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Advice on painting white (eg. XB-70)


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So I'm pondering what my next build should be and I'm really leaning towards the 1/72 Italeri XB-70.  The only part that has me breaking out into a cold sweat is large coverage of gloss white paint.  A couple of things come to mind:

 

1) I've never tackled this much white paint before!  The most white I ever paint is on landing gear and missiles.  I'd love to hear everyone's recommendations on everything from brands to techniques that would work best on covering such a large model.

 

2) Kind of a side thought....When it comes to paint brands, have you ever run into the problem of the white paint turning yellow over time?  Nothing would be more of a downer than to look upon the model of the XB-70 and see that it's now all yellow.

 

Thanks!

 

Eric

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Long ago I had trouble with white, I painted a Mustang GT-350 white then tried to shoot it with Testors gloss coat, it immediately turned a pale yellow.  That is an unusual problem now, I have kits I painted white two decades ago that are perfectly white today, I ultimately succeeded in building a GT-350R which is still white and in my collection from the 1994 and a Porsche 944 i built in 1997, it was my post graduation car purchase so I built a model of it.  I regularly use Tamiya whites and other brands with no yellowing.  You could go as simple as Tamiya spray can TS white or a gloss white, you could airbrush the new Tamiya Lacquer white, there are lots of other brands that will give you a very satisfactory white paint.  Unless you shoot a Testors dull coat or gloss coat you should not end up in yellow.  I quit using those for that reason, normally now you buy a good clear coat it is truly clear and does not retint your paint.

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Model Master used to be my "go to" line of enamels, but we all know what happened that that brand.  Since then, I've switched to lacquers.  I would LOVE it if my local hobby shop carried Tamiya lacquers!  They carry boatloads of their acrylic line as well as several other brands, but they're all acrylic.  Regardless, looks like I'll be placing an order for some spray can TS white or some of their white lacquer to run through my airbrush.

 

Thank you for reminding me about the Testors dull & gloss coats and their yellowing problem.  I have a bottle of their dull coat sitting on my bench.  I've had it for years, but have never used it.  Looks like I'll just go ahead and pitch it tonight.

 

Almost forgot to ask...I've heard that this kit needs a bit of putty.  I like to apply a primer coat whenever I use putty on a model.  I'm kind of thinking of using the Tamiya grey primer that I have in a rattle can.  I figured having a grey undercoat will help me ensure that I'm evenly applying the white top coat.  Do you think this is a good idea or should I go with a white primer?

 

Okay, just thought of ANOTHER question.  I've heard people use a flat base coat before applying a gloss top color.  I think it's supposed to keep the gloss paint from "pulling away" from edges and corners.  Is there any truth to this?

Edited by echolmberg
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I think a grey or dark primer for your clean up phase is the right idea, chase down all of your seams, then when you are locked in and your model is right, shoot a white primer, Tamiya white ultra fine from the rattle can usually is good although these days I paint with gunze primers mainly.  I do not know the answer to your question regarding paint lifting or pulling away.  Not really an experience I am aware of.  Primer should give your paint something to bite into.  I would think that if paint is pulling away from a corner it is because there is not primer there and some grease oil or something like that that essentially repels the paint.  

 

A colored or even grey primer can leave you chasing grey with your color coats. 

 

As to getting Tamiya Lacquer, I don:t have a local hobby shop so I have to mail order, sprue brothers and others all have those paint colors.  My nearest worthwhile hobby shop is over 2 hours away so hobby shops are something I go to once or twice a year.  

 

Something to watch, I think I ordered one time Tamiya insignia TS white and it has a very interested thing tone, I do not know if that is available in the LP range yet.  Decanting is easy, in my opinion and works great if you need to.  I think in the LP bottles they have the standards flat and gloss white.  Do not get racing white, that has a yellow tone.  That paint is for 1960s race cars that were painted in off white to show up on black and white television.

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Hello Eric

 

Like you, I have little experience with large areas of white, but this is the little I know.

