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F-100F Weasel Vietnam weapon loadout questions (1:48)


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Last week I've started working on my the 1:48 Trumpeter F-100F and plan to build it like a Vietnam Weasel.

Early on in the deployment they were equipped with bombs + LAU-3 rocket launchers loaded with marking rockets, so they could mark a SAM site and accompanying F-105's could attack it.

Later on they were equipped with the AGM-45 Shrike together with (among other things) SUU-7 dispensers and this is the weapon load I'd like to use.

 

However, during my research I came upon some publications that state the F-100F's only used the AGM-45 missile on the port inner station and only refer to them in singular and not plural form.

Looking for photo proof, I've only been able to find pictures from real life F-100Fs with AGM-45's loaded on the port station and not the starboard station. 

The only pictures I was able to find from F-100F's carrying 2 AGM-45's, were from plastic models.

 

They also show that the F-100F's deployed in Vietnam used the AGM-45-1's with the black nose.

However, i'm wondering if this was the only AGM-45 variant they used.

 

My questions:

- Is it correct that F-100F's in Vietnam only used the AGM-45 Shrike loaded on the port inner wing station?

- If this is the case, what kind of ordnance was most likely carried on the starboard inner wing station when a Shrike was carried on the port station?

- Did they only use the black nosed AGM-45-1's or did they also use white nosed variants?

 

Because the Trumpeter F-100F doesn't have the Weasel parts, there will be some scratch building involved.

If anybody has any additional info or suggestions for the Weasel conversion, please let me know.

All help is more then welcome! 🙂

 

Thanks for any reply.

 

image.png.050ab2cffb89f602097546af91c0fc27.png

 

image.png.6e03dee04756e7bd8c60a73cd8987e0f.png

 

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When they refer to the AGM-45 in singular form it is likely due to the fact that the F-105 could carry these on dual launchers, while the F-100 only carried singles on the inner pylons. And they would have carried the same on both sides btw. If you have only seen it on one side, it is either due to not seeing the other side, the other side hasn't been loaded yet or it only came back with one missile, having expanded the other. 

In addition to the LAU-131, they could also carry the 7-shot LAU-68 btw. 

 

Check out www.f-100.org you might find more details there. 

 

 

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I’m stuck on my iPad right now, so click this link HERE. In addition to some other reference photos and info you might find of interest, I’ve added a note about that annotated photo you have above. I’ve learned in the time since I first labeled it that the “unknown antenna” was the data link antenna for the Bullpup missile.
 

In answer to your questions:

Yes, the best information I’ve been able to find is that they only carried one.

It looks like nothing was carried on the starboard inboard pylon when a Shrike was carried.

Yes, just the black nose Shrike, per my correspondence with author Mick Roth many years ago.

 

Ben

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Ben Brown said:

I’m stuck on my iPad right now, so click this link HERE. In addition to some other reference photos and info you might find of interest, I’ve added a note about that annotated photo you have above. I’ve learned in the time since I first labeled it that the “unknown antenna” was the data link antenna for the Bullpup missile.
 

In answer to your questions:

Yes, the best information I’ve been able to find is that they only carried one.

It looks like nothing was carried on the starboard inboard pylon when a Shrike was carried.

Yes, just the black nose Shrike, per my correspondence with author Mick Roth many years ago.

 

Ben

 

Thanks for the info Ben!

Now it is quite funny to look at all the F-100F models carrying 2 AGM-45's with white noses. 🙂

Edited by Susaschka
typo
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10 hours ago, Thadeus said:

http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/reference/usa/sead.html

I used this info, when I built mine. But that was mostly for serial numbers, as I wanted a rocket armed Wild Weasel. All the others eventually relied on the AGM's so I felt it was both different and, well, "cool".

 

Thanks for the link Thadeus, indeed very handy serial info! 🙂

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15 hours ago, Niels said:

When they refer to the AGM-45 in singular form it is likely due to the fact that the F-105 could carry these on dual launchers, while the F-100 only carried singles on the inner pylons. And they would have carried the same on both sides btw. If you have only seen it on one side, it is either due to not seeing the other side, the other side hasn't been loaded yet or it only came back with one missile, having expanded the other. 

In addition to the LAU-131, they could also carry the 7-shot LAU-68 btw. 

 

Check out www.f-100.org you might find more details there. 

 

 

Thanks Niels.

 

Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any info on www.f-100.org regarding the single AGM-45 configuration.

Ben's info does match the info I found and was told, so at least for now I'm going for the single Shrike onthe port inboard wing station together with two fueltanks and two SUU-7's on my model.

 

Also, do you perhaps mean LAU-3 in stead of LAU-131? I could be wrong, but I thought the LAU-131 was only developed in the 1970's?

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Hehe, yes, it should have been LAU-3, sorry about that 🙂

 

From reading about it, it seems that the AGM-45 wasn't much used on the F-100F? 

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Shortly after starting to use the AGM-45, the F-100F Weasel I's were withdrawn and replaced by modified F-105F Weasel II's.

If I researched correctly, the first use of an AGM-45 by a F-100F in Vietnam was 1966 and the the last operational use of the F-100F Weasels was also 1966.

That would have given them at best only a few months of use, which I think is not very long to get familiar with.

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The Shrike testing occurred late in the program. I've been able to track down very little info on them, other than the fact they used them. Until Detail & Scale published the photo of the F-100F loaded with a Shrike, the only photo I'd been able to find was in the video "First In, Last Out." If you get the digital version of the D&S book, you can zoom in on the photo and see all kinds of interesting detail. There is a sunscreen that covers the backseater's right side and then extends across the rear instrument panel; different from the anti-flash hood originally fitted to F-100s. You can also see that there were no electronics mounted to the top of the rear glare shield, as some sources have reported.  

