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New tool F-16AM MLU in 1:48 announced by Kinetic


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21 minutes ago, DarkKnight said:

so its a good base to start with for an IAF F-16 Block 10 aircraf?

 

Looks to be! Much better on initial inspection than Hasegawa, old Kinetic and the work needed to backdate a Tamiya C. Needs little mods to be the base kit plastic ((there's no way anyone I think can tool an F-16 base kit to take account for all the major and minor differences through the Blocks) and a few parts like smaller tailerons, early ECS etc...

 

All I've done is quickly looked at the MLU sprues though so I don't want to be definitive on anything until I build it honestly. Plus, I'm no Viper expert for sure, just backdated a few Tamiya C's and know the work involved and appreciative of what Kinetics gives us OOB compared to that. 

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If you are intending to build a Block 15, then from what I have seen in the box, yes.  But you will probably have to add the plate behind the canopy as well as the upper wingroots from aftermarket parts.  If your subject started life as a Block5 or 10 aircraft (they were often refitted with the larger horizontal stabs, but the Danish Air Force didn't always do that jugding by photos of MLU'ed F-16s with the original small stabs still).  The kit gives you the A instrument panel as well as early and current gun blast panels and the early wheels too.  At that timeframe the middle wing pylons would be the later version included in the kit (pre-PIDS and ECIPS). You will need to check your references for the specific aircraft you want to build.

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Not an expert in Dutch F-16s, so can't comment, but Airliners.net for example should come up with some pics of the aircraft you want to build.  That period may also coincide with the introduction of the LAU-129 launchers capable of carrying both AMRAAM and Sidewinders (non-MLU'ed F-16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force got this capability before the MLU program), and those launchers as well as AMRAAMs are included in the kit.

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1 hour ago, Brad-M said:

Was thinking J-248

 

J-248 was a 1978 F-16 block 10A. There would be some modification work to be done to the kit to make it correct for the 1998 time period.  By that time she was upgraded with the larger stabs and newer style ECS vent by the main gear bay. but still had the blade UHF antenna and that box like radar warning receiver under the air intake and also had the air data probe on the side of it.  Also had the original F-16A IP in the cockpit. Oh also need the two blade like antennas deleted just after and below the radome. 

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1 hour ago, achterkirch said:

Yup. I just looked at my modern early vipers guide not to much of a difference but there is some. 

 

Although Kinetic hasn't yet announced a 2-seater the rear panel difference is more significant between Blk 1-5-10 and Blk 15. 

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7 hours ago, achterkirch said:

J-248 was a 1978 F-16 block 10A. There would be some modification work to be done to the kit to make it correct for the 1998 time period.  By that time she was upgraded with the larger stabs and newer style ECS vent by the main gear bay. but still had the blade UHF antenna and that box like radar warning receiver under the air intake and also had the air data probe on the side of it.  Also had the original F-16A IP in the cockpit. Oh also need the two blade like antennas deleted just after and below the radome. 

The Norwegian Block 10s had the trapeze-shaped UHF blade antenna replaced with one with a swept-back leading edge, J248 may have done the same for that period.  The black "lump" behind it is an IFF antenna according to my information.  The twin blade antennas are a radar altimeter on Block 15 and above, so should be removed for a Block 10.  The light on the leading edge of the tailfin also needs to go - Block 15 and above only.  The inner hinge point on the leading edge flaps need to be filled in as that is a C/D and beoynd feature - A and Bs have only two hinge points here.  And the "beercan" antennas on the leading edge flaps need to be removed.  As do the four Advanced IFF antennas in front of the cockpit.  Oh, and I forgot - the landing lights would be on the main gears, not the front gear door.  I believe the parts for these are on the transparent runners.  In spite of my complaint of missing strengthening plates (which I stand by as they are very likely to be needed for the decal options - in part if not all), Kinetic have produced a kit that enables the modeller to build more than what is advertised on the box by following your references.

Edited by jenshb
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18 hours ago, jenshb said:

If your subject started life as a Block5 or 10 aircraft (they were often refitted with the larger horizontal stabs, but the Danish Air Force didn't always do that jugding by photos of MLU'ed F-16s with the original small stabs still).  

Correct, they (RDanAF) still have the small tailplanes on just about all the early block 1/5/10 still flying. Effectively E-1xx/E-2xx series. E6xx-series has the later large ones. 

