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New tool F-16AM MLU in 1:48 announced by Kinetic


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3 hours ago, Crash Test Dummy said:

 

Fixed it for you, it is a problem for some of us. Aftermarket adds up quick. 3D cockpit decals or even just a PE seat belt set, stiffeners and correct stores & decals could easily pass the $39.99 sticker price Raymond is using.


@Raymond Chung Kinetic's approach to the F-16 feels like a step backwards compared to many of Kinetics other recent releases. So far you have two boxing of identical parts that even with all the options in the box still end up being incomplete or wrong for the kit markings. I would trade the MagFire weapons sprue for a kit specific sprue tailored to features specific for the markings in the box. If you can't include magnets, please, just drop MagFire and go back to conventional weapons breakdown. The MagFire weapons assembly looks like enough of a headache, you've made me want to get aftermarket to replace kit components. MagFire is not a selling point, it's a strike against these kits to me. I'm surprised the MagFire sprues made it to release.  

I think the seat belt with reinforcement plate from eduard cost less than 12? we are teaming up with cross delta to make reinforcement set. 
 

of course if you need 3D printer console, it is more expensive than the kit itself. 
 

as for the magfire weapon, the parts designed for magnet installation. I think also it is too complex for those who don’t need to magnet the missile. But it is designed for such purpose. 
 

I understand there are some customers who demand all-in-one (PE… option) 

 

But F-16 is different from other offering from us (eg F-104, IA-58, Harrier) F-16 has huge number of options where no one can offer all specified features. 
 

however our kit also include some feature not available on the market. 
 

So now the argument will be the customer asking why we don’t provide 100% feature of the box version while we provide 95% feature to cover most variant. 
 

same as most maker we cannot make 100% customer happy. 
 

as for the magfire missile, yes if you don’t like it you can use any from the spare box or aftermarket. 

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8 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:


How much does the Tamiya kit add up to?  Forgetting the MLU specific stuff because Tamiya doesn’t do a MLU, compare the Kinetic Block 25/42 kit to Tamiya’s Block 25/32 kit.  Want seat belts and scale plates for Tamiya?  You have to buy a separate PE detail up set from Tamiya.  I don’t remember everyone ripping up Tamiya over their kit being incomplete like we’re doing with Kinetic.  And the price of the Tamiya kit is around $60 in US shops.

 

As for weapons, what are we actually missing?  ALQ-131?  Buy the Eduard one.  Not every MLU bird always carried ALQ-131 every time since the MLU program started.  PIDS pylons?  How long were MLU’d aircraft flying before PIDS pylons became a thing?  And not everyone carries them.  I’m looking at the Norwegian option in the new Kinetic kit, and the weapons options are correct of that aircraft.  Even though they commonly carry ALQ-131, there is a photo of the kit marking aircraft taken In Afghanistan showing it carrying wingtip AIM-9L/M, underwing GBU-12s and wing tanks, and and empty centerline pylon.  All of those things are in the box.  So, the kit isn’t wrong or unbuildable, it may just not have every option for every MLU aircraft during every time period.  Like most kits out there, it’s not perfect, but I’ll say it probably a better 1/48 MLU in a box than any other current 1/48 kits.

What a coincidence, I actually ordered a Tamiya Block 25/32 shipped from Japan to USA for $53.00 a few minutes before coming back here, should be here in about a week. Tamiya's Detail Up fret seems to be OOP (Availability is the main problem with relying on aftermarket years later when you actually need it).  I've seen the F-16C kit available to pre-order in the USA for about $55 shipped, but the MLU is higher for identical plastic (WTF) from the same vendor. To get the Kinetic shipped NOW, it looks like $70 from Asia. As an apples to apples comparison the Kinetic needs a LITENING pod to be correct for the ANG which is already in the Tamiya boxing.  That's $13+ from eduard. All other aftermarket is going to be about the same, but I already have some stuff in the stash.

