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USN F-4 Stencil Colors


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Alrighty folks, OCD question time - what actual color were the Honeycomb NO STEP stencils on Navy F-4s? I've see red, black and yellow. Also, were the stencils for "CAUTION" and "WARNING" yellow/red w/ black text, or all red, or all black? I know the AM guys are pretty meticulous with their research and products, but I've seen all varieties from them (Furball, AoA, sheets on eBay, etc), as well as from the manufacturers (Tamiya, Academy, Hasegawa). Is this a case of the birds come from the factory one way/color and then get repainted in the fleet or during depot? Or is it a timeframe based thing - originally this style/color, then went to this style/color in 19xx? (I'm building a VF-11 F-4B from 1969 if that helps). Close-up references are pretty hard to come by, so just wondering if anyone that has been there/done that or put hand to paint has any insight. Appreciate any info, thanks!

 

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The original factory version of the NO STEP honeycomb markings when F-4s were painted Flat Gull Gray over Insignia White was yellow with black lettering. I think that was the style until they switched to the overall Gull Gray camouflage. USAF F-4s used this style on Gray/White F-4s and into the Southeast Asia camouflage scheme until they changed to all black stencils in the '70s.

 

The only red with black lettering honeycombs I've seen were on Royal Navy FG.1s I'd love to find some of those in 1/48! Do you know where I can find some?

 

Ben

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For your first question I agree that from the factory they were yellow with black letters but it would appear that when aircraft were repainted the honeycomb markings were changed to all red. This is an extract from a partial copy of NAVAIR 01-245DB-2-1.2 revision dated 1969 I downloaded several years ago:

 

51967581950_b508cf87b3_b.jpg

 

For the caution and warning markings, it becomes more complicated. Looking through the Navair manual, warning markings should normally be red whereas caution markings seem to be either black on grey surfaces or grey on white (as per Note 2 above). Fündekals are working on a full stencil sheet based on McDonnell factory data which will cover a newly delivered jet which they are expecting to release later this year. Going on the research Jennings does for other subjects this is likely to be the definitive F-4 stencil set for a 'from the factory' Phantom. For an in-service Navy Phantom I would tend to trust the research from AoA, Furball, Bullseye or one of the other more meticulous aftermarket decal designers above those from the kit manufacturers (unless one of the companies mentioned were involved with the kit's decal sheet). For your chosen subject I'd go with either the AoA or Furball stencils as by 1969 I'd expect all F-4Bs would have gone through at least one depot repaint cycle so I'd say the no step honeycomb marking would be all red for your subject. I recommend you also download the instructions for sheet 48033 from the Fündekals website https://fundekals.net/product/f-110a-f-4b-f-4c-a-bunch-of-spooks/. Even though it's primarily for early USAF F-4s it has some useful information on the Gull Gray over White scheme.

 

Ben, the only red and black markings of the honeycomb markings I know of for certain in 1/48 are on the 892 NAS FG.1 Phantom sheet 48007 by Hobbydecal (https://spruebrothers.com/hodal48007v1-1-48-hobbydecal-phantom-fg-1-892-nas-hms-faa-ark-royal-al48007v1/) which is probably almost impossible to find these days. Sheet PD48-906B from Procal Decals in Greece looks as if may have some https://www.procaldecals.gr/en/1-48/40-f-4rf-4-stencils-data-black-148-decals.html (see https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/PD48-906B?result-token=7Xtfe ) for a slightly better picture) but I can't tell if they're actually black or grey letters. It's easier in 1/72 as both the original Airfix FG.1 boxing and the Xtradecal stencil sheet X72287 have them!

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

Edited by Wild Weasel V
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I actually found a set of the HobbyDecal dry transfers, recently. Sprue Brothers had them listed a few months ago. He must’ve found one hidden somewhere, because they’ve been out of production for years. Unfortunately, dry transfers lose their stickiness over time, so the sheet with the red bits was unusable. I was able to transfer some other bits I needed to some clear decal film, but not the red NO STEP patches. They disintegrated, along with the  plane captain stencils, so I’m making do with 30+ year old Hasegawa decals for all of those.
 

