-style producers with large catalogues, to smaller, agile producers with more limited but ever-changing catalogues.

 

On a European stage, the exception are the East European players who didn't have that burden of tradition and started at around the same time the Chinese manufacturers did. They knew there was a massive appetite within their own regions and with the changing political landscape in the 1990s, they were finally able to start servicing that market with good quality, domestically produced kits whilst also selling across the world in a way they weren't previously free to do.

 

The hobby is healthy on a global stage. It is also still strong in Europe and North America (and other 'western' countries), but it has less long term growth potential in those areas - the balance of power has changed.

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I want to flip the question around: what are you doing to get people building models? Beyond my kids, I know I have gotten at least 2 kids building. I work make & takes with my club. l ran a 6-hour build at the Loveland Nats. I do demos regularly and help club members with new skills. They help me, too. I can't wait until my granddaughters are old enough to start building. 

 

I have to get over prices, but the quality and variety of kits have never been better.

 

Vern

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19 hours ago, DarkKnight said:

^^ no Im so old I cant recall, why so bitter, you have a kid who you let act like this?

 

No kids. Can you only stand up for people when it directly benefits yourself? 

 

18 hours ago, GW8345 said:

What have you added to the discussion on the state of the hobby, so far I've only seen you attack someone because you don't agree with their opinion on today's youth, how welcoming is that?

 

You tell someone to be more welcoming, maybe you should lead by example.

 

Unnecessarily inflammatory remarks about kids = opinion.

Addressing unnecessarily inflammatory remarks about kids = "attack".

Got it. Geez....

 

Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to be tolerant of intolerant behaviour. Look up Popper's Tolerance Paradox.

I am leading by example by holding people accountable for their actions. You are free to state your opinion. You are not free from possibly experiencing backlash for that. 

At no point did I say he couldn't state his opinion. I'm just stating my view of said opinion.

 

16 hours ago, ST0RM said:

@ChernayaAkula
 

Wow, enjoy being a dick much?
He's expressing his point of view and asking a logical question. The truth is that growth of the hobby is not happening at the pace it used to. Kit prices and electronic games have taken up the place a model kit used to. 

Nostalgia is keeping us older people involved. We knew what growing up was like without all the tech devices. It became a habit. 

Try reading what you post before hitting submit. Unless you truly enjoy showing off your closed mind. 

 

He stated an opinion. I stated my view of it. Simples. Don't like my view? Tough luck. You could try arguing the point or you could resort to name-calling. No, sorry, I guess there's a third option that wraps the argument in name-calling.

 

Asking a logical question is fine. Stating an opinion is fine. Shitting on kids is not fine. Discussing and possibly lamenting the possible death of a hobby while dumping on younger folks that could pick up the tab is.... not smart.

 

Regarding your views on the death of the hobby. You say the growth is not happening at the pace it used to. I'd agree in that the pace is different, but disagree in that I think the pace has actually picked up. Yes, Kitty Hawk is no more. In the same time, numerous other manufacturers have emerged. Kits, 3D printing, decals, masks, PE, reference books... we got coming out of our ears.

The quality standard of finished models has gone up tremendously as well, I think. I recently threw out a bunch of old modelling magazines from theblate 90s/early 00s. What was a high standard then would probably be just a decent no frills build now. 

 

The demise of brick and mortar model shops is a thing about brick and mortar shops in general, not about the modelling hobby. And frankly, I can't remember a single brick and mortar shop that could have possibly satisfied my hobby demands these days. Not even remotely. There's a reason the shops operate out of warehouses these days and the reason is the size and vitality of the hobby. Yes, you can no longer get a Matchbox kit at your newsagents. Then again, are your modelling needs satisfied by a Matchbox kit from your newsagents? Is the hobby dead or are you conflating childhood memories with the state of the hobby?

 

Kit prices have gone up. In absolute terms yes, in relation to budgets ... hmm, not quite as much, I think. 50 bucks these days don't get you as much as they did 25 years ago.

 

Electronic devices/games. Just... no. Nothing to do with it. Plenty of modellers are also gamers. There's no reason to believe it has to be either/or. BTW, the average gamer also isn't the young kid everyone assumes.

