B5N2 Kate at Pearl Harbor

[mongo]

I am about to paint a 1/48 Hasegawa B5N2 Kate from the Pearl Harbor attack, specifically AII-356...  I am seeking some insight on some aspects of panting the model.  I'm sure some of this has been beaten to death on this and other forums but I haven't been able to find specific answers.

1.  What color was the undersides painted, or was the underside painted?  There is a published b&w image of the wreckage of the plane showing the underside of the wing; my interpretation suggests that the exterior underside was unpainted/natural metal.  Other resources indicate "light gray".  I have the Iliad Designs color chips and the Nakajima light gray seems very dark compared to the tone of the image referenced above.  Can anybody give me some insight?

2.  What was the color of the exterior fuselage top under the canopy?  I have been told that it was a dark gray, but wonder if it was the same as the overall exterior upper surface color.

 

3.  I have a Japanese language publication from the early 90s  containing an article detailing many of the aircraft involved in the Pearl Harbor attack; sadly, I cannot read Japanese...  I have tried Google Translate.  The article has a diagram of AII-356 and indicates the tail was "brown" overall with two red stripes.  Another part of the article says "tea" as a color reference for the overall tail color.  Can anyone give me an idea of what that color is?  Either a FS number or perhaps something from the Thorpe color listing system?

 

4.  Last, what color were the wheel wells?  Would they have been the metallic blue-green or the same as the undersurfaces?

 

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer!

 

Jeff "Mongo" Cramer

[scimitar]

Hey Jeff,

 

I see no one has helped here, and as I'm no expert, my post might be no help as well, but here goes;  I agree that the plane in the photo looks to have an unpainted undersurface, though that pic is quite dark.  The first B5N2s were nmf, (though some assert that a varnish or other clear coat was applied) and more than likely assigned to Akagi and Kaga first, but subsequent production a/c were painted in the olive grey color.  

Most assume that the fuselage skin under the canopy was painted with an interior shade, and many modelers agree with that.  Ever the rogue, I have doubts, based only on one more or less clear photo 

of a B5N from the Fifth Carrier Div. with that area under the canopy painted like the fuselage, in olive grey.  So, I believe that such could be the same for the nmf planes, though speculation on my part as the dull aluminum should not present a dazzle problem...?  Said plane also appears to have had a red tail (unusual on a grey painted plane, or so I believe) overpainted with dark green, making it appear, as you stated, like a tea or brown color.

The wheel wells could be painted the grey, or left unpainted on the nmf planes as they were skinned like the rest of the exterior and not an enclosed well per se.  Most believe the wells were aotake, but as one might expect, I believe not; but hey, what do I know?  Though the Nakajima Zeroes had aotake wells, I believe that the Kate's weren't, but just more speculation on my part.   

The j-aircraft site is the place to research all planes Japanese.

I hope that my post could help you decide what to do.  My quest for supposed accuracy has left me with many incomplete models, so I know the feeling.

 

Cheers,

Jim

[mongo]

Hi Jim;

 

Thanks for your response.

After some inputs from some respondents on other boards, it pretty much mirrors your thoughts.

I am inclined to paint the undersides the olive gray color versus the treated NMF based on an image one respondent posted. 

 

However I'm still uncertain about the wheel wells.  I agree that since the wheel wells were not exposed internal structure (like say, a Zero) that they would have been the same as the overall undersurface color.  The Kates were camouflaged sometime in the Fall of 1941 in anticipation of the Pearl Harbor operation.  It appears that the order was not very specific and carried out differently on the several carriers or land bases where the painting was done.  The painting was secondary to using the planes for intensive training, so I get the impression that painting was rushed and kinda haphazard.  Were the wheelwells painted over?  I'm kinda thinkin' the wheelwells were painted the same as the undersides since that would be pretty easy, easier than painting around them. 

