serendip Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Any actual pictures of the kit yet - I've this one and the Meng 'G on pre-order and am curoius to the differences. Thanks, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MA Cooke Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 How many here have built any of the Z-M F-4's? I snapped up a G model within the last month, adding to my (early) E and J model Z-M Phantom kits. I'm thinking about getting the Tamiya B-model, and doing a simultaneous build of that one along with the Z-M J-model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I have built the Z-M F-4D and F-4J. They are definitely nice kits. I just finished the Tamiya F-4B and that kit is in a different league. Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 ^^^another league as in easier to build or more accurate? would it make sense to try and combine 2 kits to use Tamiya as a base? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 I’d say the Tamiya kit is both easier to build and more accurate, especially as up until the F-4E based kits, ZM had an issue with the rear fuselage profile forward of the exhausts. As far as combining kits, it would most likely be a wasted effort. Aside from possible fit issues, Tamiya is almost certain to release a C/D boxing of their F-4B kit themselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 Still curious if there are any pictures of the ZM F4-G out yet - wondering if ZM or Meng will be better. The missiles included in the Meng kit do really appeal though. That seems one up on the ZM kit. I've only seen 3D renderings of the Meng kit so far however and I try to be cautious as to how well they reflect the actual plastic. Nice to see this thread coming back to life, Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Dave Williams said: I’d say the Tamiya kit is both easier to build and more accurate, especially as up until the F-4E based kits, ZM had an issue with the rear fuselage profile forward of the exhausts. As far as combining kits, it would most likely be a wasted effort. Aside from possible fit issues, Tamiya is almost certain to release a C/D boxing of their F-4B kit themselves. Thats the one Im waiting for. the F-4C/D The Hasegawa kit is long in the tooth and very expensive for what it is, the Monogram kit is a lot of work and the Academy kit is hard to find. We have been waiting for a top class C/D for years now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MA Cooke Posted October 30, 2022 Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) Here are a few. Not quite a complete nor thorough unboxing, but hopefully this satisfies some curiosity. Edited October 30, 2022 by MA Cooke Better pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 19 hours ago, DarkKnight said: ^^^another league as in easier to build or more accurate? would it make sense to try and combine 2 kits to use Tamiya as a base? It is easier from the point of view that every piece fits exactly, no sanding of seams, no putty and sometimes you don't even need glue. The detail is finer and I would say more accurate. But saying all that about the Tamiya kit does not mean the Z-M kit is a dog by any means. Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 20 hours ago, MA Cooke said: Here are a few. Not quite a complete nor thorough unboxing, but hopefully this satisfies some curiosity. Thanks Ma, Looks good - wondering how it compares to the Meng. @Geoff, I agree, I have the Tamiya F4-B, still unbuilt, but if the Tamiya F14 is anything to go by (building my second one) the F4 should be excellent too. We're so spoilt these days - almost miss Kitty Hawk - built the KH 101C though and got the intakes right in the end thanks to some really excellent threads on ARC and BM. Marc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Adding to Cooke’s photos… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 Continuing… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Happy Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 MA Cooke & RichB63, Thank you for posting and take the time to show each tree and decals of the new ZM F-4G. Have a Happy Thanksgiving and Holiday season, Mr. Happy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) One more, and some commentary… Overall, I think this is a very good kit, as indicated by these images: nice surface features and good attention to detail. 2 years ago I would have rated it as excellent all around. This recent shift in perspective is twofold: First and foremost, Jumpei Temma’s keen-eyed observations on Phantoms, as documented on his website. Secondly, last year’s release of the sublime Tamiya F-4B in 1/48, rumored to have incorporated much of Jumpei’s research. Both of these developments have raised awareness levels and caused me to view Phantom kits with a more critical eye. In my opinion, and I confess it’s discriminating, as explained above, ZM’s Phantom series are let down primarily by the shape of the windscreen/canopy, in particular its straight sided outline, and a too thick in cross-section vertical tail, especially toward the leading edge, unbefitting for a double sonic interceptor. Set alongside the Tamiya kit, which captures these features, and