Done right, I think games and modelling could really profit off each other. Think games like "World of Tanks" and such. With proper kits like Bandai's, films (and games) like Star Wars can also spawn new modellers. (Anecdotal aside: I think the PC game "Rebel Assault" introduced me to Star Wars, not the other way round, where a film makes you pick up games/models/toys).

 

Your nostalgia is fine. But do you have to express it by raving about "kids these days"? Don't you remember being the same "kid these days" in your day?

Article decrying the death of the hobby are almost as old as the hobby itself. I recently read an opinion piece in a modelling magazine from the late 70s/early 80s lamenting the death of the hobby. Kids these days, with their motorcycles and rock music and girlfriends, no longer interested in Airfix (no, really, I didn't make this up). It's the same tired shoot over and over and over again, only the length or colour of the kids these days varies. Do we have to perpetuate this shoot?

 

 

 

EDIT: spellies. Also, I didn't use the word shoot in these last few sentences.

 

Edited by ChernayaAkula
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25 minutes ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

No kids. Can you only stand up for people when it directly benefits yourself? 

 

Asking a logical question is fine. Stating an opinion is fine. Shitting on kids is not fine. Discussing and possibly lamenting the possible death of a hobby while dumping on younger folks that could pick up the tab is.... not smart.

 

 

 

 

 

I dont recall my generation going around toppling statues, burning and looting cities, barricading police in their stations and setting fire to them and holding entire cities hostage with CHAD/CHAZ neighborhoods. Those are the kids these days. Whether this topic should even exist that is just a poorly thought out hit piece (yes I believe this thread shouldnt have even made it past the submit stage) is just another example of why we cant get anything done in this country anymore. I dont recall social justice and critical race theory being taught to us in school...so even though this topic isnt relevant, it still highlights the problems we have with todays youths.

Edited by utley
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2 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

No kids. Can you only stand up for people when it directly benefits yourself? 

 

 

Unnecessarily inflammatory remarks about kids = opinion.

Addressing unnecessarily inflammatory remarks about kids = "attack".

Got it. Geez....

 

Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to be tolerant of intolerant behaviour. Look up Popper's Tolerance Paradox.

I am leading by example by holding people accountable for their actions. You are free to state your opinion. You are not free from possibly experiencing backlash for that. 

At no point did I say he couldn't state his opinion. I'm just stating my view of said opinion.

 

 

He stated an opinion. I stated my view of it. Simples. Don't like my view? Tough luck. You could try arguing the point or you could resort to name-calling. No, sorry, I guess there's a third option that wraps the argument in name-calling.

 

Asking a logical question is fine. Stating an opinion is fine. Shitting on kids is not fine. Discussing and possibly lamenting the possible death of a hobby while dumping on younger folks that could pick up the tab is.... not smart.

 

Regarding your views on the death of the hobby. You say the growth is not happening at the pace it used to. I'd agree in that the pace is different, but disagree in that I think the pace has actually picked up. Yes, Kitty Hawk is no more. In the same time, numerous other manufacturers have emerged. Kits, 3D printing, decals, masks, PE, reference books... we got coming out of our ears.

The quality standard of finished models has gone up tremendously as well, I think. I recently threw out a bunch of old modelling magazines from theblate 90s/early 00s. What was a high standard then would probably be just a decent no frills build now. 

 

The demise of brick and mortar model shops is a thing about brick and mortar shops in general, not about the modelling hobby. And frankly, I can't remember a single brick and mortar shop that could have possibly satisfied my hobby demands these days. Not even remotely. There's a reason the shops operate out of warehouses these days and the reason is the size and vitality of the hobby. Yes, you can no longer get a Matchbox kit at your newsagents. Then again, are your modelling needs satisfied by a Matchbox kit from your newsagents? Is the hobby dead or are you conflating childhood memories with the state of the hobby?

 

Kit prices have gone up. In absolute terms yes, in relation to budgets ... hmm, not quite as much, I think. 50 bucks these days don't get you as much as they did 25 years ago.

 

Electronic devices/games. Just... no. Nothing to do with it. Plenty of modellers are also gamers. There's no reason to believe it has to be either/or. BTW, the average gamer also isn't the young kid everyone assumes.