 

Really I expected a modular mold with the A and C tail parts to only be issued in the appropriate boxing instead of 1 universal set of sprues. There are so many variants I'm surprised Kinetic didn't do a more modular breakdown.  Like a LANTIRN sprue only in Block 40 kits.

 

Stuff I think is missing for the kit decals:

1xALQ-131 ECM pod (ANG, MLU)

1xLITENING Targeting pod (ANG, MLU)

1xpair of PIDS pylons (ANG and MLU) started in early '00s

1xAN/ALE-50 Decoy Housing (USAF)

 

Would be nice for expanded options:

1xpair of PIDS+ pylons (more recent ANG and MLU aircraft, MLU) more modern

1xpair of Sparrow pylons (ADF and some foreign operators)

2xBRU-57 twin stores adapter (USAF)

2xADF Bird Slicers (ANG+4 foreign operators)

 

I know Kinetic has a 2 seat sprue, but they have not mentioned any other new sprues.  I'd like to see the existing set revised to add at least the ADF bird slicers to include ADF planes as part of the "generic" sprues.

 

If you want to get really esoteric there are the Sharpshooter/Pathfinder variant of LANTIRN. You still are missing CFTs and various dorsal spines for the late model D+ two seaters.  There's also a bunch of unique lumps and bumps for Block 52+ two seaters and 600 gallon fuel tanks for IDF variants. I really don't expect all parts in every kit, but it would be nice if the parts matched the decals.

 

Since kit weapons are frequently not the best, I'd rather see no weapons in the box. Really just swapping the Magfire misfire for a more conventional sprue of the same weapons would make room for some of these parts. I really don't think you can or should try to cover all weapons options, but please provide all the unique F-16 pylons and adapters in the box. I think the trend I've seen with some companies that include lots of inappropriate weapon sprues (looking at a certain F-22) and just inflate the part count and price is just as bad.

 

 

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you've gotta commend Kinetic for not giving up, first the nose fiasco then the revised nose was bad, now Im hoping this kit is correct, as for parts antenna weapons etc, thats part of the fun for me, picking a particular aircraft and time and trying to model it correctly, its as much research as building, I kept my Kinetic F-16I, in case I need parts or antenna, a head to head with Tamiya on body shape and panels is what's needed, if the aftermarket can fix its cool. on an unrelated note, disappointing the ZM WW has an unfixable problem, strengthening plates is simple, and not being molded in gives you a chance to accurize, if the rest of the kit is good thats awesome, who cares, buy some photo etch or resin

Edited by DarkKnight
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2 hours ago, Crash Test Dummy said:

What a coincidence, I actually ordered a Tamiya Block 25/32 shipped from Japan to USA for $53.00 a few minutes before coming back here, should be here in about a week. Tamiya's Detail Up fret seems to be OOP (Availability is the main problem with relying on aftermarket years later when you actually need it).  I've seen the F-16C kit available to pre-order in the USA for about $55 shipped, but the MLU is higher for identical plastic (WTF) from the same vendor. To get the Kinetic shipped NOW, it looks like $70 from Asia. As an apples to apples comparison the Kinetic needs a LITENING pod to be correct for the ANG which is already in the Tamiya boxing.  That's $13+ from eduard. All other aftermarket is going to be about the same, but I already have some stuff in the stash.

 

Really I expected a modular mold with the A and C tail parts to only be issued in the appropriate boxing instead of 1 universal set of sprues. There are so many variants I'm surprised Kinetic didn't do a more modular breakdown.  Like a LANTIRN sprue only in Block 40 kits.

 

Stuff I think is missing for the kit decals:

1xALQ-131 ECM pod (ANG, MLU)

1xLITENING Targeting pod (ANG, MLU)

1xpair of PIDS pylons (ANG and MLU) started in early '00s

1xAN/ALE-50 Decoy Housing (USAF)

 

Would be nice for expanded options:

1xpair of PIDS+ pylons (more recent ANG and MLU aircraft, MLU) more modern

1xpair of Sparrow pylons (ADF and some foreign operators)

2xBRU-57 twin stores adapter (USAF)

2xADF Bird Slicers (ANG+4 foreign operators)

 

I know Kinetic has a 2 seat sprue, but they have not mentioned any other new sprues.  I'd like to see the existing set revised to add at least the ADF bird slicers to include ADF planes as part of the "generic" sprues.