Ben

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I would like to respond to this topic.  I can only verify markings at North Island rework facility from 1971. We did not use navair prints or McDonalds prints. North Island engineering created prints we were to use.  When we had gray and white F-4s, the top was stenciled gloss black, honey comb no step was black. the word caution was yellow the word warning was red. No door numbers were applied. As a general rule cautions, warnings, nato markings, and no push and no steps were the only stencils applied. The bottom all stencils were Yellow, except red warning. When we went to all gray aircraft, all stencils were black top and bottom. One note, we never painted f-4s 36440 the top was 16440.

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Dear Phantom masters,

I would please return one step back and ask for stencils repainted on the specific F-4B 3009 right after it was repainted at NAS Miramar in 1971 (I think).

It's probably a photo, but I can't see any stencils on the wings or body.

 

Would it be right to assume that they were added still or could they have been left out?

 

001b-1.jpg

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20 hours ago, sergio3009 said:

Dear Phantom masters,

I would please return one step back and ask for stencils repainted on the specific F-4B 3009 right after it was repainted at NAS Miramar in 1971 (I think).

It's probably a photo, but I can't see any stencils on the wings or body.

 

Would it be right to assume that they were added still or could they have been left out?

 

If applicable, airframe data stencils would've been applied during the depot repaint, not added later on at squadron level.

That particular 153009 airframe and time period you're asking for it had very minimal airframe data stencils. Here's a scan from the Classic Warships F-4B/N book review on modelwarships showing better views of 3009 at the same period (1971). In the full size book it's more clear, you can only see only a very few were applied, like the caution at the wing fold for example:

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/aircraft-pictorial/06-F4BN/CWF4B_N_0007.jpg

The particular pylons installed in the top July 1971 pic though is different story and look like they're fully marked.

 

 

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As others said, it depends on when/where. Here's some examples of the different CAUTION colors (and difference style of data markings) for upper surfaces. For these three cases, warning colors were all red (red WARNING and red text).

 

edit: there are exceptions of course, and the below isn't meant to be an "all" statement that every a/c followed this color or stencil after first repaint (also seen examples showing red WARNING but with black text).

 

An original McD factory data (this would be as provided by fundekals), cautions are all black:

F-4data3.jpg

 

A depot repaint with full data/panel markings (this would be as provided by AOA decals), only "CAUTION" is red, but text is black.

F-4data1.jpg

 

A different depot repaint (smaller height lettering), only "CAUTION" is yellow, but text is black.

F-4data2.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by ziggyfoos
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3 hours ago, ziggyfoos said:

 

If applicable, airframe data stencils would've been applied during the depot repaint, not added later on at squadron level.

That particular 153009 airframe and time period you're asking for it had very minimal airframe data stencils. Here's a scan from the Classic Warships F-4B/N book review on modelwarships showing better views of 3009 at the same period (1971). In the full size book it's more clear, you can only see only a very few were applied, like the caution at the wing fold for example:

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/aircraft-pictorial/06-F4BN/CWF4B_N_0007.jpg

The particular pylons installed in the top July 1971 pic though is different story and look like they're fully marked.

 

 

ziggyfoos, thank you for the exact reply, however the site does not allow hotlinking. Could you point me to the date when this book was reviewed or the name of the book?

Thanks again :worship:

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4 minutes ago, sergio3009 said:

ziggyfoos, thank you for the exact reply, however the site does not allow hotlinking. Could you point me to the date when this book was reviewed or the name of the book?

Thanks again :worship:

Oops try this

http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/aircraft-pictorial/06-F4BN/Book Review_F4BNPhantomII.htm

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Awesome, thanks!

I have one photo of the 3009 side-view also in the Double Ugly US Navy Phantoms book and as you mentioned above, there seem to be very few repainted stencils. Not sure how to behave on wing slats and flaps...

 

ie. Tamiya has one Sundowner version 1/48 F-4B completely without stencils, so I would rather follow that plan. Not that I DON'T WANT to soak and stick 400 decals :D

 

 

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