Jump to content

Hmmmm, Meng 1/48 F-4G?


Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I dont own the ZM kit.

I am wanting to build an Israeli F-4E and was thinking about the Italeri kit as it comes  with the decals I need and isnt as hard to find as the Hasegawa kit. Then I heard about the ZM kit.

 

I am interested in reading about all the shape and fit problems with the ZM kit.

The more I read the more problems I see. Having said that the ZM kit would Im sure turn out better, but as its more than double the cost it should be.

It should also be better than it is given the cost though.

Meng, ZM, Italeri and Hasegawa all have their problems. I dont pretend they are perfrect in any way.

I’m not a big fan of the plastic that Italeri uses.  built their automobiles and they all were pretty crappy. If you need decals for Israeli Air Force I definitely try isradecal,  if the cost is an issue for the hasegawa or ZM try going to a model contest that has a dealer room or ebay you would be surprised at how cheap you could buy things after nobody wants them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, serendip said:

Good that everybody is in the Christmas spirit.

I am just amazed at the petty squabbling which has taken over this thread.

 

Just pathetic.

 

I don't mean you Habu by the way.


it is fascinating the amount of complaining maybe I’m a complainer too. But I’m happy on some level because we went from famine to feast when it comes to F-4G. I’m planning on building mine as a desert storm lizard camo

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DarkKnight said:

I’m not a big fan of the plastic that Italeri uses.  built their automobiles and they all were pretty crappy. If you need decals for Israeli Air Force I definitely try isradecal,  if the cost is an issue for the hasegawa or ZM try going to a model contest that has a dealer room or ebay you would be surprised at how cheap you could buy things after nobody wants them. 

No I think you have misunderstood what Im talking about

 

Ive never really thought about the IAF before, then a little while ago I got an F-15I kit and rather liked the idea of that camo scheme on an F-15, together with some rather different weapons.

Then I saw that Italeri re-released the F-4E with IAF decals that put the same camo scheme on an F-4E. Which is nice. And the fact that the kit is so cheap made me think about doing it. Havent got round to buying one yet as its only just been released there is no rush.

The F-4E isnt a jet that is of any real interest to me outside the Spangdahlem hunter killer pairs so I never really thought about the ZM F-4E kit at all.

I like the F-4G, its been a while since I built the Hasegawa kit, which was a great kit at the time, but now looking at either the Meng or ZM kit its lackluster by comparison, and the Italeri F-4G just isnt worth thinking about, The AMT kit is based on the ECSI kit (and gives us the newer releases of long nose Phantoms from Italeri), which is better than Italeris kit but still when you look at the Meng and ZM kit I would rather go with them.

 

However having said all that an IAF F-4E isnt high on my list, its mostly about the paint scheme, and I rather enjoy messing about with those old kits to detail them up. I remember most of them when they were on their first releases. Built them too.

 

I have seen mentioned by other people who have built the  ZM F-4E and particularly the F-4EJ that there are some fit issues with the ZM kit.

It doesnt put me off buying and building, but it does knock the crown off its head. Because its not the perfect kit that its being made out to be.
The Meng kit also has some problems, but then nobody is billing that up to be the king of kits.

Its the ZM F-4 fanboys that are getting upset about it all because their all singing all dancing kit doesnt deserve the accolade thats been given to it.

 

The only one I dont fancy building is the Italeri F-4G. All the others Ive mentioned I would have a bash at. But that is only because for the money thats required to buy it its just not worth it, when you can put that money towards a Meng/ZM kit.

 

Oh and the plastic Italeri use on their car and truck kits is very different to that used on their aircraft kits, and just lately its not unlike Hasegawa use on some of them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Umm...I haven't been here in awhile (kept up on the ARC FB page), so thought I'd swing by. After reading this thread, I thought I had mistakenly gone to a different site that rhymes with Lypersnail. The most constructive post was the one that listed the "good" and the "bad" of the Meng kit. What could have really elevated that post was a clarifier for each point listing it as "major" or "minor", though I realize that's still an opinion. I've watched the video of the unboxing and it looks beautiful. The list of the "bad" areas, at least for me, all seem insignificant to someone who is not overly knowledgeable about the Phantom. 99% of modelers will never even see those issues. With that said, it's excellent information to know if you really care about the subject and want to fix it. Here's to hoping that ARC trends back to the friendly place it was a few years ago. 😥

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Dave Williams said:

Not really sure why we’re talking about old Italeri kit which is the ESCI kit from 1980, especially since it was never released as a F-4G.