 

If you want to get really esoteric there are the Sharpshooter/Pathfinder variant of LANTIRN. You still are missing CFTs and various dorsal spines for the late model D+ two seaters.  There's also a bunch of unique lumps and bumps for Block 52+ two seaters and 600 gallon fuel tanks for IDF variants. I really don't expect all parts in every kit, but it would be nice if the parts matched the decals.

 

Since kit weapons are frequently not the best, I'd rather see no weapons in the box. Really just swapping the Magfire misfire for a more conventional sprue of the same weapons would make room for some of these parts. I really don't think you can or should try to cover all weapons options, but please provide all the unique F-16 pylons and adapters in the box. I think the trend I've seen with some companies that include lots of inappropriate weapon sprues (looking at a certain F-22) and just inflate the part count and price is just as bad.

 

 

We have the AAQ-28, AAQ-13, AAQ-14, AAQ-32 lncluded, but no sure if it is the specified variant of the POS that you required. 

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Could we please 🙏 get an honest unbiased review of what's in the box, and less b!tching about what's not in the box?

🙊  🙉  🙈

 

.

 

Edited by habu2
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38 minutes ago, Raymond Chung said:

We have the AAQ-28, AAQ-13, AAQ-14, AAQ-32 lncluded, but no sure if it is the specified variant of the POS that you required. 

My apologies, missed it (AAQ-28) when I looked through the sprues and it's not mentioned at all in the instructions for the MLU.  POS is slang for much of the USA that is not what I think you intended.

 

4 minutes ago, habu2 said:

Could we please 🙏 get an honest unbiased review of what's in the box, and less b!tching about what's not in the box?

🙊  🙉  🙈

It's so much more useful to bad girl about other modelers and belittle their criticisms. I'd love to see an unbiased review, by someone knowledgeable if there are any left that haven't been chased off the message boards.

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So I bought the Kinetic 1/48 scale F-16AM Block 15 NATO Viper when it was first released many years ago, 2008. I have yet to build it because of all the negative reviews. Do I throw it away, and purchase the new F-16A MLU kit, because they might have fixed the issues that they shouldn't have messed up back in 2008?

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16 minutes ago, Brad-M said:

So I bought the Kinetic 1/48 scale F-16AM Block 15 NATO Viper when it was first released many years ago, 2008. I have yet to build it because of all the negative reviews. Do I throw it away, and purchase the new F-16A MLU kit, because they might have fixed the issues that they shouldn't have messed up back in 2008?

Take the PIDS ALQ-131 from it ! 

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1 hour ago, habu2 said:

Could we please 🙏 get an honest unbiased review of what's in the box, and less b!tching about what's not in the box?

🙊  🙉  🙈

 

.

 

Yep, i am interesting to see the initial response to see “what is not provided” instead of what is included. 
 

Our aims of this F-16 series is to provide a quick build base kit and pave the way for add-on according to each customer demand. 

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6 hours ago, Raymond Chung said:

I think the seat belt with reinforcement plate from eduard cost less than 12? we are teaming up with cross delta to make reinforcement set. 
 

of course if you need 3D printer console, it is more expensive than the kit itself. 
 

as for the magfire weapon, the parts designed for magnet installation. I think also it is too complex for those who don’t need to magnet the missile. But it is designed for such purpose. 
 

I understand there are some customers who demand all-in-one (PE… option) 

 

But F-16 is different from other offering from us (eg F-104, IA-58, Harrier) F-16 has huge number of options where no one can offer all specified features. 
 

however our kit also include some feature not available on the market. 
 