Done right, I think games and modelling could really profit off each other. Think games like "World of Tanks" and such. With proper kits like Bandai's, films (and games) like Star Wars can also spawn new modellers. (Anecdotal aside: I think the PC game "Rebel Assault" introduced me to Star Wars, not the other way round, where a film makes you pick up games/models/toys).

 

Your nostalgia is fine. But do you have to express it by raving about "kids these days"? Don't you remember being the same "kid these days" in your day?

Article decrying the death of the hobby are almost as old as the hobby itself. I recently read an opinion piece in a modelling magazine from the late 70s/early 80s lamenting the death of the hobby. Kids these days, with their motorcycles and rock music and girlfriends, no longer interested in Airfix (no, really, I didn't make this up). It's the same tired shoot over and over and over again, only the length or colour of the kids these days varies. Do we have to perpetuate this shoot?

 

 

 

EDIT: spellies. Also, I didn't use the word shoot in these last few sentences.

 

Do you even read what you write?

 

You say you hold people accountable for their actions (you are holding someone "accountable" for expressing an opinion) then you say they are free to express their  opinion. Well, which one is it, are they free to express an opinion or are you going to hold them "accountable" for it?

 

Also, what constitutes "intolerant behavior", what one person call's "intolerant behavior" is perfectly acceptable to someone else so again. I'm sure you are fine with kids burning down cities, attacking people they don't agree with, blocking traffic and all around acting like spoiled brats.........until it affects you personally. Me, I'm tired of the self entitled know it all spoiled brats that seem to be in the majority these days. I'm not saying all youth these days are like that but there sure seems to be a lot of them running around who seem to think it's okay to do whatever they want and think their "feelings" trumps everyone else's rights.

 

"At no point did I say he couldn't state his opinion." Yet you attack him for stating an opinion, talk about trying to stop someone from doing something.

 

You might want to follow your own advice, don't like someone's opinion, tough luck.

 

1 hour ago, utley said:

I dont recall my generation going around toppling statues, burning and looting cities, barricading police in their stations and setting fire to them and holding entire cities hostage with CHAD/CHAZ neighborhoods. Those are the kids these days. Whether this topic should even exist that is just a poorly thought out hit piece (yes I believe this thread shouldnt have even made it past the submit stage) is just another example of why we cant get anything done in this country anymore. I dont recall social justice and critical race theory being taught to us in school...so even though this topic isnt relevant, it still highlights the problems we have with todays youths.

+1

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14 minutes ago, juanchopancho said:

what part of no politics do you guys not understand? State of the hobby? then trash entire generations?

 

It's embarrassing. 

Ive read the entire thread, I dont recall seeing politics.

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1 hour ago, juanchopancho said:

what part of no politics do you guys not understand? State of the hobby? then trash entire generations?

 

It's embarrassing. 

I didn't know expressing an opinion about today's youth is considered politics.

 

Can someone post a list of what all is considered political and thus verboten.

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Many of todays youth lack the problem solving abilities you need to build models.  Ask them how their  phone works, they dont know.  Some of them dont care to drive a car, so they cant manage directions, thus they can't build a model,  What am I doing?  Im teaching them, modeling isnt racist! I complained about the teacher who told my kid he couldn't talk about Enola Gay or show a model because it was "racist" she also lied saying the crew all suicided or were institutionalized.  Part of modeling is understanding history, recreating it in an accurate model, heck even star trek modelers work on the history of the future. I give little kids Legos to start them on the path, I tell them stories of Midway, Flying Tigers, Boyington (ok, not best role model) Rudel, Cunningham etc etc.  I tell them ignore the rants of teachers and people who wish to rewrite what happened. The research helps to build accurate models, it also starts with collecting, a replica of a car you like, then a model etc etc, they need reprogramming,  purple hair is not ok ,if you're unsure about being male or female, simply look in your underwear to figure it out. Part of modeling is learning to do things and learning to not just start whining when it goes bad;

What else am I doing? buying modeling stuff, it creates a demand, and capitalism works!

Edited by DarkKnight
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2 hours ago, ChernayaAkula said:

 

No kids. Can you only stand up for people when it directly benefits yourself? 