I never said it was Dave.
Italeri released their own F-4G.
ECSI also made an F-4G which was re-released by AMT.
Italeri later went on to buy the ESCI tooling and a few years ago modified it and released some kits from the retooling.

F-4E and RF-4C both of which were released with IAF decals. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

I never said it was Dave.
Italeri released their own F-4G.
ECSI also made an F-4G which was re-released by AMT.
Italeri later went on to buy the ESCI tooling and a few years ago modified it and released some kits from the retooling.

F-4E and RF-4C both of which were released with IAF decals. 

 

hardest thing about building an IAF F-4E is that over time, when refurbished the camo on some birds is not standard,very frustrating 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Darren Roberts said:

“…I've watched the video of the unboxing and it looks beautiful. The list of the "bad" areas, at least for me, all seem insignificant to someone who is not overly knowledgeable about the Phantom. 99% of modelers will never even see those issues...”


Darren has hit on an important point and one that goes a long way toward explaining why this thread, and others like it that debate the merits of a new kit, become so contentious.

 

It’s simply a matter of expectations. 

 

Recall the kerfuffle that ensued when Eduard unveiled their first edition of the Bf 109G in 1:48 scale. Most modelers, not being Messerschmitt expertens, were perfectly content to have a new tooled, highly detailed kit of this famous fighter. But subject matter experts pushed back, explaining why it could have (and should have) been more accurate and to scale.
 

Initially, Eduard pushed back against the pushbackers but eventually, to their credit , conceded and later released an all new kit, one that satisfied not only the masses, but the minority group of highly discriminating experten as well.

 

With MENG’s new Phantoms, and to an extent Zoukei Mura’s, we have something similar: state-of-the art, new tooled kits of highly sought after subjects that most modelers welcome with open arms. 
 

However, like the Gustav, the Phantom is a popular and extensively researched aircraft. It’s therefore subject to more intense scrutiny when released in kit form by a model manufacturer. So among Phantomalogists, errors are more easily spotted, criticism more freely dispensed and disappointment more easily experienced, simply as a result of subject familiarity and heightened expectations.

 

Both points of view are valid. And both are understandable. And both should be tolerated I believe.
 

And if there’s any blame to be had, I point the finger squarely at Tamiya…for releasing their sublime 1:48 F-4B last year. It set the bar high, perhaps unfairly out of reach for most other manufacturers.
 

Edited by RichB63
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DarkKnight said:

 

hardest thing about building an IAF F-4E is that over time, when refurbished the camo on some birds is not standard,very frustrating 

 

Im not so much bothered about that any more. Accuracy is a figment of most modellers imagination.
One only has to look at the ZM Phantom kits to realise that.
The short nose kits have problems with the back end, the long nose ones a problem with the front. But how many have fixed them. And if you dont then the shape is wrong so its not accurate because they couldnt even get the basic shape right.

Missing something like a stiffner plate is one thing but the actual shape of the plane is quite another.

Same happened on the AMK F-14D. Its wrong... I dont really care, just like I dont really care about the ZM Phantom or the Italeri one for that matter.

 

I like the camo pattern on that jet so Ill build it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

To me constructive critiscm is more than welcome.

 

However the self righteous attitude of some, does not compliment this thread.

 

I'm sure most of us remember the F14 AMK thread and what a hateful ego contest that became.

 

Maybe the (self declared) experts here could be a little more tolerant and again constructive instead of putting people down.

 

Doogs Models had an amusing post concerning what's going on here - anyone know the post I mean?

 

Let's just keep it friendly - how hard is that?

 

Marc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, serendip said:

To me constructive critiscm is more than welcome.

 

However the self righteous attitude of some, does not compliment this thread.

 

I'm sure most of us remember the F14 AMK thread and what a hateful ego contest that became.

 

Maybe the (self declared) experts here could be a little more tolerant and again constructive instead of putting people down.

 

Doogs Models had an amusing post concerning what's going on here - anyone know the post I mean?