So now the argument will be the customer asking why we don’t provide 100% feature of the box version while we provide 95% feature to cover most variant. 
 

same as most maker we cannot make 100% customer happy. 
 

as for the magfire missile, yes if you don’t like it you can use any from the spare box or aftermarket. 


 

The new Kinetic kit looks very promising and I will get some when theses areavailable in Germany.
 

Please offer a tinted canopy with later versions of the kit as well. 

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On 12/4/2022 at 11:28 PM, Raymond Chung said:

Take the PIDS ALQ-131 from it ! 

Here's a better idea, why not refund my money from the purchase of the older kit, so I can put it towards the newer kit? How's that sound?😄

Edited by Brad-M
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I bought the new F-16 when I was in Telford.  The detail side by side with the Tamiya is very sharp, fine and complete. It holds up well to the Tamiya in that respect.  Another modeler is building this kit on one of the forum's and he reports that it fits together with great precision.   This new kit has nothing in common with the earlier Kinetic F-16's - nothing.  I hope to get building this kit after the holidays so I cannot personally comment on accuracy to all the details, nor am I an expert at all the small detail differences between each block, each country using this aircraft etc.  To me, things like the re-inforcement plates are better provided as aftermarket items, as it appears that their timing and application specific to each of the user air forces.  This kit has a lot in the box and I think it just may be my go to kit for an F-16 in the future.  Price seems comparable to the Tamiya here in the US.   Raymond has produced a great kit here.   As other variants are produced especially the two seat big spine birds there will be no competition to this kit.   I am hopeful Raymond looking into the future may produce kits like an A-1E Skyraider or a photo Crusader, but those are limited market items for him.  F-16's, F-104's, Mirages are used by so many countries that making kits of them is just great business.     

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3 hours ago, Brad-M said:

Here's a better idea, why not refund my money from the purchase of the older kit, so I can put it towards the newer kit? How's that sound?

Are you serious?  That's hardly a sustainable business model...

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5 hours ago, Brad-M said:

Here's a better idea, why not refund my money from the purchase of the older kit, so I can put it towards the newer kit? How's that sound?

 

Utterly ridiculous is how it sounds. 

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9 hours ago, Brad-M said:

Here's a better idea, why not refund my money from the purchase of the older kit, so I can put it towards the newer kit? How's that sound?

25 minutes ago, Brad-M said:

There was supposed to to be a smile/wink emoji at the end of my sentence, but it failed to appear. Sorry about that Raymond.

 

Even with emoji sounds great 😄

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I got my kit today, it looks on the whole very good on the sprues. 

 

Having spent ages previously backdating the Tamiya C a few times to F-16A Block 1 and 5 standard, an OOB decent F-16A is something I've been waiting for, for a long time! The fact it doesn't include MLU plates is, in my opinion, not the story here at all. At last a decent F-16A in 1/48 from the box.

 

Shapewise it looks very similar to the Tamiya kit on initial inspection, I won't comment on proper shape accuracy until I build it however and can form a proper opinion. I have noticed a few things that might be of interest:

 

Canopy--It looks different to Kinetic's initial F-16 offerings, a bit thinner, shorter and looks to be the same length as Tamiya's. It is very clear but suffers from a little distortion compared to Tamiya's. However, big plus points to Kinetic as they get the aft transparency framing correct. Tamiya's (in all scales) is 2-3 times as thick as it should be, kinetic's looks bang on and visually looks an improvement over Tamiya. Maybe a little thing but it always stuck out like a sore thumb to me when looking at my Tamiya kits. The bubble looks good too.

 

Panel lines--Like their TF-104, on the whole very good, slightly more shallow than Tamiya actually but maybe a wee bit softer in general, they are certainly nicely done however, especially the 'A' fuselage insert looks good. A million miles away from the old kit.

 

LEF, it doesn't have the few degrees up when powered down. Not sure how to fix that easily other than a carefully slight bend maybe. Tamiya's kit does have this IIRC if you cut off the tab at the LEF wing root. 