 

  • I have a model with all the undersides painted with Tamiya acrylic XF-2 more than ten years ago, and still no yellowing.
  • White paint doesn't cover as well as other colors, so it shows what's underneath; this is good for pre-shading but not so much if you want a homogenous finish, in which case you have to apply heavier coats.
  • The pigments tend to be coarser, leaving some texture that is exacerbated if you apply heavy coats; this is just my impression.
  • Airbrushing over an aluminum or similar metallic color base allows you to get a nice bright white color with fewer coats.

 

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Another thing that might help the opacity is to use a base of, or mix in to your paint, white acrylic ink. Artist acrylic inks (like Daler-Rowney FW Inks) are highly pigmented, but with superfine pigments - miniature painters use them straight or mix them into traditional acrylic paints to increase opacity or saturation. You can even airbrush them.

 

It's black (white?) magic - I airbrushed the white D-R FW to create a zenithal lighting map on some D&D minis for the kiddos and it is amazing how well it covers while being so thin. You can also hand brush it and it is equally amazing for knobs and other cockpit details.Yellow ink worked similar wonders for yellow Vallejo paint coverage on another project.

 

Look up some videos from miniature painters and how they use inks, it might be worth a try as a first base layer on top of your primer so the white overcoat has less color to try and hide. It's pretty easy to find in art supply stores or on the 'zon - should be $5-$8/bottle. I tried one color of a different brand (Liquitex?) and found it inferior to the D-R inks and chucked it.

 

HTH - the above 2 examples are the only times I've tried inks, so no guarantees, but there is a huge mini painting community that loves them ...

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I wanted to thank everyone for the hints, tips and really good info.  Everything will be taken to heart and I am going to be looking into all the points that were made.

 

I came across one article where someone had used auto paint on their model.  I wonder if anyone here has done that and if it's any better, worse or simply the same as using our usual model paints.

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I've been using Duplicolor auto paint for my white priming.  Because white is such a pain to cover as it uses so much, I was looking for a slightly cheaper alternative while still getting high quality results.  It sprays very fine, and dries like other lacquer model paints.   I don't use it for a full coat, but to get the base built up and then covered with another white.  So far, so good, i think I'll keep using it.

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Anytime I’ve needed to achieve a Gloss White finish, I’ve always put down two light coats of Matt White first with a light rub down(4000 grit), between coats. Matt paint seems to have a better opaqueness to it. This is followed by one light coat of Gloss White, with a light rub down(6000 grit), then finished off with a slightly heavier coat of Gloss White. Once the decals are on a couple of light coats of a clear Satin finish to seal everything in, remember you’re not trying to achieve a mirror finish just enough sheen to differentiate from a Matt finish. 

 

My current choice of clear coat is a 2:1 mix of Revell Enamel Gloss Clear to Revell Enamel Matt Clear.

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I am NO expert by ANY measure, but  I can tell you this...in my experience, a white primer is a great idea.  I have had great success with using Stynylrez white primer under white paint.  Or even better, under yellow paint, if you need to paint yellow.  My experience with anything darker than white primer under white or yellow paint is a bad idea.  I don't have near enough experience to address your question about white paint yellowing over time, but I can tell you that white Stynylrez under white Mr. Color Aqueous or Lacquer paints, or white Tamiya XF-2, works like magic.  Granted, seeing defects in your filling of seams is much harder than using grey primer, but you could always use grey for a first pass of primer, followed by white primer.  

 

My thought on gloss...you don't need to use gloss white paint.  You can put a clear gloss or satin finish over a flat white of you don't want to end up with ha flat white, and that works great as well.  Again, just my experience.  And I  agree with scotthldr about gloss white seeming to cover less well than flat white.  I can't say if that is objectively true or not, but it seems to be.

 

But, I cannot recommend a white primer highly enough!

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Hi,

I have built this kit myself many years ago and white color was of course one of the issues I was struggling with. Being more experienced nowadays, my approach would be as follows (I prefer working with Gunze lacquers, sprayed by airbrush of course):

- Once the construction and puttying is finished, I would use Gunze black (yes, black) 1500 surfacer as a primer. Once properly thinned, it provides nice and smooth satin finish.

