AFammo Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 Been looking to obtain the Hasegawa 1/72 F-16A "Dirty Diana " package with no luck. Wondering if someone can print off a sheet of the decals in 72 or 48? Since they are out of production, would that violate copyright laws? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mario krijan Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 I have two Bobs Diana decals, but only 1/72 part.. but also it is very hard to find Hasegawa ADF kit too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 8 hours ago, AFammo said: Been looking to obtain the Hasegawa 1/72 F-16A "Dirty Diana " package with no luck. Wondering if someone can print off a sheet of the decals in 72 or 48? Since they are out of production, would that violate copyright laws? OOP or not, it's not yours or another's property to print off. Very much a copyright violation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 9, 2022 Share Posted March 9, 2022 As you know that kit is hard to find. Option 1 has been done by others in the aftermarket. Only ever saw option 2 on the kit sheet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 Two Bobs made option 1, option 2 is the one I was interested in. The response from Storm, don't know how to take. I was asking a honest question, not being sure, as people make decals of police vehicles or copies of Aircraft nose art to make models for themselves. Or to remember a moment in time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 10, 2022 Author Share Posted March 10, 2022 mario krijan Thanks for the offer. I was after option #2. I can get Twobobs version, but like you said, the kit is hard to find, (Found one for over $150.00, not into it for that much, continue looking). I was asking a honest question, cause I was not sure and I get a rude reply. If I had a laserjet printer and decal paper, I could just make a copy. I believe in integrity. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Camus272 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) Well, the honest straight answer is that it is a copyright violation. Some of us might copy a particular marking or two, but a whole sheet? (especially asking someone else to copy their own sheet does seem a little over the line). Other than the tail art, I'm sure you piece the rest of the markings from other sheets. But, I'm not sure how well that tail art would turn out from an ink jet printer anyway. I would think your best plan would be to make a post in the buy/sell forum, or the decal swap group on Facebook. I'm sure there's somebody who just used the other option, and has it remaining. The model will come out better, and there's no ethical or legal question. Edited March 10, 2022 by Camus272 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, AFammo said: mario krijan Thanks for the offer. I was after option #2. I can get Twobobs version, but like you said, the kit is hard to find, (Found one for over $150.00, not into it for that much, continue looking). I was asking a honest question, cause I was not sure and I get a rude reply. If I had a laserjet printer and decal paper, I could just make a copy. I believe in integrity. I didn't give you a rude answer. I gave you the truth. And the way you worded the initial topic, kind of sounded like you were asking for someone to print them for you. Sorry, if its not what you wanted to hear. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fulcrum1 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Copyright violations depend on what country you live in. However....two of those kits just sold on ebay last month for reasonable prices which leads me to believe your best bet is wait for one to pop up there or ask around on facebook or the modeling forums. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thadeus Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Sometimes there are companies that could make custom decals for You. I used to know one in Poland, but they no longer exist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pigsty Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 It's a copyright violation only if you make copies and sell them, or if you ask another company to make you a set and pay them to do it. If you make your own copy (only one) and you use them only on your own model, you should be fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Yes, I did, word it wrong. I'm only wanted the tail art. only reference of the aircraft I could find at the time. That is what I heard, that some company would do subjects for a fee. So, that is what I was trying to find out. Thanks for your replies and suggestions. I have heard that other companies, that would do a subject for a fee or for your own use. (like finishing a 80% receiver for your own use is ok, but a crime if you sell it or even give it away.) Truth is truth, but the way as others see it,is what matters. Some modelers like the model for what it is and the enjoyment of building it, then other posters throw in the negatives/flaws with that subject or how the builder over did the weathering. Why newcomers or others stay away from forums. (ie... It isn't a real AK-47, because it is not made in Russia.) All about perception, how others see what was said or implied. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inquisitor Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 If we go down the copyright rabbit hole. You'd also need to ask for permission or pay the original painter/designer of that tail art. IIRC is Pier Paolo Maglio who is also a member of this forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 11, 2022 Author Share Posted March 11, 2022 Also, people (myself included) using images of vehicles or aircraft without written consent of organization or official disclaimer. As the use of that image would give the perception of endorsement of the attached message or image. None the less, you all have a safe weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 (edited) As a photographer who's had my work stolen and profited from, I tend to respect other's property. Using pictures in what fashion? Reference? Thats fine. But once its becomes for profit is where the law is broken. As well as ethics. No matter the country. In your case for the OOP decals, if you can find a scan good enough and print at a usable resolution, no one will know. Good luck Edited March 12, 2022 by ST0RM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 I think its about time one of our favoured decal manufactures turned their hand to a definitive collection of the many incarnations of "Dirty Diana" The kits that include those decals sell from me like you wouldnt believe. I could get in a carton of F-16A and take a week to sell them, while the DD boxings go out when they come in so its clearly the decal option that sell there. The Italeri F-16A was the same. It was a decent kit, the Diana option was popular but the Dirty Diana made the others look unpopular. Two Bobs did the one in the white dress, Astra did the fur but nobody has done all of them. All the artwork is available in HD. We just need a manufacturer to pick up the ball Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 5 hours ago, ST0RM said: As a photographer who's had my work stolen and profited from, I tend to respect other's property. Using pictures in what fashion? Reference? Thats fine. But once its becomes for profit is where the law is broken. As well as ethics. No matter the country. In your case for the OOP decals, if you can find a scan good enough and print at a usable resolution, no one will know. Good luck Im with you there. If he was making them en mass to sell them then no I wouldnt buy and I disagree with it. But one use for himself, especially as you just cant find them and lets face it Hasegawa specials are very rare because they dont print many then go for it in that particular case. Ive tried to buy Hasegawa specials. Some get loads printed, while others get almost none. There seems to be no way of telling what gets 10,000 and what gets 50,000 printed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimz66 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 Very much a copy write infringement no doubt about it. That's someone's blood sweat and tears. As someone who went to school for graphic design I'd be furious if someone did my work. Not that I've got much to show for my schooling but as an artist I'd be pressing a serious lawsuit. Plain and simple. That's a BIG NO NO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 14, 2022 Author Share Posted March 14, 2022 Thanks for all of your responses, tail art would have been for single use. Keep searching Ebay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, AFammo said: Thanks for all of your responses, tail art would have been for single use. Keep searching Ebay. To give you a real, "sky isn't falling" response. Making a copy for your own personal use is perfectly acceptable and doesn't violate copyright, even if someone else printed it for you. In fact, it would fall under the 'fair use' section of copyright law. There is literally no one, including Hasegawa, that would pursue any type of legal action against you for making a copy of that sheet to use on your own personal model. Now, if you started making copies to sell (which you weren't planning to anyway), then it would be creeping into the 'violation' realm. You know, Cutting Edge at one time had a 1/32 fuel tank in their range that was a direct copy of a tank included in a Revell kit (even had the ejector pin marks in the casting). Bet you money most of those here that said you'd be violating copyright never told CE they were doing it, and probably bought many of their products, indirectly condoning the practice. CE isn't and wasn't the only one. Almost all of the aftermarket companies until recently (with the move toward CAD/3D printing) used kit parts to create masters. Has anyone here told them to stop violating copyright? No, they haven't and they won't. You want to know who is quite literally violating other's copyright with no repercussions? Phoenix Decals out of Hong Kong and Ebay seller tutucube out of China. This decal sheet by Phoenix? They lifted the artwork (aircraft profiles and maintenance markings) from my first AV-8B decal sheet to use on theirs. That top profile is a direct copy, including the data locations, of the instruction sheet I created. I know because they admitted it in an email. They apologized and offered to send me a free sheet to 'compensate' me. Really? Literally nothing I could do about it. To be honest, I was a bit flattered they chose my work to steal. Tutucube? Pretty much every single decal sheet they sell is a direct copy of someone else's work. They have and continue to rip off my sheets, Fightertown's, Furball's, TwoBobs, Afterburner's, Microscale's and countless others. You know what Ebay has done? Nothing.......absolutely nothing. I stopped caring after three attempts to get the items removed. At the end of the day, neither really affected the sales of my products, and probably didn't affect the others either. Hell, even if they did, there isn't anything we can do about it. Believe me, we've tried. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=tutu_cube&store_name=tutucube&_dmd=2&_oac=1&_pgn=3 For what it's worth, I've had modelers reduce or enlarge my decal sheets for their own personal use because a subject I covered wasn't in the scale they wanted. No big deal. In a couple cases after polite requests, I've even sent scaled artwork for them to print. Again, not a big deal. While I'm not sure of the outcome, I believe Scott of Bullseye Model Aviation offered to do the same thing for another modeler recently. That modeler asked a similar question to yours here on ARC as well. A bit long winded I know. However, at the end of the day, what you're asking help with isn't hurting or violating anything. Hope you're able to find the sheet or get one done for your project. Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ST0RM Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Mighty big of you Dave. Thanks for the insight. -Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AFammo Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 Thanks for your reply and agreement with my intentions, Didn't put your name to this product line. ( brothers were avionics tech on AV-8B(VMA-214) and F-18D(VMA-242)). Great products. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 17 hours ago, Dave Roof said: To give you a real, "sky isn't falling" response. Making a copy for your own personal use is perfectly acceptable and doesn't violate copyright, even if someone else printed it for you. In fact, it would fall under the 'fair use' section of copyright law. There is literally no one, including Hasegawa, that would pursue any type of legal action against you for making a copy of that sheet to use on your own personal model. Now, if you started making copies to sell (which you weren't planning to anyway), then it would be creeping into the 'violation' realm. You know, Cutting Edge at one time had a 1/32 fuel tank in their range that was a direct copy of a tank included in a Revell kit (even had the ejector pin marks in the casting). Bet you money most of those here that said you'd be violating copyright never told CE they were doing it, and probably bought many of their products, indirectly condoning the practice. CE isn't and wasn't the only one. Almost all of the aftermarket companies until recently (with the move toward CAD/3D printing) used kit parts to create masters. Has anyone here told them to stop violating copyright? No, they haven't and they won't. You want to know who is quite literally violating other's copyright with no repercussions? Phoenix Decals out of Hong Kong and Ebay seller tutucube out of China. This decal sheet by Phoenix? They lifted the artwork (aircraft profiles and maintenance markings) from my first AV-8B decal sheet to use on theirs. That top profile is a direct copy, including the data locations, of the instruction sheet I created. I know because they admitted it in an email. They apologized and offered to send me a free sheet to 'compensate' me. Really? Literally nothing I could do about it. To be honest, I was a bit flattered they chose my work to steal. Tutucube? Pretty much every single decal sheet they sell is a direct copy of someone else's work. They have and continue to rip off my sheets, Fightertown's, Furball's, TwoBobs, Afterburner's, Microscale's and countless others. You know what Ebay has done? Nothing.......absolutely nothing. I stopped caring after three attempts to get the items removed. At the end of the day, neither really affected the sales of my products, and probably didn't affect the others either. Hell, even if they did, there isn't anything we can do about it. Believe me, we've tried. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ssn=tutu_cube&store_name=tutucube&_dmd=2&_oac=1&_pgn=3 For what it's worth, I've had modelers reduce or enlarge my decal sheets for their own personal use because a subject I covered wasn't in the scale they wanted. No big deal. In a couple cases after polite requests, I've even sent scaled artwork for them to print. Again, not a big deal. While I'm not sure of the outcome, I believe Scott of Bullseye Model Aviation offered to do the same thing for another modeler recently. That modeler asked a similar question to yours here on ARC as well. A bit long winded I know. However, at the end of the day, what you're asking help with isn't hurting or violating anything. Hope you're able to find the sheet or get one done for your project. Dave Yeah Ive seen them for sale on ebay myself. It was pretty obvious to me looking at them they were a complete and utter rip off or Flying Leathernecks. It is that kind of seller we should direct anti piracy indignation towards, rather than people like the OP, because they suck the creative life out of what ever it is they target. Be that decal makers or car makers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Charlie D. Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) Hey Dave, does eBay still have the Vero program? 10+ years ago I was doing 1/6 and 1/8 resin kits. Couple guys decided to make bootleg copies of them and sell them on eBay at half what I was charging. I had to fill out a stack of paper work but was able to get their listings shut down everytime they’d put one up. That was 10+ years ago though… Edited March 16, 2022 by Charlie D. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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