 

Asking a logical question is fine. Stating an opinion is fine. Shitting on kids is not fine. Discussing and possibly lamenting the possible death of a hobby while dumping on younger folks that could pick up the tab is.... not smart.

 

 

Article decrying the death of the hobby are almost as old as the hobby itself. I recently read an opinion piece in a modelling magazine from the late 70s/early 80s lamenting the death of the hobby. Kids these days, with their motorcycles and rock music and girlfriends, no longer interested in Airfix (no, really, I didn't make this up). It's the same tired shoot over and over and over again, only the length or colour of the kids these days varies. Do we have to perpetuate this shoot?

 

 

 

EDIT: spellies. Also, I didn't use the word shoot in these last few sentences.

 

^^The White Knight has arrived, kids everywhere are thanking you for protecting them from mean adults who speak truths

 

as for the past, you can lack time for modeling when you are chasing girls and playing with cars, but lots do come back, people who lack the basic skills in life to be a male or think rationally cant model

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I dont recall my generation going around toppling statues, burning and looting cities, barricading police in their stations and setting fire to them and holding entire cities hostage with CHAD/CHAZ neighborhoods. Those are the kids these days. Whether this topic should even exist that is just a poorly thought out hit piece (yes I believe this thread shouldnt have even made it past the submit stage) is just another example of why we cant get anything done in this country anymore. I dont recall social justice and critical race theory being taught to us in school...so even though this topic isnt relevant, it still highlights the problems we have with todays youths.

Is it dementia already?

 

Seems like you missed the 60s. In smelly old farts voice tHeM ThesE KidS ThEse Days! SoCiAlisT mOraNs Social Justice and critical race theory.... what politics?.... gtfoh

 

smells like crusty depends boomer diapers in here.

 

Also who the frack do you think are keeping all the aricraft, tanks, helos up in the air? It aint boomers. Who do you think have been fighting your wars the last 20 years. It aint boomers. So STFU boomer

 

Oh also nothing gets done in this country anymore? ORLY? Whose in leadership positions? Boomers

 

Also this topic is idiotic. No the hobby isn't dying. You has-beens are dying.

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1 hour ago, juanchopancho said:

 

Not sure who you're calling a boomer since Im Gen X, but go ahead and show me some news reels about anti fascists beating up little old ladies or running around town shooting people who oppose your ideal views in public. I missed the 60s; but you arent going to sit there and tell me that the country hasnt been torn apart any worse than it is now. Get TF off your high horse...or get your high horse off, dont care.. Also, I was serving my country in its time of need on 9-11-01, where were you? Getting woke, I bet.

 

Edited by utley
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Again you're getting into politics. antifa, little old ladies, shootings and burning has nothing to do with scale modeling. You seem to have missed the civil war. I seem to recall the country having been torn apart way worse before. Or are we just being obtuse now.

 

crusty old arsehole voice "I build plastic models" I'm superior to everyone. "Them kids" don't know how cell phones work. No dude they know 100x more about cell phones than you crusty old fool.

 

nostalgia trap circle jerkoffs

Edited by juanchopancho
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So where did politics come into it again? I dont recall seeing a single person mention democrat or republican or asked you who you voted for, so basically the thing you're complaining about is the very topic NOT being discussed here, and the only thing we agree on is that this thread is a shi7-show. You want to flame me for an opinion I have and choose to personally attack me instead of posting a reasonable argument tells me everything we need to know about you, and if you arent embarassed, Ill be embarrassed for you. Heres my political diatribe: "Stay Woke, Get Clapped" - George Washington...probably.

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1 hour ago, juanchopancho said:

Again you're getting into politics. antifa, little old ladies, shootings and burning has nothing to do with scale modeling. You seem to have missed the civil war. I seem to recall the country having been torn apart way worse before. Or are we just being obtuse now.

 

crusty old arsehole voice "I build plastic models" I'm superior to everyone. "Them kids" don't know how cell phones work. No dude they know 100x more about cell phones than you crusty old fool.

 

nostalgia trap circle jerkoffs

Just because you label a topic as political doesn't mean it's political. If that was the case anyone can label anything political and shut down any discussion they don't agree with or like.