 

Let's just keep it friendly - how hard is that?

 

Marc.

Cant say Im a regular viewer of his channel. What video are you talking about exactly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Intent on doing this one here. I think it looks smart in classic SEA camouflage and b&w stenciling with colorful training ordnance.

 

Speed Hunter Graphics sheet 48023 takes care of all the service and maintenance markings, while Caracal Models sheet 48143 (F-105F/G) supplies the appropriate command and unit badges…the rest is easily cobbled together from my spares box.

 

SHUxJOn.jpg
George AFB, CA circa 1978

 

Edited by RichB63
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RichB63 said:

Intent on doing this one here. I think it looks smart in classic SEA camouflage and b&w stenciling with colorful training ordnance.

 

Speed Hunter Graphics sheet 48023 takes care of all the service and maintenance markings, while Caracal Models sheet 48143 (F-105F/G) supplies the appropriate command and unit badges…the rest is easily cobbled together from my spares box.

 

SHUxJOn.jpg
George AFB, CA circa 1978

 

G'day Rich,

 

Are you aware that Speed-Hunter / Ried Air are doing a sheet which will include a similar scheme to this, in the near future?

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=515538507257484&set=a.416027423875260

Cheers,
Motty.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, serendip said:

Hi ES,

Curious as to what you (and others) think - enjoy:
https://doogsmodels.com/2021/06/18/airplanes-assholes/

 

Marc.

Yeah that was an interesting read and I have to say I cant really disagree with any of it.
In fact I would strongly agree that its mostly aircraft.
Truck modelling is even more fluid that armour...

 

Im not quite sure who is illuding to though... I wish people would have the guts to just say it sometimes rather than leave you wondering.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, RichB63 said:

Intent on doing this one here. I think it looks smart in classic SEA camouflage and b&w stenciling with colorful training ordnance.

 

Speed Hunter Graphics sheet 48023 takes care of all the service and maintenance markings, while Caracal Models sheet 48143 (F-105F/G) supplies the appropriate command and unit badges…the rest is easily cobbled together from my spares box.

 

SHUxJOn.jpg
George AFB, CA circa 1978

 

It would take you a week to put the stencils on!!!!

 

Its the archetype though.
To me when you say Wild Weasel that is the one I think of. SEA camo F-4G with a WW tail code.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Motty said:

G'day Rich,

 

Are you aware that Speed-Hunter / Ried Air are doing a sheet which will include a similar scheme to this, in the near future?

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=515538507257484&set=a.416027423875260

Cheers,
Motty.


Sweet Sixteen!
Thanks for the heads up Motty.

Cheers 🙂

 

vQc6qMl.jpg

Edited by RichB63
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/20/2022 at 12:34 PM, serendip said:

Hi ES,

Curious as to what you (and others) think - enjoy:
https://doogsmodels.com/2021/06/18/airplanes-assholes/

 

Marc.

Points made and understood. But the whole “friendlier” concept seems to be inhibited when someone can’t make their own argument without a string of profanity. He writes really well, but it gets wearying to wade through all the F bombs when you know the point is to be nicer to everybody. I didn’t make it through the video. Didn’t take long and I realized I had other things to do. 
 

Rick L. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Spruemeister said:

Points made and understood. But the whole “friendlier” concept seems to be inhibited when someone can’t make their own argument without a string of profanity. He writes really well, but it gets wearying to wade through all the F bombs when you know the point is to be nicer to everybody. I didn’t make it through the video. Didn’t take long and I realized I had other things to do. 
 

Rick L. 

That seems to be his schtick. He's an accomplished modeler and makes good points, but the whole "in your face" approach doesn't do it for me. I know some will say I'm prudish, but the way this world is going, we need every bit of kindness and friendliness we can get!

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/22/2022 at 3:44 PM, Spruemeister said:

Points made and understood. But the whole “friendlier” concept seems to be inhibited when someone can’t make their own argument without a string of profanity. He writes really well, but it gets wearying to wade through all the F bombs when you know the point is to be nicer to everybody. I didn’t make it through the video. Didn’t take long and I realized I had other things to do. 
 

Rick L. 

Having watched a couple of his videos i think the swearing comes from lack of due consideration to what he is saying.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...