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8 hours ago, jenshb said:

 The black "lump" behind it is an IFF antenna according to my information.  The twin blade antennas are a radar altimeter on Block 15 and above, so should be removed for a Block 10.  

 

The "black lump" is an RWR antennae on Block 10 airframes.

 

If you are referring to the twin blade antennae on the lower fuselage just behind the radome, those are glideslope/localizer antennae. The radar altimeter is mounted behind two small flush panels aft of the G/L antennae, with the round panel for the lower TACAN antennae between the RALT panels.

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On 12/4/2022 at 3:00 PM, Dave Williams said:

.  Like most kits out there, it’s not perfect, but I’ll say it probably a better 1/48 MLU in a box than any other current 1/48 kits.

Thanks to you Dave, as well as to all the other F-16 experts in this thread. I've placed my order based on al the views presented ... and am waiting anxiously for the 2 seater.

Great, balanced thread!

 

Gene K

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On 12/6/2022 at 11:24 PM, jenshb said:

Not an expert in Dutch F-16s, so can't comment, but Airliners.net for example should come up with some pics of the aircraft you want to build.  That period may also coincide with the introduction of the LAU-129 launchers capable of carrying both AMRAAM and Sidewinders (non-MLU'ed F-16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force got this capability before the MLU program), and those launchers as well as AMRAAMs are included in the kit.

 

Same with the Dutch F-16s, although I think only the Block 15 OCU aircraft could carry AMRAAMs (besides the MLU jets of course). Don't know if they put LAU-129s on the Block 10s since we had a lot of the 16S210 older style launchers laying around. Finding references is the safest bet.

 

When looking at the Kinetic plastic, some filling and rescribing is in order to produce a Block 10/15. The left intake requires work for example. I haven't yet seen the Kinetic instructions; hope all these changes needed to come up with a true-to-scale F-16A(M) are documented.

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3 hours ago, pollie said:

 

Same with the Dutch F-16s, although I think only the Block 15 OCU aircraft could carry AMRAAMs (besides the MLU jets of course). Don't know if they put LAU-129s on the Block 10s since we had a lot of the 16S210 older style launchers laying around. Finding references is the safest bet.

 

When looking at the Kinetic plastic, some filling and rescribing is in order to produce a Block 10/15. The left intake requires work for example. I haven't yet seen the Kinetic instructions; hope all these changes needed to come up with a true-to-scale F-16A(M) are documented.

Here you can find all pages of instruction:

F-16 Builders Support Group | Facebook

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4 hours ago, Solo said:

Here you can find all pages of instruction:

F-16 Builders Support Group | Facebook

 

Thank you Solo!

 

I had a look at the instructions and they confirmed what I expected. Build out-of-the-box and you have an F-16C intake. 

 

Quite some mistakes in the instructions: dragchute was carried by Dutch and Norwegian planes, Carapace system by the Belgians in the same location. Kinetic tells you to install Carapace for a Dutch Viper.

 

Sniper was carried not only by the Norwegian jets, but by Belgian and Dutch as well. 

 

Curious how the Kinetic Viper looks when glued together.

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25 minutes ago, pollie said:

I had a look at the instructions and they confirmed what I expected. Build out-of-the-box and you have an F-16C intake. 


So what is wrong with that? There is small mouth intake in that box and that is proper intake for MLU. I am wrong?

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45 minutes ago, Solo said:


So what is wrong with that? There is small mouth intake in that box and that is proper intake for MLU. I am wrong?

 

There is a difference in intakes between the F-16AM and F-16C.  I have never seen a hinged access panel on the left side of the F-16AM except for a Block 10 MLU prototype. The F-16C has it.

 

There are also small oval, springloaded panels on the left and right side of the intake which are F-16C specific. Kinetic tooled it on their intake but shouldn't be there for an MLU.

 

The intake navigationlight bulge is also non-existent on many older F-16s. Some MLU models have a strengthening plate there, but this is way too thick. 

 

I applaud Kinetic for giving us a new-tool F-16. However, a kit of an F-16C with some MLU parts thrown in still doesn't give us a proper F-16AM. 

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You have to keep your versions straight here; 

The original release was an F-16AM MLU Viper. In parallel they released a block 25/32/42 - both have the "small" mouth intake wich is in the kit. 

