Susaschka Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) I think this might be a long shot, but I’ve got another Spangdahlem puzzle that needs some help solving. 😊 This weekend I’ve bought a 1:72 Italeri (1375) RB-66B Destroyer which has Spangdahlem decals included. After studying the instructions and decals carefully, I think that Italeri messed up the decal instructions. The instructions show that 4 versions that can be built: - 1: USAF, 363rd TRW, 4417th CCTS, Langley-Eustis AFB, Virginia, USA, 1969 - serial BB415/30415 - 2: USAF, 1st TRS, 10th TRW, Spangdahlem AB, Germany, 1964 - serial BB415/30415 - 3: USAF, 19st TRS, 10th TRW, RAF Alconbury, UK, 1964 - serial BB543/40543 - 4: USAF, 363rd TRW, Yokota AB, Japan, 1968 (Vietnam War) However, the images shown for version A and B (Picture 1) show exactly the same aircraft with the serial 53-0415/30415. Option C is shown as 54-0543/40543 and option D is 0-44542 is in SEA camo. (Picture 2) On the decal sheet (Picture 3) another serial set BB520/40520 can be found (Picture 4) that is not shown anywhere in the instructions. The box art (Picture 5) does show the BB520/40520, but it is shown as the Alconbury version and the Spangdahlem version is now shown as being the BB543/40543! I did manage to find pictures from all of the three planes: - 40520 taken 23-5-1964 Alconbury (Picture 6) - 40543 taken 14-5-1960, Bentwaters (Picture 7) - 30415, date and location unknown (Picture 8 ) I'm assuming that the 30415 is the CONUS one, because of the TAC emblem on the tail. The question is: Which serial does belong to the Spangdahlem version: 40520 or 40543? And do the green stripes on the engines come with the Spangdahlem or Alconbury version? Can anybody help me get a definite answer? Thanks for any help! Picture 1: Picture 2 Picture 3: Picture 4: Picture 5: Picture 6: Picture 7: Picture 8: Edited February 1, 2022 by Susaschka Pic added Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jan_CZ Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) Well, there is a difference between the box and Instruction sheet (the C version is missing on the instruction sheet) so I asked Italeri 3 years ago to clarify this. The answer from Italeri was quick with attached pdf file. So finally the C version is 40520 as is figured on the box - see attached mentioned pdf file.1375 RB-66B versione C laterale + numeri-3.pdf edited: preview of attachment was added Edited February 3, 2022 by Jan_CZ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The forum doesn't allow file attachments. Can you type in a summary or post a link to a photo of the pdf? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Jan_CZ said: Well, there is a difference between the box and Instruction sheet (the C version is missing on the instruction sheet) so I asked Italeri 3 years ago to clarify this. The answer from Italeri was quick with attached pdf file. So finally the C version is 40520 as is figured on the box - see attached mentioned pdf file.1375 RB-66B versione C laterale + numeri-3.pdf Thanks! Would indeed be great if you could post a scan from the Italeri answer here. 🙂 Do I understand correctly that: - 40520 is the Alconbury version? - 40543 is the Spangdahlem version? - The boxart is correct? Edited February 3, 2022 by Susaschka typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jan_CZ Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 1. that is correct 2. I do not know, I suppose yes 3. at least for 40520 the boxart is correct According to me, the instruction sheet should look like this: A version - 315 is correct B version should be 543 (because this number is unused) C version - should be 520 as it was confirmed by Italeri It seems somebody during instruction sheet creation inserted the 315 twice (position 1 and 2) and consequently the 543 was moved to position 3 and replaced the 520 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmat6441 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 The last picture, RB-66B 415 was taken at Tan Son Nhut SVN in 1965. Here is another picture taken of those aircraft. Note the distinctive fencing barely visible behind the roach coach. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/RB-66B_Destroyer_of_363rd_TRW_at_Ta_Son_Nhut_in_1965.jpg The RB-66Bs and WB-66Ds were part of the 9th Recon Task Force but the aircraft came from 9th TRS, Shaw AFB which had RB-66Cs and WB-66Ds at that time. The RB-66B was a B model specially modified to have a side looking radar installed. This would be its only combat deployment, I believe and the regular RB-66B photo recon version wouldn't be used in the combat zone. This is the closest the WB-66D weather recon version got to a combat zone, too. Some aircraft still had the fuselage band from exercise Goldfire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9th_Combat_Operations_Squadron The shooting star tail markings could be used to make a 19th TRS and 42nd TRS RB-66B, RB-66C and B-66B Brown Cradle EW aircraft of the 25th TRW, Chambley Air Base, France. The Brown Cradle B-66Bs were soon deployed to Thailand in 1965. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25th_Attack_Group https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/systems/b-66b.htm Here is a B-66B Brown Cradle leading a flight of F-4Cs. Note the falling star, the antenna farm. The large blade antenna near the speed brake was placed higher than on the later EB-66Es. http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft20745.htm The camo EB-66E should be Det 001 363rd TRW, stationed at Itazuke AB, but was visiting Yokota AB. It was rushed to the Far East in response to the USS Pueblo seizure. I don't think that the speed brakes were painted white. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 18 hours ago, Jan_CZ said: edited: preview of attachment was added Thanks! Do you also have the preview from the B version? Because that is the one I'm really looking for. 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jan_CZ Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Unfortunately that picture is everything what I received from Italeri. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 6, 2022 Author Share Posted February 6, 2022 23 hours ago, Jan_CZ said: Unfortunately that picture is everything what I received from Italeri. I've sent an e-mail to Italeri for clarification and will post their reponse here when I get it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 And Italeri manages to create an even bigger confusion... They replied to me today stating that the correct decals for the B (Spangdahlem) version is serial 40520! They've sent me the exact same image that they've sent to Jan_CZ but now it is named "1375 RB-66B versione B laterale.jpg" instead of Jan_CZ's image named 1375 RB-66B versione C laterale + numer..." This would mean that the instructions, boxart and picture sent to Jan_CZ are all wrong and: - 40520 is the Spangdahlem version. - 40543 is the Alconbury version. - The boxart is incorrect. I replied to Italeri informing them about the confusion they've created by sending two contradictory images and to inform me which version is which. To be continued... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 Im not to sure what the problem is here. The unit markings are in the decal options. Both Spangdahlem and Alconbury jets were in the same wing so the unit markings on the tail would be the same, as would the markings on the fuselage below the empennage (with the red triangle in it) Going by the book Ive been reading it was common to swap jets around the squadrons at the different bases they were stationed at 10th TRW, (B-66B, RB-66B/C and WB-66B/D in August 1959 to May 1965) They initially wore their squadron colours as a diagonal strip on the engine pods, later they were fin tip with a black star. Because the book only covers bases within the UK its not hard to imagine a jet that was part of the 1st TRS was moved to Spangdahlem and used by the 1st TRS there even though its covered in 19th TRS unit markings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) The problem are unclear instructions included in this Italeri kit and their conflicting answers. I just would like to know which is which to build the correct version I'm looking for. It would be a bit silly to find out afterwards that I've built the Alconbury version for my Spangdahlem project. 😉 But you could be right though: I've been in touch with someone that also told me these jets were from the same wing, went from Bitburg to Spangdahlem and later to Alconbury and were swapped around sometimes. However, I would like to know if the green band on the engines were for the Alconbury or Spangdahlem examples. I haven't been able to find any pictures from Spangdahlem examples carrying these. Guess this is the only remaining mystery left that needs solving. Edited February 10, 2022 by Susaschka typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 16 hours ago, Susaschka said: The problem are unclear instructions included in this Italeri kit and their conflicting answers. I just would like to know which is which to build the correct version I'm looking for. It would be a bit silly to find out afterwards that I've built the Alconbury version for my Spangdahlem project. 