 

The F-100F was more of a proof of concept test. It was too slow to operate with the Thuds that were acting as killers. Here's a good paper on the history of the suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD). The discussion about the Wild Weasel I program starts on p.18: Planting the Seeds of SEAD  It should open a pdf document.

 

I really need to hurry up and finish my current projects. You guys are inspiring me to build one of my F-100 kits! 😄

 

Ben

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Interesting that so many models of the F-100 comes with the AGM-45 as munitions when it was used so little? Guess it makes for a killer look 🙂

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Ben Brown said:

The F-100F was more of a proof of concept test. It was too slow to operate with the Thuds that were acting as killers. Here's a good paper on the history of the suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD). The discussion about the Wild Weasel I program starts on p.18: Planting the Seeds of SEAD  It should open a pdf document.

 

 

Thanks Ben, it is a very nice read and according to this article, the F-100F Weasel's were even shorter in service then I thought.

Edited by Susaschka
typo
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13 minutes ago, Niels said:

Interesting that so many models of the F-100 comes with the AGM-45 as munitions when it was used so little? Guess it makes for a killer look 🙂

 

Yup, only used very shortly and a AGM-45 indeed looks very nice on a F-100.

It's a shame that almost all of the model builders have given their Shrike missile noses the wrong white color.  🙂

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Mind You, some airframes were lost even before the AGM-45 was introduced. If one thinks only about the SEAD mission in terms of stand off munitions, the YGBSM motto doesn't have the same ring to it, as when You realize they were using rockets and cannons in the beggining. I don't say using Shrike was safe for the aircrew, but man... Get painted by SAM, and only then go in with rockets cannons and bombs? Yup. Ygbsm.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, they must have had balls made of steel!

 

Somewhere online I found this (most probably fake) patch from a Vietnam era F-4C Wild Weasel with the even longer abbreviation: WTFAID/TB YGBSM (What The F*ck Am I Doing / Tight Butts - You Gotta Be Shitting Me) 😄

 

image.png.8344675264fdf9f7cb849c717cb0bb00.png

Edited by Susaschka
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Anyone who flies the Wild Weasel role has very big brass cojones! The basic tactics developed by the F-100F and F-105G crews are still used, just with more sophisticated sensors and weapons. Basically, expose yourself as bait to get the anti-air batteries to turn on their radar, then try to shoot them before they shoot you. "The Hunter Killers" by Hampton (Thuds in Vietnam) and "Magnum" by Eisel (F-4Gs in Desert Storm) are good reads. Those guys are nuts! 

 

Ben

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So now I only need two Type 1 inner wing pylons like the ones shown below, as the AGM-45's were apparently fired from the same Type 1 launchers the AGM-12's used.

Anybody any suggestions where I could obtain these in 1:48 scale?

Or could somebody help modify or print these for me?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 👍

 

-------------------------------------------

 

Vid caps from the F-100 Great Planes videos on YouTube showing a type 1 pylon. (Credit Ben Brown from https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/87152-f-100f-wild-weasel/)

image.png.2da80629a490f432706791faba2d4c33.png

 

A type 1 pylon carrying a AGM-12 Bullpup. (Credit Ben Brown from https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/87152-f-100f-wild-weasel/)

image.png.74b268500e6bccfe01607b208cdac9bf.png

 

Two AGM-12's mounted on Type 1 pylons. (Credit John Lowery. https://www.airforcemag.com/article/the-one-way-nuclear-mission/)

image.png.a4751ef5b1f908f5e4726fa6d6112158.png

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I haven’t been able to find any drawings or anything showing the shape of that pylon, but I’ve been meaning to ask a friend who flew F-100s if he has anything. I’ll do that this morning and will report back.

 

You’re pushing me closer to starting a Weasel F-100. I broke one of my old War Eagle conversions out of the stash this past weekend. 😆

 

Ben

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I can't help you with dimensions of the said pylon but I found this photo of a F-100 carrying a Shrike as well as the rear cockpit lay-out. Maybe of some help to you else good to have this in this thread as reference for others:

BnxVm8B.jpg?1

 

aiyW3Ox.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nebbor said:

And found a photograph showing the pylon somewhat clearer:

avf100_05.jpg

 

It doesn't look like this is the same type of pylon.

The Type 1 is less high and has a different front angle.

I've highlighted both pylons in the pictures so the difference is more clear.

 

image.png.0102e6b12336a63c5a84ad38a0e37c6e.png

 

image.png.2dfb1e7de9dfa7c586c2d86cb839982c.png

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6 minutes ago, Susaschka said:

 

It doesn't look like this is the same type of pylon.

The Type 1 is less high and has a different front angle.

I've highlighted both pylons in the pictures so the difference is more clear.

 

image.png.0102e6b12336a63c5a84ad38a0e37c6e.png

 

image.png.2dfb1e7de9dfa7c586c2d86cb839982c.png

 

Then there are 3 different pylons I guess (not counting the dual AIM-9 pylon). The pylon as found in the Monogram and Trumpeter boxing has a vertical trailing edge unlike the 2 you highlighted in red, those are slanted. So after some digging I found these photographs:

 

1. Vertical trailing edge

norris_38.jpg

 

2. Slanted trailing edge

easterbomb1.jpg

 

3. The elusive pylon you want

f-100d_63054-1.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Looks like AGM-12's were also fired from the larger slanted pylon fitted with a AGM-12 rail, but this just looks to bulky for me and I don't even know if the AGM-45 was ever fired like this by Weasels.

 

image.thumb.png.99ff7b4df6fe0110c662b8894699b82c.png

 

I've been looking for F-100 1:48 model kits that might contain the pylons I'm looking for, but I haven't found any that do.

Anybody any suggestions other then scratch building?

Edited by Susaschka
typo
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