- For white, I would use Gunze GX 1 gloss white paint. Testing number of lacquers, this one provides most satisfactory results. It is intended for automotive modellers, it has good opacity (better that regular Gunze gloss white from C line IMHO), dries to a solid glossy finish that can be sanded and polished. Several thin coats should deliver very nice gloss finish.

Using black primer sounds strange, but I always use black under white surfaces. Black Gunze surfacer has perfect opacity, so is able to blend plastic, putty or whatever to uniform color without the need of using number of layers (which would be the case of a white Surfacer for example). Spraying white over black primer gives you a perfect control over the layers and you will be surprised how easily the white covers the black underneath. The same combination is suggested by number of modellers (and this is where I have learned it). I am using this approach in all cases when I need a white finish, including wheel wells, weapons etc.

Good luck with your build!

Tomas

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As to the yellowing, I have no personal experience, but one option could be using again Gunze GX line for a final coat - in this case GX112 Super Clear III UV Cut Gloss. This line of finishes should have UV protection added to the paint (they do the Flat finish as well GX114).

Tomas

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I like Halfords primer myself.
Its a good solid white. It can be sanded smooth with some wet n dry to take the edge off it and then any top coat can cover it with a lovely sheen.

 

The AMT/Italeri kit has a lot of fill n file work to do. I just use halfords primer grey for that as its a quick hit and in a warm room you dont have more than a hour or so to wait before you can get to work on it.

 

Its quite an impressive beastie when its done. I remember doing it when AMT released it all those years ago, I was quite happy with mine.

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I’ve got 5 1/32 F-16 Thunderbirds that are probably going on 8 years now if not more.  No yellowing  

I used Tamiya white spray bomb primer and then their gloss white in spray can. 
As mentioned above, Duplicolor has a white lacquer primer at auto parts stores that works great. 

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9 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

I’ve got 5 1/32 F-16 Thunderbirds that are probably going on 8 years now if not more.  No yellowing  

I used Tamiya white spray bomb primer and then their gloss white in spray can. 
As mentioned above, Duplicolor has a white lacquer primer at auto parts stores that works great. 

Actually yeah Ill roll with you on that.
Tamiya white spray paint.

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I love all the info and relaying of personal experiences.  Thank you!  Yesterday I went out and bought some Tamiya gloss white spray paint and I'm gonna give that a try.  I'm definitely going to lay down a primer first.  I'm going to try a sample section (eg. underside of a wing) and see how well it goes.  If it looks good in spite of my bumbling, then I'll stick with the Tamiya gloss white.  If it doesn't work well for me, then I'll try another paint brand.  

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My experience with white is that it has a tendency to pool in crevices, so be prepared to apply several coats.  I, too, have had great success with Tamiya white primer.  Don't spray too close or you'll flood the surface.   But not too far or it will dry up before touching the model and it will dry rough.  Just mist it on first sort of and let each coat dry thoroughly before re-spraying.   I like to wait 5 min or so before re-coating.  The first couple coats have almost no coverage but you'll be surprised how the next coats build up nicely.  I like Tamiya primer, too, in that the shade is almost scale-like -- it's not super/bleached white.    Lately, too, I try to decant it from the can -- collect it into a smaller bottle so you can airbrush it on for better control.

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FWIW, I had no idea Revell had a paint line.  🤡

 

I’ve recently gone to lacquers and I’m loving it.  I loved the look of my old Testors Model Master gloss, but it took forever to dry.  I’d have to spray one color and let it sit a week before handling if I didn’t want finger prints.  Started using a hardener but it still took a long time. 

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Since my topic is so closely related, i will ask here instead of starting a new topic. I want to steal the contents inside my Tamiya acrylic white spray can and use it with my airbrush instead. Never tried this before but i`ve read about people doing this. I believe the term is decanting? ..a term originating from the fine wine department?! ..where you soak up the upper layers of the liquid. I don`t know if the Tamiya cans use a liquid propellant so not really sure if i need to go for the upper "sediment" or use all of the contents in the can. Will my airbrush deliver a finer atomization than the Tamiya spray can? I just feel spraying directly is a little overkill and not enough control.

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