There will more than likely be later releases of later block 30/40/50 Vipers which have the "big mouth". 

 

As for block 5/10/15 - they were all upgrade to MLU standard, both A and B versions. Depending on country, they have some differences that cannot be removed through the upgrade. These are different panels etc. - check you references. 

LAU-129 is required in order to be able to carry the AIM-120 and IRIS-T missiles. 16S210 can be used for AIM-9 and Python IV/V missiles. Not sure if the IRIS-T can be carried on the 16S210 rail, never seen it but hopefully someone can advise? 

 

If you need a good site for F-16 reference, visit www.f-16.net 

Edited by Niels
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1 minute ago, pollie said:

 

There is a difference in intakes between the F-16AM and F-16C.  I have never seen a hinged access panel on the left side of the F-16AM except for a Block 10 MLU prototype. The F-16C has it.

 

There are also small oval, springloaded panels on the left and right side of the intake which are F-16C specific. Kinetic tooled it on their intake but shouldn't be there for an MLU.

 

The intake navigationlight bulge is also non-existent on many older F-16s. Some MLU models have a strengthening plate there, but this is way too thick. 

 

I applaud Kinetic for giving us a new-tool F-16. However, a kit of an F-16C with some MLU parts thrown in still doesn't give us a proper F-16AM. 

 Thanks a lot.

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14 hours ago, Niels said:

You have to keep your versions straight here; 

The original release was an F-16AM MLU Viper. In parallel they released a block 25/32/42 - both have the "small" mouth intake wich is in the kit. 

I disagree. If I look at all the bulges, beercans etc you need to scrape off and the panels they got wrong this kit seems like an F-16C that they also released as MLU without clearly marking all the differences. 

As I pointed out, small mouth is not small mouth. There are exterior differences between small mouth A and C intakes, and Kinetic failed to notice or chose to ignore.

 

Quote

As for block 5/10/15 - they were all upgrade to MLU standard, both A and B versions. Depending on country, they have some differences that cannot be removed through the upgrade. These are different panels etc. - check you references. 

 

Kinetic should have checked their references more thoroughly and clearly marked differences in the instructions! They've missed a few, so when building it you'll end up with some kind of AM/C hybrid airframe. 

 

I realise a lot of ppl in the 'close enough' category won't understand me but that's fine. It is probably the best MLU F-16 on the market and like I said before; I applaud Kinetic for bringing it to us. But having worked on these d*mn jets for 24 years I immediately spot things that aren't right, whereas these differences might be irrelevant to others. 

 

Is this kit now unbuildable? No way, I'll probably buy one if I didn't already have a million kits in the stash. I firmly believe Kinetic can go for Gold (see what I did there) if they would have researched the subject a bit more and devoted a page or two in their instructions concerning differences between AM and C, even country specific details. As it stands, I can't help but feel a bit disappointed, solely because I have such a love affair with the real thing and consider myself a rivet counter when it comes to this bird.

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35 minutes ago, pollie said:

I disagree. If I look at all the bulges, beercans etc you need to scrape off and the panels they got wrong this kit seems like an F-16C that they also released as MLU without clearly marking all the differences. 

As I pointed out, small mouth is not small mouth. There are exterior differences between small mouth A and C intakes, and Kinetic failed to notice or chose to ignore.

 

 

Kinetic should have checked their references more thoroughly and clearly marked differences in the instructions! They've missed a few, so when building it you'll end up with some kind of AM/C hybrid airframe. 

 

I realise a lot of ppl in the 'close enough' category won't understand me but that's fine. It is probably the best MLU F-16 on the market and like I said before; I applaud Kinetic for bringing it to us. But having worked on these d*mn jets for 24 years I immediately spot things that aren't right, whereas these differences might be irrelevant to others. 

 

Is this kit now unbuildable? No way, I'll probably buy one if I didn't already have a million kits in the stash. I firmly believe Kinetic can go for Gold (see what I did there) if they would have researched the subject a bit more and devoted a page or two in their instructions concerning differences between AM and C, even country specific details. As it stands, I can't help but feel a bit disappointed, solely because I have such a love affair with the real thing and consider myself a rivet counter when it comes to this bird.

Do you expect that we will have different intake for A and C on NSI for the different panel line ? 

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