many others, so pleasingly, the discrepancies are difficult to ignore. Is this a case of the perfect being the enemy of the good? Perhaps. The online forums reveal the modeling community is divided, sometimes bitterly, over what defines an acceptable level of kit accuracy. Personally, I welcome the careful scrutiny of details; it’s educational and, incrementally, it raises the state-of-the-art of our hobby. I predict that in 10 years time, perhaps less, a new Phantom kit will supplant Tamiya’s benchmark F-4 in 1:48. I hope I’m still around to enjoy it. In the meantime, it must be said that the quality (and quantity) of Phantom kits available today represent a quantum leap over what there was to choose from when I entered this hobby 50 years ago. And that makes me a happy camper. Edited November 22, 2022 by RichB63 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 so I should wait for a Tamiya F-4G? disappointed in ZM for not getting the canopy right, but still better than the Hasegawa? maybe an aftermarket resin tail? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, DarkKnight said: so I should wait for a Tamiya F-4G? disappointed in ZM for not getting the canopy right, but still better than the Hasegawa? maybe an aftermarket resin tail? I suspect that you’ll be waiting for a very, very long time before Tamiya releases a 1/48 F-4G. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Dave Williams said: I suspect that you’ll be waiting for a very, very long time before Tamiya releases a 1/48 F-4G. That’s my guess too. Even a follow on short nose F-4C, D or J, which Tamiya’s tooling and parts layout hint at, would require a substantial set of changes, not least of which a new wing. I hope they choose to make the effort. Edited November 22, 2022 by RichB63 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Im just hoping for an E so I can build a Kurnass Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Happy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 I’m certain that ZM will produce a “Later model E” Slat Wing at some point as they had announced an F-4F sometime ago. My guess is that ZM is set to produce most of the Gun Nose Phantom derivatives. (Pure speculation on my part but the news and evidence supports my humble opinion.) The Slat Wing is now their in the form of the G, so now all they need to do is mate it up with the E fuselage to produce a “late” E. (I realize a “Late’’ and ‘or Later E can cover a broad spectrum of block models.) I’m not going to go as far to say with certainty that what blocks are going to be produced, however the molds are essentially available for ZM to assemble and pop out. I hope that Tamiya will not play to coy or shy away from future Phantom derivatives. That being said I’m not holding my breath for a TAMIYA F-4E. (But it would be great if they did!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 9 hours ago, DarkKnight said: Im just hoping for an E so I can build a Kurnass Can’t you do that now with early E kit that’s been out for a year or two? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Happy Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Dave Williams, If I may, pertaining to the ZM E kit is an example of a “Hard Wing’’ E model Phantom. The Kurnass (Heavy Hammer) derivative has / had the ‘’Slated Wing. ‘’ Hope that was a simple answer to your question? Take care, keep building, and have a Happy Thanksgivings holiday weekend, Mr. Happy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
serendip Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 19 hours ago, Mr.Happy said: MA Cooke & RichB63, Thank you for posting and take the time to show each tree and decals of the new ZM F-4G. Have a Happy Thanksgiving and Holiday season, Mr. Happy Thanks so much indeed guys - thanks for sharing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Cant wait to see the seam line along the spine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCOUT712 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Mr.Happy said: Dave Williams, If I may, pertaining to the ZM E kit is an example of a “Hard Wing’’ E model Phantom. The Kurnass (Heavy Hammer) derivative has / had the ‘’Slated Wing. ‘’ Hope that was a simple answer to your question? Take care, keep building, and have a Happy Thanksgivings holiday weekend, Mr. Happy That isn't 100% direct. The initial Kurnass deliveries consisted of hard wing E with the short gun blast difusor. 107 Squadron (The Knights of the orange tail) was the first squadron to receive a few soft wing models in 1973. Later all hard wing jets received the slat and Midas conversion. The last Kurnass to receive slats and long gun muzzle was tail #125 of 69 squadron. Some were I have The info when that was but it was weeelll into the late 70s. The Kurnass2000 jets were all slatted models off course. B/r Micharl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said: Cant wait to see the seam line along the spine. Additional work will be required to close these gaps. This is where the new Meng kit offers an advantage, with its one-piece fuselage. Edited November 22, 2022 by RichB63 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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