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16 minutes ago, utley said:

So where did politics come into it again? I dont recall seeing a single person mention democrat or republican or asked you who you voted for, so basically the thing you're complaining about is the very topic NOT being discussed here, and the only thing we agree on is that this thread is a shi7-show.

Antifa, BLM, fires, racial justice, socialist morons, critical race theory is all deeply political whether you want to recognize that or not. You don't have to mention any particular political party. You keep bringing this shoot up that has nothing to do with scale modeling or kids in particular.

 

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3 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Just because you label a topic as political doesn't mean it's political. If that was the case anyone can label anything political and shut down any discussion they don't agree with or like.

 

Ok let me show you. No mention of political parties. So not political, right. Right?

 

This is why the hobby is dying.  Antifa CEO punched grandma in the face. Them kids ruined the hobby because they play on their toy cell phones all day. Someone burned down a burger king down the block. This is why kids can't read instructions.

 

5G fauci injections ivermectin hydroxychloroquin. See no politics! 😆 I never mentioned a political party!

 

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4 hours ago, GW8345 said:

You say you hold people accountable for their actions (you are holding someone "accountable" for expressing an opinion) then you say they are free to express their  opinion. Well, which one is it, are they free to express an opinion or are you going to hold them "accountable" for it? <...>

 

It's not either/or. It's both, actually. That's just... how it works. Actions, consequences, that sorta thing. You voice an opinion (action), you kinda risk other people not liking that opinion and - the audacity! - voicing an opinion in reply themselves (consequences). That's basically all what holding someone accountable for their statements means as far as Internet discussion boards are concerned: asking someone to take responsibility for their statements. Nothing more. Responsibility. Consequences at the lowest possible scale: having to read a retort.  

 

Having to read a differing opinion is an attack to you? Just.. someone doesn't agree with you and says so? That's... an attack? What a sheltered life you must lead. From someone who's throwing around epithets like "snowflake" (not in this thread) and raving about "self entitled know it all spoiled brats", that's.... rich. And immensely funny.

 

 

 

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The people who are so angry here need to rethink their lives, their attitudes destroy modeling, the attitude of stupidity is okay". screaming "boomer" etc.  Its the reason kids dont model anymore, the big puss attitude, here's an example, my neighbor seemed like a nice guy, he and I were talking, he had some relative fight in Korea, he liked airplanes of that era, was trying to talk him into building, he seemed very interested, later told me his wife wouldn't let him "spend money on stuff like that", she looks like Grimace  from McDonalds In her purple clothes, pasty white w/ear holes, short  purple hair, green sometimes, their "son" is no longer allowed to come by my house, his parents dont allow him to have toy guns, he and I once talked about Han Solos blaster, I told him it was based on a gun from WW2, he was so excited and made one out of Legos, the nutsos freaked. The shrill harpy made the guy come talk to me, the dad told me they dont allow toy guns, and I should have told him tings like, "instead of making a Lego gun, how about a magic wand that makes bad people be good and I said "like a gun?"

  These people destroy the ideas and energy behind modeling as do their supporters, they start screaming and try to "cancel" people who are having. discussion because they cant handle it or their wife wont let them.  

btw this guy stares at my car with envy, his wife wont let him have anything he wants, like many of us my car is unique and my fighter jet, while I watch the other people who lack creativity and imagination, thats another thing modeling teaches.

  So maybe while your losing your shoot, you should look inward at what is making you so angry in your life, btw Im not a boomer, people act like if youre a normal person, its suddenly Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino 

Edited by DarkKnight
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2 hours ago, juanchopancho said:

 

Ok let me show you. No mention of political parties. So not political, right. Right?

 

This is why the hobby is dying.  Antifa CEO punched grandma in the face. Them kids ruined the hobby because they play on their toy cell phones all day. Someone burned down a burger king down the block. This is why kids can't read instructions.

 

5G fauci injections ivermectin hydroxychloroquin. See no politics! 😆 I never mentioned a political party!

 

Nothing you wrote is political because you didn't use it in a political context, all you have done is created word salad.

 

Now, if you take a topic, add some political context to it then it would be political, such as talking about a certain movement and it's ideology/leanings, that could be considered political.

Edited by GW8345
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