In their haste to paint the aircraft were the areas under the canopies repainted?  I think that area would not have been painted over since that would necessitate removing the canopy, a more involved process.  Some anti-glare treatment would be appropriate since there would be a lot of reflection from a NMF fuselage top under the canopy.  What color would that have been, dark gray or olive gray?  Of my several respondents, you're the only one who even mentioned that concern...

The tail is another matter...  The aircraft is depicted in a couple sources (Japanese pubs) as being brown.  One respondent posted a couple images of wreckage fragments that are supposedly the very aircraft I'm modeling (AII-356/the "Hospital Kate").  He indicated that there was no evidence of brown paint on the tail.  He speculated that the brown color was only on some aircraft (section leaders, perhaps) but that researchers assumed that all Kaga Kates had the brown tails.

I corresponded with the famous David Aiken when I started this project 30 years ago, inspired by the 50th Anniversary of Pearl Harbor.  Our conversations were inconclusive since he wouldn't commit to specifics.  He was a good researcher and wouldn't offer conclusions, however tentative, based on what he felt was inadequate evidence.  I ended up with more questions than answers.  And so my project languished until recently when I was inspired by the 80th Anniversary of the event...

 

My conclusions:  Olive-gray undersides, including the wheelwells.  Dark gray under the canopy.  Brown tail.  I'm runnin' with that!

Thanks again!

Mongo

 

[scimitar]

Hi Jeff,

 

There is a clearer photo of the plane you're modeling?  The photo you posted did look like an NMF a/c to me, but it could just as easily be olive grey.

I've only seen one photo of what could be grey under the canopy, but that plane was on the assembly line with no wings. I still wonder why that area wasn't painted the same color as the nose like the Zero.

As for dazzle, like our cars which we shine, are we bothered by glare off a shiny hood, or bonnet?  Not too often, no?  As the pilot had that black nose, the other crew were low down in the cockpit and might only have glare in a setting sun.  In any case, the gunner had no anti glare at all, so I don't believe the dull, unbuffed aluminum would present much of a problem, but I obviously could be very wrong about that.  Anyway, that dark grey is as good a guess as any.  The later factory planes are easier as they were probably the exterior green under that greenhouse.

The brown tail has been debated, and some experts in Japan still insist that the camou applied before the PH attack by some units had brown and green, not just green.  All the brown questions were discussed at j-aircraft.com.  You should check it out before you commit; you could very well be right about that, but I'm of the green smeared over red tail party, but again no expert me!  I know David Aiken used to post over there too, so another reason to check.

 

Good luck with build!

Jim

[seawinder]

I don't know if any photos show the wheel wells clearly, but Nakajima-built Zeroes had the wells in Aotake, while Mitsubishi-built planes had them in the under surface color. I wonder if that might mitigate for Aotake for the B5N2?

[mongo]

On 3/24/2022 at 1:44 AM, seawinder said:

I don't know if any photos show the wheel wells clearly, but Nakajima-built Zeroes had the wells in Aotake, while Mitsubishi-built planes had them in the under surface color. I wonder if that might mitigate for Aotake for the B5N2?

Thanks for the response.  Yes, I've read that rule-of-thumb and it seems logical.  There is one image in my references of a pre-war NMF Kate that definitely has darker wheelwells suggesting aotake, but that is the only one I can find; no other images show a clear contrast in the wheelwells.

[seawinder]

Well, my go-to, fall-back response when things like this come up is, "I don't generally display my models upside down."

[scimitar]

Good one Sea!  Jeff, that well is in shadow as it's under the wing, no?  Also, nmf or aluminum painted a/c photos often appear to have high contrast between areas in sunlight and in shadow.   Again, just my supposition, but an nmf Kate would more likely have no paint in its well, and I gave my reason for believing that the well in any case wouldn't be in aotake, but again, what do I know!

I forgot that you'd have sign up for j-aircraft to see the posts and extensive research articles; wasn't always that way, but would be a great help to your modeling Japanese aircraft.

 

Regards!