F-4J Phantom II Gun Pod Question; Mk.4 HIPEG vs. SUU-23

[Dutch]

I am doing a little research to build a early F-4J Phantom II of VMFA-232 at Chu Lai Vietnam circa 1969.  I found a photo on the "House of Phantom" website which shows F-4J 155811 with a centerline gun pod (bottom photo).  From the the slightly off head on view, I can't tell if the pod is the Colt Mk.4 HIPEG 20mm pod developed for the Navy or the SUU-23 20mm rotary cannon pod developed for the USAF. From the head on angle, both pods look very similar, the SUU-23 having a greater diameter.  I am leaning toward the Colt Mk.4 as it would have been USN certified for carriage on the F-4J.   

Kind regards, Dutch

Edited August 1, 2022 by Dutch

[Dave Williams]

Looks like a SUU-16 or -23 to me.  It’s a USMC F-4, not USN.  While I don’t think I’ve seen many photos of Navy Phantoms carrying the SUU pod, there are a number of photos of Marine F-4s carrying them.

[Dutch]

Thanks Dave.  Yes there is the famous 3 gun pod F-4B of VMFA-122 featured in Lou Drendal's artwork in the Squadron Signal F-4 Phantom II in Action (the first edition).  It is carrying either the SUU-16 or 23 pod. I suspect they were based at DaNang, and "borrowed" the pods from the resident 366th TFW.  Marine Phantoms would follow Navy servicing and arming guidelines according to NATOPS, hence my assumption on the US Navy procured Mk.4 HIPEG pod.   See a similar article here.  I have plenty of both pods in the stash from my Hasegawa weapons sets, but tend to use the SUU-23 on my USAF Phantoms and was looking for an excuse to use one of the HIPEGs.  I'll keep searching. K/r, Dutch

Edited August 1, 2022 by Dutch

[Michael A.]

It is the Mk4 pod.  Innovative design / maintenance nightmare!  When I attended EOD school in 1969 it was downplayed as an ineffective system due to maintenance issues.  With that said, a review if available historic records and photos indicate that two Chu Lai squadrons, one A-4 and one F-4 were able to work the bugs out and use it to good effect.  The Hasegawa aftermarket Mk4 needs a lot of attention.  Apparently, we sold a number of them to Israel and decent detail photos are available from some of the IDF's outdoor museums.  

 

Good luck, looking for photos of your finished product.

[Dutch]

35 minutes ago, Michael A. said:

It is the Mk4 pod.  Innovative design / maintenance nightmare!  When I attended EOD school in 1969 it was downplayed as an ineffective system due to maintenance issues.  With that said, a review if available historic records and photos indicate that two Chu Lai squadrons, one A-4 and one F-4 were able to work the bugs out and use it to good effect.  The Hasegawa aftermarket Mk4 needs a lot of attention.  Apparently, we sold a number of them to Israel and decent detail photos are available from some of the IDF's outdoor museums.  

 

Good luck, looking for photos of your finished product.

Hey Mike!  Thanks for the confirmation!  Kind regards, Dutch

[ziggyfoos]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:16 AM, Dutch said:

Thanks Dave.  Yes there is the famous 3 gun pod F-4B of VMFA-122 featured in Lou Drendal's artwork in the Squadron Signal F-4 Phantom II in Action (the first edition).  It is carrying either the SUU-16 or 23 pod. I suspect they were based at DaNang, and "borrowed" the pods from the resident 366th TFW.  Marine Phantoms would follow Navy servicing and arming guidelines according to NATOPS, hence my assumption on the US Navy procured Mk.4 HIPEG pod.

 

As you probably figured out by now, that artwork isn't accurate with the gun pods (or the VMFA-122 markings), the three pods should be HIPEGs. I believe in the same book, or one of the other older SS F-4 books, there is a photo caption that also mentions SUU pod when it's clearly a HIPEG in the photo. Although troublesome, use of the HIPEG was common enough with USMC F-4 and A-4 squadrons in Vietnam, also OV-10s. VMFA-122 only wired a handful of F-4Bs to use the guns on the wing pylons, I don't remember the number now offhand but as I recall too it wasn't used for that long in that configuration.

 

I do wish there would be a new good aftermarket HIPEG available to go with the new F-4 and OV-10 kits.

Edited August 13, 2022 by ziggyfoos

[Niels]

They were wired for centerline use too. The famous photo where F-4B 148378 of VMFA-122 carries 3 of them indicates regular use for supression of enemy forces.