😉 But you could be right though: I've been in touch with someone that also told me these jets were from the same wing, went from Bitburg to Spangdahlem and later to Alconbury and were swapped around sometimes. However, I would like to know if the green band on the engines were for the Alconbury or Spangdahlem examples. I haven't been able to find any pictures from Spangdahlem examples carrying these. Guess this is the only remaining mystery left that needs solving. As of August 1959 until May 1965 The band on the engine pod was initially worn but then later replaced with a fin stripe. The green band of the 19th TRS, as of the dates above was based at Bruntingthorpe. However 54-543 isnt one of the jets listed as being at Bruntingthorpe at the time, it was somewhere else. The 1st TRS was based at Alconbury, squadron colour was blue, and as of the dates above had 54-420, 54-421, 54-443, 54-446, 54-449, 54-508, 54-509, 54-512, 54-513, 54-514, 54-516, 54-518, 54-519, 54-423, 54-427. The 19th TRS was based at Bruntingthorpe, squadron colour was green, and as of the dates above had 54-443, 54-416, 53-430, 54-440, 54-420, 54-424, 54-426A, 54-429, 54-430, 54-434, 54-435, 54-438, 54-439, 54-441, 54-442, 54-445, 54-447, 54-506, 54-510, 54-511 30th TRS was based at Alconbury, squadron colour was yellow, as of the dates above had 53-498, 53-485, 54-462, 54-525, 54-526, 54-528A, 54-495, 54-515, 54-525, 54-530, 54-532, 54-442, 54-446 42nd TRS was based at Chelveston, squadron colour was red, but flew the RB-66C (I do have the numbers if you want them) But like I said the jets got moved around, and being as how my records are made by plane spotters not official USAF records they can only record what they actually see at the base at the time they are there to record the information, given that the jets got moved around and the fact that some of them are missing, 543 being one of those that are missing its not beyond the realms of possibility to suppose that 543 was at Spangdahlem AB at the time... So its based at Alconbury but flown from Spangdahlem because no squadron was based there, they only flew from there. At least not the squadrons and time frame we are talking about. I would say this is one of those cases where you have to build to your reference photos, but you arent in possession of the original material. Picture 7 above carries the stripe on the engine pod. If we can discover the number of the transport behind it I might be able to tell you if that plane was ever seen in the UK... Which might or might not help to know where the photo was taken. Edited February 10, 2022 by ElectroSoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) Great info, but I'm unable to find the both 54-520 and 54-543 in your listing? The number of the transport behind looks like 15209 and the caption with the picture says: Bentwaters 14-5-60. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/5797030778/) Also found this picture with caption: "19th TRS (Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron), 66th TRW - Douglas RB-66B-DL Destroyer - 54-511 - at Spangdahlem AB, Rhineland-Palatinate, West Germany, 1958." Edited February 10, 2022 by Susaschka Pic added Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Susaschka said: Great info, but I'm unable to find the both 54-520 and 54-520 in your listing? The number of the transport behind looks like 15209 and the caption with the picture says: Bentwaters 14-5-60. (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwhitworth/5797030778/) Humm... Could have been a supply visit, but going by the photo its more likely an airshow, which explains why the RB-66B is there and the date also tells why the engine pod has the colours on it and not the tail. There is no mention of it having been based here in the UK. In 1960 Bentwaters housed the 81st TFW (78th TFS, 91st TFS, 92nd TFS) all of which flew the F-101A or C and there was a single T-39A (24469) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Looking at the decal sheet The Alconbury based jet is version B, the unit markings (white stripe with a red diamond and the unit commendation markings (white outlined strip with blue lines and red dashes) mark it as the version at Alconbury, while the TAC badge mark make 415 the cover version and version c the one with the green band was seen in Spangdahlem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Thank you very very much, I guess I'll be building 54-543! 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