 

 

To build early Block A's, 1/5/10, we still need to have some important extra parts that hopefully will be available in future 'early type' releases. The MLU kit does contain the early gun flash but from a quick inspection we still need:

 

-small stabs

-early ECS exhaust

- early type weapon pylons (without the aerodynamic fairings over the sway braces)

- various early antennae for example under the intake.

 

Disclaimer 🙂 --There are many parts on the sprues so I may have missed one or two things mentioned above that are actually there. 

 

Do you plan on releasing an early F-16A/B boxing Raymond? The kit looks very good on first look!

 

Edited by MirageIV
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36 minutes ago, MirageIV said:

 

 

-small stabs

Easy to cut down from the kit stabs and sharpen the leading and trailing edges.

 

-early ECS exhaust

Shouldn't be too hard to build from scratch...?

 

- early type weapon pylons (without the aerodynamic fairings over the sway braces)

Rob parts from a Hasegawa kit and detail to taste?  Or modify kit parts?

 

- various early antenna for example under the intake.

Blade antenna not difficult to make, the IFF "lump" can be made from thick plastic filed to an oval, and a piece of thinner plasticard glued at 90 degrees , then file to an arc profile.  Making the recesses for the screws can be a bit awkward.

There are also panel line differences on the upper right hand fuselage just behind the cockpit, as well as the air intake .  And some temperature probes in different locations to make a Block 1, 5 or 10.

 

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25 minutes ago, jenshb said:

There are also panel line differences on the upper right hand fuselage just behind the cockpit, as well as the air intake .  And some temperature probes in different locations to make a Block 1, 5 or 10.

 

 

Yep, well many other small differences too but these small mods to the plastic itself will be down to us. I was more referring to additional plastic parts needed rather than mini backdating mods to the parts already in the kit. 

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1 hour ago, MirageIV said:

I got my kit today, it looks on the whole very good on the sprues. 

 

Having spent ages previously backdating the Tamiya C a few times to F-16A Block 1 and 5 standard, an OOB decent F-16A is something I've been waiting for, for a long time! The fact it doesn't include MLU plates is, in my opinion, not the story here at all. At last a decent F-16A in 1/48 from the box.

 

Shapewise it looks very similar to the Tamiya kit on initial inspection, I won't comment on proper shape accuracy until I build it however and can form a proper opinion. I have noticed a few things that might be of interest:

 

Canopy--It looks different to Kinetic's initial F-16 offerings, a bit thinner, shorter and looks to be the same length as Tamiya's. It is very clear but suffers from a little distortion compared to Tamiya's. However, big plus points to Kinetic as they get the aft transparency framing correct. Tamiya's (in all scales) is 2-3 times as thick as it should be, kinetic's looks bang on and visually looks an improvement over Tamiya. Maybe a little thing but it always stuck out like a sore thumb to me when looking at my Tamiya kits. The bubble looks good too.

 

Panel lines--Like their TF-104, on the whole very good, slightly more shallow than Tamiya actually but maybe a wee bit softer in general, they are certainly nicely done however, especially the 'A' fuselage insert looks good. A million miles away from the old kit.

 

LEF, it doesn't have the few degrees up when powered down. Not sure how to fix that easily other than a carefully slight bend maybe. Tamiya's kit does have this IIRC if you cut off the tab at the LEF wing root. 

 

 

To build early Block A's, 1/5/10, we still need to have some important extra parts that hopefully will be available in future 'early type' releases. The MLU kit does contain the early gun flash but from a quick inspection we still need:

 

-small stabs

-early ECS exhaust

- early type weapon pylons (without the aerodynamic fairings over the sway braces)

- various early antenna for example under the intake.

 

Disclaimer 🙂 --There are many parts on the sprues so I may have missed one or two things mentioned above that are actually there. 

 

Do you plan on releasing an early F-16A/B boxing Raymond? The kit looks very good on first look!

 

so its a good base to start with for an IAF F-16 Block 10 aircraf?

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