latormentabritanica Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) Did we ever reach a definitive conclusion as to which scheme is which? I just bought this kit in order to build an RB-66 from Alconbury, but the details in this thread leave me more confused than ever. Edited July 29, 2022 by latormentabritanica Spelling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RAGATIGER Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) At some point my building of that same kit stalled when the main undercarriage broke down then I had to order the metal sustitute Regards Armando Edited July 29, 2022 by RAGATIGER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, latormentabritanica said: Did we every reach a definitive conclusion as to which scheme is which? I just bought this kit in order to build an RB-66 from Alconbury, but the details in this thread leave me more confused than ever. Yes we did: - The Langley based is version A serial 30415. (box cover) - The Alconbury based jet is version B serial 40520. The unit markings (white stripe with a red diamond, decals B1+B2) and the unit commendation markings (white outlined strip with blue lines and red dashes, decals B4) mark it as the version at Alconbury, - The Spangdahlem based jet is version C serial 40543, the one with the green band. Therefore the box art is correct: The unit commendation markings (B4) are not shown in the instructions, but they should go here: Edited July 29, 2022 by Susaschka Pic added Quote Link to post Share on other sites
latormentabritanica Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 7 hours ago, Susaschka said: Yes we did: - The Langley based is version A serial 30415. (box cover) - The Alconbury based jet is version B serial 40520. The unit markings (white stripe with a red diamond, decals B1+B2) and the unit commendation markings (white outlined strip with blue lines and red dashes, decals B4) mark it as the version at Alconbury, - The Spangdahlem based jet is version C serial 40543, the one with the green band. Therefore the box art is correct: The unit commendation markings (B4) are not shown in the instructions, but they should go here: Thank you very much! As a backup, there is a Youtube video showing multiple RB-66s at RAF Alconbury. It clearly shows at least two jets that can be built correctly by mixing and matching the kit decals (serials 54-0445 and 54-0442). Notice that they carry the same marking on the vertical stabilizer that you highlighted, but there is no diamond shape on the speed brakes. The video is here: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
latormentabritanica Posted July 29, 2022 Share Posted July 29, 2022 I'd also like to point out that this video shows that the anti-glare panels in front of the cockpit and on the inward side of the engine nacelles were in fact olive drab and not brown or black like kit decals. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 EXCEPTIONAL video! Makes me proud of the USAF of yore and the great relationship with Britain. I don't think the Brits know how many Anglophiles were created during their assignments to Blighty, me included! And what a great resource this video is for modelers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 4 hours ago, latormentabritanica said: Thank you very much! As a backup, there is a Youtube video showing multiple RB-66s at RAF Alconbury. It clearly shows at least two jets that can be built correctly by mixing and matching the kit decals (serials 54-0445 and 54-0442). Notice that they carry the same marking on the vertical stabilizer that you highlighted, but there is no diamond shape on the speed brakes. The video is here: I dont know exactly what that marking means, there is nothing in the notes I have about it... It seems going by the footage the unit markings changed from a stripe on the engines to the fin top and then after that at some point they also got the marking with the red diamond. There is no mention of it as a unit marking at all, and I have no photos of the aircraft while they were at Bruntingthorpe and Chelveston. They had enough RB-66Bs in the UK to map Europe ten times over every year!!! Having looked again I am confident that option B is a jet that was seen at Alconbury. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Susaschka Posted July 30, 2022 Author Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, latormentabritanica said: I'd also like to point out that this video shows that the anti-glare panels in front of the cockpit and on the inward side of the engine nacelles were in fact olive drab and not brown or black like kit decals. Thanks for pointing that out! I will replace the black decals for olive drab on my bird. Do you think the same applies to the brown anti glare decal in front of the cockpit and should this also be olive drab? Just to clarify because the version designations (A/B/C) in the instructions and the box aren't the same: Spangdahlem version: Alconbury version: Edited July 30, 2022 by Susaschka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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